Review of Manhattan RS-1933

[Scott Greczkowski]

Here are Jeff and Mike's comments on the upcoming Firmware update

http://uddle.com/sattalk/sattalk%2008-17-11.mp3

Tune in at the 108 min mark.

I guess we are the high end guy.

And yes we will happily put the firmware up here for download to anyone who wants it. We are happy to help out where we can.

 

[brentb636]

My take on the discussion of the new firmware is that there will be various modules that CAN be loaded , to accomplish different configurations. That's pretty ambitious. It reminds me of Novell's modular VLM architecture of their networking client. Hope this works out and isn't too big a bite to take on.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I got to be honest, I liked the sounds of it.

 

[mr3p]

"we've been getting some people that are rattling up the feathers a little bit"

any idea who he might be referring to?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

"we've been getting some people that are rattling up the feathers a little bit"

any idea who he might be referring to?

No idea... :

 

[brentb636]

"we've been getting some people that are rattling up the feathers a little bit"

any idea who he might be referring to?

I've heard tell of some riff-raff around, but I aint seen 'em myself. !

 

[skysurfer]

Scott, How can you compare the Manhattan to a cheaper receiver like the Openbox when you do not have an Openbox to compare it to? Buy one of those ninety dollar Openboxes so you can see the difference first hand instead of second or third party. GregH

I'll say it - I can' t find anything worth a premium _yet_ between the Openbox S10 and the Manhattan and I own both! I got the Openbox S10 to check it out and loan it to a friend who is still stuck in the DVB dark ages (DVB-S SD receiver only) while I keep the manhattan.

The only differences on the Manhattan I can find so far are lack of ethernet port, the receiver is dolby-licensed, and the power plug is American instead of European. Lookign through the vent holes, the insides look different to me but I don't know if that is a good or bad thing. I'm hoping the Manhattan didn't cut corners with the power supply so if it dies in the Openbox in a year or so, it will last 2-3 years in the Manhattan because it's hopefully better quality. EDIT: Manhattan also has been cloned yet!

The Openbox came the day before the manhattan so I played with it that night. Manhattan came the next day and the learning curve was ZERO because the GUI and options are all very similar - I don't see much difference in what the two boxes can do differently from each other. I haven't tried USALS motor/diseqc switches thing but it's my undestanding from this thread that fixes to that in the Manhattan are coming so it's too early to call USALS motor and diseqc switch performance a big difference.

I got sidetracked this week from doing my blind scan, weak signal, and high datarate tests, so I don't know if both boxes are similar in that or if there is one receiver that has the advantage over the other. All I checked out so far was the weak signal on Manhattan (locked signal with Q14 and it was occasionally blocky as expected for such a weak locked signal) and I still need to put Openbox on it to see how it performs compared to the Manhattan. I did see a H264 signal with the Manhattan that looked like bad internet streaming with a Q70 signal -- lots of bursts of video and freezeups -- so I don't know if the Manhattan has issues or if the Openbox does the same, another thing I have to check out in the performance part of my testing. I'll post more here when I get some of the tests done.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Last night I talked to Jeff and learned a lot from him, and believe it or not we had a different opinion of what a FTA Hobbiest is. My definition was what describes most of our regular FTA posters, people who love to scan the skies, while his was people who want a box to pick up a speciffic channel or groups of channels such as people who want to watch TV from their homelands. I got to be honest, I never really considered thos folks to be FTA hobbiests, but I guess they are. This box fits that niche now and does it well.

Jeff told me about some of his plans and ideas on how to support both types of hobbiests and while I can't talk about them here now, I will say it sounds like a solid plan and one that I am excited about.

Jeff even went out of his way expressing his fustrations getting this box to the market including lack of feedback he got from a mojority of the beta tester whos only feedback was "Its good I like it"

Jeff LIKES feedback especially on how he can make his box better.

I think he is listening and is really taking our comments to heart. He think he is learning from us and thats a good thing. And I think now he understands my definition of a FTA Hobbiest compaired to his and thats a very big thing.

So if you have any thoughts or ideas or comments not review related PLEASE start some new Manhattan threads so that Jeff and others can see what you want.

In addition we will be hosting all firmware updates here at SatelliteGuys as they are released. I want to make SatelliteGuys your place to learn and expand on what the Manhattan 1933 can do.

 

[GenBap]

Thanks Scott. The difference in definition is significant. My neighbor as a single dish and receiver (GloryStar) for Adventist programming. She knows nothing about either her receiver or her dish - she did not install it and to be frank does not care as long as it works. If if does not she calls an installer. I do not have any idea how she could be called a "hobbyist" and I am certain she would not define herself as such. She is just like any other dish or direct customer who simply desired a niche set of channels. She is a consumer not a hobbyist.

While I do not have a dish farm, I do have a motor and use a switch and may add another dish this fall. I scan channels for feeds and scan the internet to find sports feeds (watched two NFL games last night). I have a BUD but started out with a 1 meter dish. I am not even sure I qualify as a hobbyist since I mostly watch rather than play with equipment, but yet I think many would consider me a hobbyist.

My concern is that Manhattan my miss the mark on their marketing with their definition of hobbyist. I think targeting niche groups (or perhaps more specifically their installers) with a versatile enough box to push satellite feeds to the end market is an excellent idea. But my neighbor would have never heard about them. If fact the only reason she heard of GloryStar is because we both used Angel and I told her about it when they switched to the internet. Believing Jeff to be a smart guy who knows what he is doing, I assume that means he is ultimately producing this box for the installer market since that is where the consumer will ultimately get their information. Of course that means I will still wait and see how this box develops for the hobbyist like myself - should be an interesting ride.

 

[mr3p]

At the risk of admitting I know little about Glorystar and/or other religious programming, how much of it is S2 or HD? There are some spanish FTA channels/feeds which I occasionally watch which are HD and/or S2 but from my recollection, most of the ethnic channels are SD, and many of them are barely that. I guess I'm just trying to better understand if the RS-1933 with lots of potential isn't really targetted for the "hobbyist," it sure seems to be overkill (and overpriced) for most others. Sorry if this impression offends anyone, thats not my intention but thats just the way it appears.

 

[mikekohl]

I have recently added some updates in the Free To Air section of the Global Communications website.
In addition to Asia-Pacific, North American C, North American Ku, and Atlantic C/Ku band channel charts that specifically show HD channels and whether or not things are MPEG-2 or 4 as well as the DVB-S2 transmissions, we've got details on AC-3 audio.
To top it off, there is now a cross reference of all C and Ku-band religious channels (I count over 250 video and audio signals between 139 West and 30 West). Those that want to cross reference foreign language channels and where they are coming from also have a C-band list with over 600 signals, and the Ku-band list topping out past 400.
Go to www.global-cm.net and click on the Free To Air link.

 

[stanleyjohn]

I'm glad Scott and Jeff have worked around differences.I see FTA here at satilliteguys as like a shortwave radio hobby!always looking for something new to log and better ways to get a better signal.The way Jeff has it is like making FTA like regular sat or cable tv!just give me something to watch and a easy way to do it.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

At the risk of admitting I know little about Glorystar and/or other religious programming, how much of it is S2 or HD? There are some spanish FTA channels/feeds which I occasionally watch which are HD and/or S2 but from my recollection, most of the ethnic channels are SD, and many of them are barely that. I guess I'm just trying to better understand if the RS-1933 with lots of potential isn't really targetted for the "hobbyist," it sure seems to be overkill (and overpriced) for most others. Sorry if this impression offends anyone, thats not my intention but thats just the way it appears.

I may be wrong on this but I "believe" that the unit has S2 because the chipset they chose also supported it, so S2 support was like a bonus.

 

[skysurfer]

In addition to Asia-Pacific, North American C, North American Ku, and Atlantic C/Ku band channel charts that specifically show HD channels and whether or not things are MPEG-2 or 4 as well as the DVB-S2 transmissions, we've got details on AC-3 audio.
.

It'd be nice if the Manhattan could tell us that instead of having to look it up on a chart (or do transport stream analysis on the signal). I'm watching a football game in HD and I"m curious if it's 720p or 1080i transmission. The manhattan can't tell me that (at least that I can find) so I"ll be analyzing the transport stream now at halftime.

I know the Openbox on the first info button push tells you the video resolution, what the video compression being used is, what the audio compression being used is. I miss having that in the Manhattan but I trust that could be added in the future because if at least that basic of info can be done in the openbox, it could be done in the Manhattan. I don't know if the firmware supports being able to tell you dvb-s/dvb-s2 and what FEC and modulation, pilot, etc. is used so I don't know if that detailed of info will ever be reported on a manhattan screen.

 

[woofy]

It'd be nice if the Manhattan could tell us that instead of having to look it up on a chart (or do transport stream analysis on the signal). I'm watching a football game in HD and I"m curious if it's 720p or 1080i transmission. The manhattan can't tell me that (at least that I can find) so I"ll be analyzing the transport stream now at halftime.

I know the Openbox on the first info button push tells you the video resolution, what the video compression being used is, what the audio compression being used is. I miss having that in the Manhattan but I trust that could be added in the future because if at least that basic of info can be done in the openbox, it could be done in the Manhattan. I don't know if the firmware supports being able to tell you dvb-s/dvb-s2 and what FEC and modulation, pilot, etc. is used so I don't know if that detailed of info will ever be reported on a manhattan screen.

You mean does the hardware supports it? it does.

All these features will be implemented..

 

[Jeff S.]

In reply too you all your comments and suggestions, I greatly appreciate your input. We have been working hard on testing new firmware and have had a couple hick-ups and we need to refine the sw before release.

The suggestion with having HD resolution, S2 and FEC information. Even though I don’t like it, this will be added. My question is where to put it. Do you want it on the channel bar, or on the info (i) button. I hope the owners of the Manhattan can provide their input on this. All of these updates will be given to Iceberg and he will test and provide the updates too Scott on what he accepts. A unit will be dispatched to him for his personal testing. We just wanted to give him the updates first before this happens.

In regards to marketing. I always thought that sales should go through the dealers. Especially if we want to grow our industry. But other companies see this differently by giving away the product to the market, just because they can. I live by the code “actions create reactions”. By getting into a price war in what two companies in this industry are doing. They provide no margin for the dealer to support their local consumer. These people by giving the product away and selling more, still gives makes them less profit. Then they complain to me there is no money in this industry. Then the comment comes that they will take away sales from other companies that want to come into the industry. So folks if other companies go away, what options will you have?

That is why I’m continuing to support FreeDBS. While they have issues (don’t we all in today’s society), they are still trying hard to bring this to market. I have just received another email from them explaining the issues and folks, there is work to do. People in the programming segment are needed to move this forward after one of the key people left, which put a hole in this segment of their business plan. If anyone is interest and has experience in this area. I’m forming a group of people to help so just one person doesn’t have to do all the heavy lifting. Of course there is no money involved in this, but I think we can make this programming ours, the FTA community. It is a sound model and we could see more and more programming coming in the market if this succeeds.

I hope we can work together to move this forward. Email me @ jeff.schumann@manhattan-digital.net

I cannot count how many times people want to watch North America programming and purchase a system. There is not allot of programming up there. This could be the growth this industry needs. I hope you understand what is at stake here!

In regards to what is called a hobbyist, I think we are fit in this category in some way. A comment from an individual on a forum site, who does not really watch the program, but is more interested in the way the program is delivered. So I guess we all have our own way of doing things and what is important to you. I hope people will use these features, not just for the sake of just having them.

I welcome your questions, concern and input. I thank you for your support.

Sincerely,

Jeff Schumann
Manhattan-digital

 

[brentb636]

"The suggestion with having HD resolution, S2 and FEC information. Even though I don’t like it, this will be added. My question is where to put it. Do you want it on the channel bar, or on the info (i) button. I hope the owners of the Manhattan can provide their input on this. All of these updates will be given to Iceberg and he will test and provide the updates too Scott on what he accepts. A unit will be dispatched to him for his personal testing. We just wanted to give him the updates first before this happens. " As the owner of 2 Manhattan receivers, I vote for multiple pages under the info button, for the information that you mention. Might be easier on the programmer that way, too, not having to edit existing pages that work.

 

[DK_Sat]

The Manhattan receiver price is way off the FTA hobbyist range, when there biggest competition is the OpenBox that is selling for half the price with the same features.

 

[brentb636]

The Manhattan receiver price is way off the FTA hobbyist range, when there biggest competition is the OpenBox that is selling for half the price with the same features.

You might change your mind if you needed two receivers in the same room, responding to different remotes . The theory, at least, is that the Manhattan will surpass the Openbox in functionality at some point. Right now , it works , but not worth the premium price. I disagree, however, in evaluating everything by the lowest priced unit on the market . That's not going to get anyone to expend extra effort to support OUR needs.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

The only thing that the Manhattan does which the openbox does not do (or so I am told) is manual PID entry.

I have not tried this myself though so YMMV.