Trust Counts... A Note from SatelliteGuys Founder Scott Greczkowski

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microbeta said:
No one said "Hey, the SatGuys suck so we're going to exclude them" AAMOF, it's pretty arrogant to think there is a conscious decision to exclude anyone.
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Actually they did, and I have that in writing.

At first I thought it was pretty cool that there were Satellite Guys members involved. Now I'm not so sure.

Mike
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Actually for the last few tests there have been a few SatelliteGuys members in them, we just havent said anything. The names you might see at other sites may not actually who you think they are. For example when I go to the other site, I use Logmein.com to login to DBStalk from a friends spare PC so when I access the site I am actually coming in from Chicago. :)

Funny how it all works. :)
 
microbeta said:
I'm not saying that's the sole criteria because I'm not in that loop but it is one of the important ones. That means that they pick for those that post in issues threads...mostly the CE issues threads.

It isn't meant to be exclusionary but I can understand how DirecTV would be limiting the field for their own ease of decision making...good or bad, it is what it is. Since Earl was instrumental in setting up the CE program most of the testing was done at DBSTalk. Not because their any better than anyone else but because the business side of DirecTV has to limit exposure until their products are ready.

I'll never understand how this situation has morphed into them vs. us; we're being excluded on purpose; they're out to get us.

No one said "Hey, the SatGuys suck so we're going to exclude them" AAMOF, it's pretty arrogant to think there is a conscious decision to exclude anyone.

At first I thought it was pretty cool that there were Satellite Guys members involved. Now I'm not so sure.

Mike
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Mike I see where your coming from, but the thing that got us all fired up was the fact that Directv Said they would work with us. We have done everything that directv has asked. Things were all peachy until Earl left and as soon as Earl left, In his exiting comments that DBS Talk would be the official home to the CE process. That in part with the release notes just stopping and other things, we started to put two and two together. When the Beta test of the streaming software came up we asked Directv to allow our members into this test as they have the same ability to do what has been going on there. We in turn got the cold shoulder from both places instead of working with us as we asked.

Ill tell you the truth, they over there are probably scared that if we got the program over here and it caught on and actually ended up surpassing their program, they would be done. We all know that everyone laughs at their dish network side as their dish network moderators cant pull there heads out of their asses. We also understand that each site has its fan boys, hell look at all the fan boys that came out of the wood work just to post in this thread and troll around. All we asked was for equal access to betas and information. Doing so, I think allot of people who are afraid to post and disagree with the information over there as it will immediately get closed or hard deleted.

Finally, how can you accurately report if directv is modifying what your reporting. While some has said that they are looking at grammatical and technical stuff. To me it says that Directv cant trust DBS Talk if they are modifying their stuff. These guys are so far up D*'s butt that they cant even realize it, so their skew is viewed. That's the wonderful thing about us is our skew is not viewed as we try to remain and stay independent. Thats why we have CEO's wanting to talk to our member's because we give it to them like how it is. For those who say that were censoring members about the Charlie chat thing. Our members were fully aware when they signed up and showed up that the request was not to post anything on the Internet. It was what was agreed too and nobody objected. In that response they got to see the full uncensored Charlie. For those who wanted to know what was said, well you should have went. I'm sorry to those who couldn't of gone and wants to know what went on. Its just the nature of the beast.

Also, in response to directv wanting people who can post and give them details on what the hell is going on. Its obviously not working over there because I'm still getting audio dropouts on my HDMI port on my HR20-700 as I have been reporting for over 6 months now. Also, if they are ignoring new members then that is going to turn off any future beta testers. I know were willing to work with directv they just need to realize that were not their enemy. We want to report on their products and be just as excited with their products as we are with dish's products. Instead of fighting, let us take the ball and run with it. You might be surprised where we take this ball. After all it can do nothing but good for Directv, They just don't know.
 
Bob, your post makes it sound like BSTalk is telling D* how to run their CE program. D* will decide where it's centered and who's involved. If they told SatGuys they'd be involved and now they're not, so what ? They changed their mind.... You're making it sound like the people at BSTalk (or Earl) told D* not to include SatGuys. I hope you don't believe that.
 
goaliebob99 said:
.....Ill tell you the truth, they over there are probably scared that if we got the program over here and it caught on and actually ended up surpassing their program, they would be done. We all know that everyone laughs at their dish network side as their dish network moderators cant pull there heads out of their asses. We also understand that each site has its fan boys, hell look at all the fan boys that came out of the wood work just to post in this thread and troll around. All we asked was for equal access to betas and information. Doing so, I think allot of people who are afraid to post and disagree with the information over there as it will immediately get closed or hard deleted.
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I'm sorry.....I have to repsond to this.

With all do respect....with comments like this....why would you think DirecTV would want to work w/ a site that tolerates comments like that. It is toatlly disrespectful and unprofessional. And yes, DBStalk would not tolerate posts like yours. It really makes this site look like a bunch of whiners. For whatever reason(s) DirecTV decided to scale back the info or not give equal access....it would seem this is not the place for those type of comments for what SG and you guys are trying to accomplish here. I think it really hurts this site to see comments like that really and doesn't lend much credit for which you seek.
 
goaliebob99 said:
Mike I see where your coming from, but the thing that got us all fired up was the fact that Directv Said they would work with us. We have done everything that directv has asked. Things were all peachy until Earl left and as soon as Earl left, In his exiting comments that DBS Talk would be the official home to the CE process. That in part with the release notes just stopping and other things, we started to put two and two together. When the Beta test of the streaming software came up we asked Directv to allow our members into this test as they have the same ability to do what has been going on there. We in turn got the cold shoulder from both places instead of working with us as we asked.

Ill tell you the truth, they over there are probably scared that if we got the program over here and it caught on and actually ended up surpassing their program, they would be done. We all know that everyone laughs at their dish network side as their dish network moderators cant pull there heads out of their asses. We also understand that each site has its fan boys, hell look at all the fan boys that came out of the wood work just to post in this thread and troll around. All we asked was for equal access to betas and information. Doing so, I think allot of people who are afraid to post and disagree with the information over there as it will immediately get closed or hard deleted.

Finally, how can you accurately report if directv is modifying what your reporting. While some has said that they are looking at grammatical and technical stuff. To me it says that Directv cant trust DBS Talk if they are modifying their stuff. These guys are so far up D*'s butt that they cant even realize it, so their skew is viewed. That's the wonderful thing about us is our skew is not viewed as we try to remain and stay independent. Thats why we have CEO's wanting to talk to our member's because we give it to them like how it is. For those who say that were censoring members about the Charlie chat thing. Our members were fully aware when they signed up and showed up that the request was not to post anything on the Internet. It was what was agreed too and nobody objected. In that response they got to see the full uncensored Charlie. For those who wanted to know what was said, well you should have went. I'm sorry to those who couldn't of gone and wants to know what went on. Its just the nature of the beast.

Also, in response to directv wanting people who can post and give them details on what the hell is going on. Its obviously not working over there because I'm still getting audio dropouts on my HDMI port on my HR20-700 as I have been reporting for over 6 months now. Also, if they are ignoring new members then that is going to turn off any future beta testers. I know were willing to work with directv they just need to realize that were not their enemy. We want to report on their products and be just as excited with their products as we are with dish's products. Instead of fighting, let us take the ball and run with it. You might be surprised where we take this ball. After all it can do nothing but good for Directv, They just don't know.
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I hear ya, I really do. I understand the frustration but if you sidestep the whole field test process what do you expect DirecTV to do?

When someone agrees to field test a component, they also agree not to discuss it until DirecTV says so. It's clearly spelled out in the invitation. Do you really think by ignoring that request you can get into DirecTV's good graces.

One could argue that all you've done is shoot yourselves in the foot and potentially closed the door on any involvement in the future. As I've said before, you're only entitled to what you earn.

What Earl understood, and what seems to be lost on some, was that diplomacy leads to progress. It seems people want to believe in conspiracies.

However, these are forums, not journalistic media. There are no investigative reporters, no scandals to be exposed. DBSTalk and Satellite Guys are the WWW's version of the BBS...not Woodward & Bernstein on the job(hope I spelled their names right).

These are forums, not businesses. True there are costs involved that require funding through ads and subscriptions but since the satellite service providers are the hook to draw people in...Biting the hand that feeds you could cause you to starve.

Riddle me this...If you were DirecTV what would you do in this situation? Mind you, not what you think they should do or what you want them to do. What would you do in their shoes if one site ignores your requests and the other is willing to work with you?

IMHO, Satellite Guys needs to see the big picture. Stomping on toes and crying conspiracy is not the way to get what you want. I hate to be negative but from my perspective this is how it appears from the outside. Do you think DirecTV is going to see any of this from the outside or from the inside?

Mike
 
A few things if I may...

First off a number of people have PMed me asking why I want to take over the CE Program from DBStalk. The answer is I DONT.

I don't know if you have ever taken part in any of the CE's but there is a LOT of work that goes into them, and to be quite frank the folks at DBStalk do a great job of running the program. Folks like Tom and Doug put a lot of effort into things and it really does show. Me personally I don't think I could handle the CE program.

If I don't want to take it over then what do I want? I just want SatelliteGuys members to be part of the CE Process without having to be a DBSTalk member. Honestly thats really it.

I don't have a problem sending folks for DBSTalks chat room for CE chats as that does not require that you be registered over there. In fact I would go as far to say I would even post a link to it and publicize it. I don't think thats a bad thing.

Secondly there were a lot of promises made at CES to us, and we have done everything that has been asked of us, but we have not received anything which we were told we were going to get. When the release notes stopped coming in on the CE's that is when I blew my fuse.

We are not bad guys only folks trying to help others learn about this amazing technology.

If I got to go directly to meet with Chase Carey and yell from he top of the highest hill to get it done then is something that I will do, if there is one thing I am good at (besides being a pain in the ass) is being loud.

Finally to all those who registered here in the last 24 hours just to disagree with me or to scold us for posting the SWM lnb, WELCOME to SatelliteGuys. At other sites if you disagreed with the staff your message would be deleted and you would probably be banned. I actually enjoy hearing your feedback even if you don't agree with me. Its this attitude of myself and our staff that has made SatelliteGuys so great. While your here we could use your help and expertise, so if you see something you can help out with please jump in with both feet.

Finally remember we are all users helping users. SatelliteGuys is proud to be Americas Largest Satellite Information site. And we thank everyone for their support as we continue to push ahead to try being ever better then we are now. :)
 
HDTVsportasfan said:
I'm sorry.....I have to repsond to this.

With all do respect....with comments like this....why would you think DirecTV would want to work w/ a site that tolerates comments like that. It is toatlly disrespectful and unprofessional. And yes, DBStalk would not tolerate posts like yours. It really makes this site look like a bunch of whiners. For whatever reason(s) DirecTV decided to scale back the info or not give equal access....it would seem this is not the place for those type of comments for what SG and you guys are trying to accomplish here. I think it really hurts this site to see comments like that really and doesn't lend much credit for which you seek.
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Why beat around the bush. There is nothing unprofessional about it as its my unbiased opinion. It sounds like the truth hurts. If its so unprofessional then there must be some truth to it. Your right that DBSTALK would not tolerate posts like this as they would have banned me 10 times over and try to silence me because I don't agree with there views. Like its been pointed out. They will ban you because they don't agree with your opposing views which is against the values this country was founded on. Why silence it? Why not work together and compromise how hard is that.
 
Don't beat around the bush I wouldn't expect anything less. But there are certainly better ways to articulate and present your position without the name calling. No....it's not the so called truth that's makes it unprofessional. I am not a moderator at DBStalk, so I cannot and should not have brought up the "banning". However, IMHO they do allow disagreements...plenty of them, but not in the manner in which you presented it. Im sure the values of this country were not established in the tone and the insulting manner that you have demonstrated.
 
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If I may, I would like to clarify one part of the puzzle a little bit.

Just before Earl interviewed to work for DIRECTV, DIRECTV was also making changes as who sends out release notes. Companies are living things and some things shifted. Also, Earl was grooming the moderators to share the work load from the very day I was asked to join the DBStalk staff. We didn't want single points of information flow that could create bottlenecks. Even so, a very human error sneaked in.

As Earl left, I very well should have noted that Satelliteguys was no longer included on the release notes. My bad. Masterdeals, DIRECTV, and I worked together to quickly solve the underlying problems as a team. The result is that last week both sites had the release notes in a timely fashion; I expect that will continue.

As an example, and as many of you likely know, I have posted release notes and special announcements here, when I wasn't sure if Masterdeals could get to them--I know he too has a life. :)

So I apologize that I did not notice SatelliteGuys was not getting release notes for a short time. I hope you can believe what I believe; that there was no malice intended but rather an honest mistake.

Lastly I'm happy to work with Masterdeals and DIRECTV. Together we are working to further improve the reliability of communications.

Cheers,
Tom Robertson
 
microbeta said:
When someone agrees to field test a component, they also agree not to discuss it until DirecTV says so. It's clearly spelled out in the invitation. Do you really think by ignoring that request you can get into DirecTV's good graces.
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Mike,

The thing with the field test how do they know that Master Deals didnt go out and buy one on the market and then did a review on it. The LNB was readly available on the market so the field test should have been over. IF directv wasnt ready then they shouldnt have released it to the market for open selling. If they were so worried then it shouldnt have been released. I can tell you from past experance from things like this generally once the product has been released to market then the feild test is over. Its crazy to harm one for doing a review on their products and promote their products as over 1/2 million people per day see the reviews. Alot of people choose to have D* from what they have learned here. Why not turn it into a positive and work with us as it would ultimatley benifit them. Thats my thing.
 
HDTVsportasfan said:
Don't beat around the bush I wouldn't expect anything less. But there are certainly better ways to articulate and present your position without the name calling. No....it's not the so called truth that's makes it unprofessional. I am not a moderator at DBStalk, so I cannot and should not have brought up the "banning". However, IMHO they do allow disagreements...plenty of them, but not in the manner in which you presented it. Im sure the values of this country were not established in the tone and the name calling that you have demonstrated.
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Im sorry but where did I call anyone a name?
 
HDTVsportasfan said:
You are correct. My apologies. I will edit my post. I guess "name calling" could be replaced w/ insults.
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Im sorry I dont see where I insulted anybody. If what im saying is hitting home then maybe you need to take a step back and look. I dont know if any of you have seen the Steve Wilco's show. We are one alike... Our philisophy is the same. If you have seen his show then you know what im talking about as im a fan of moron free tv as some people just dont get it.
 
What I truly don't understand is ... what's the big deal? We're talking about an LNB with SWM capablity. Why would this need to be reviewed and who cares if it is a "premiere" "First Look" or "Exclusive"...?? It is just an LNB!
 
mikew said:
What I truly don't understand is ... what's the big deal? We're talking about an LNB with SWM capablity. Why would this need to be reviewed and who cares if it is a "premiere" "First Look" or "Exclusive"...?? It is just an LNB!
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Thats the same thing we have been saying.. But appearently it was a big deal for others.
 
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