Review of Manhattan RS-1933

I'm starting to disagree with that statement that you and others make. I am feeling the clock is only as accurate as the uplinker you are watching since it seems that clock (at least the GMT part of it) is set based on the time feature in the uplinked signal. My manhattan clock was correct (GMT time from uplinker plus my GMT offset) and then I watched a feed and my clock got off. I watched another feed and my clock is back to accurate. It appears an occasional uplinker doesn't uplink enough (or doesn't care) to have the time part of their uplink signal correct so it can set your clock wrong while many seem to have accurate time portion of their uplink.
Once your clock is accurate, set it to GMT "OFF", and it should ignore the sat stream time. It should stay the same. Probably is still, though, that a hard power down will lose the time and you'll have to reset it. Still it's better than the Openbox series. :) [edit] Even my desktop PC clock is not actually accurate, unless I automatically synch it daily with a time server. I guess it might be MORE accurate to say that the Manhattan clock is more suitable for use in PVR operations than the Solomend 800 clock. Certainly the Manhattan does not contain a battery backed RTC chip. [/edit] :)
 
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Once your clock is accurate, set it to GMT "OFF", and it should ignore the sat stream time. It should stay the same. />

yep, looks like that will do it. When I turned GMT off, the GMT offset setting became unavailable - btw, I had to set the date and time towards the bottom of that options screen.

Turning GMT to off makes me think the time as inputted will stay permanent until changed or one can keep GMT on and set your timezone offset from GMT if you want the time to be set by the satellite feed.
 
well I got mine yesterday and after 24 hours of headache I finally got to play with it. Something in my entertainment center is interfering with the remote and I think its my plasma TV. If the unit is in the ent center the remote wont work. If I place it 6-8 inches to the side of the ent center it works fine so I just started playing with it but stumbled upon something.

You can record 2 streams on the same transponder and watch another....as long as its the same TP. I was recording Tuff TV and flipped to RTV to see what it would do. It went there (83W KU). Hit record and it started recording that stream too. Verified both were recording. Stopped both and went to 95W. Recording CCTV News and CCTV4 and can watch CCTV Doc at same time....or something from the hard drive if I want. If you press DVR (or info a couple times) it shows both being recorded. Also if you press stop a popup shows both recordings and you can pick which one to stop...even if you're not on that channel.

If you try to record a 3rd stream it wont do it. It gives you the "02:00" popup on the screen to set how long you want to record. Dont know which stream it does that too though

I know the azbox can record and watch a show from same TP but not record both.

so thats cool.
 
I finally got around to looking at a few things about the Manhattan that I didn't see addressed in other reviews.

My main interest in this receiver was the blind scanning because I got tired of having to do the manual method involving a few steps to figure out Symbol Rates and try them with my DVB-S2 receivers in order to try to find new DVB-S2 signals. Contrary to the denials in some of the Manhattan threads, this receiver at this point is DEFINITELY is not for the hard-core FTA'er but rather for the one who just wants to scan in a group of channels such as the internationals or religious on Galaxy 19 and do the occasional rescan for new channels.

The blind scan function of the receiver is awful. On a fairly light use Ku-band satellite (SatMex 6 Ku), there are 17 known lockable (DVB-S/DVB-S2) signals and the receiver found 14. That is not too bad (82% found) but it's missing a few of the ones with video services.

Where this thing really was poor was a high density, mixed DVB-S/DVB-S2 bird like SatMex 5 C-band. Out of 48 known lockable (DVB-S/DVB-S2) signals, the Manhattan blind scan only found 18 for a found percentage of 38%.

I then tried the dull Galaxy 19 Ku-band sat (dull as in every transponder with a video or audio signal is transponder-wide MCPC) and Manhattan found every single one of the easily lockable signals.

Based on how many have commented about how they like the speed of the blind scan feature, I feel the receiver might have been designed for speed rather than accuracy. I certainly believe that there could be an improvement to the blind scan function at some point since it should be a firmware-based fix and that it will make scans much slower for the benefit of accuracy. That should make the blind scan function more acceptable to a hard-core FTA'er who wants to know with almost a 100% blind scan found percentage EVERYTHING that is out there to be watched or listened to.

Blind scan seems to be best when you have wide signals or narrower signals that have lots of spacing between them. Narrower signals located fairly close together or whose symbol rates are below 3000 seem to be the ones most missed.

Signals with tons of audio services are disappointing with the Manhattan. It's great that the Manhattan will play a lot of those audio signals that my other receivers can't handle due to audio format used or lack of a video carrier with each audio service, but the disappointment comes with the partial memory-writing of those audio channels. On a 100 channel service using one audio service per program, only 60 audio channels were written to memory. If you are looking for a particular audio service that you know exists, you'll have to analyze the transport stream or find the info elsewhere in order to manually define the channel you want if it was not written to memory.

I don't understand why the Manhattan has is a service ID issue with many signals - a few video channels that have good service ID's scan in as "ch-x" with "x" being a number. Almost all of the audio services I looked at also scan in with that generic type of service ID rather than their actual service ID that can be seen in transport analysis of a signal. In the case of the audio, the number in the generic SID seems to correspond to the program number so you have some starting point trying to match up what you've transport analyzed compared to whatever the Manhattan has written to its memory.

Audio services with like 6 or 9 audio channels were written to memory completely (so the partial memory-writing issue seems to be with much larger audio channel signals) but the generic SID issue also occurred.

I did find there might be a 20 channel audio limitation when all the audio carriers are defined for just one program (rather than one audio service per program).

Tuner sensitivity - definitely the best of any receiver I have. I used FSTV as my example since it's only a signal I've previously been able to lock on my 8 or 10 foot dishes and not my 1.2m ku dish. FSTV locked on my Manhattan with a 14% quality on the 1.2m. That's great as it actually locked and surprisingly FSTV played with very little breakup considering how low of quality signal there was. Wondering if it was worth the extra expense over the Openbox S10 to have a sensitive tuner, I found the Openbox's tuner was just as sensitive. No problems locking the FSTV signal using the 1.2m dish, same 14% signal quality, and same fairly stable playback as the Manhattan.

I like the Manhattan's auto-power off mode feature - when a signal goes away such as a news or sports feed and you're not paying attention in order to turn off the box or change to another signal, after some amount of time the Manhattan will turn off the box automatically.

I also like how the Manhattan seems to remember your settings when you tune away or tune back to a signal. Example: When a video service has secondary audio and you hit the AUDIO button on the manhattan to listen to the secondary audio. When you turn off the Manhattan or flip to another channel/satellite and eventually come back to the signal with secondary audio, the secondary audio is still the active audio channel until you hit AUDIO and go back to the primary audio channel of that service.

I did find some weird service where the video was not encrypted yet the "SCRAMBLED" graphic of the OSD popped up over the video. I suspect the audio may be encrypted causing the "SCRAMBLED" OSD graphic and I'll be checking on that through transport stream analysis soon to find out if the audio is encrypted or not.
 
One thing that I find irritating, since I frequently "touchup" my Diseqc 1.2 position, is that going into "motor setting" screen ALWAYS moves the dish to the 1st satellite defined, instead of staying on the currently selected sat. Now I have to hit "exit" and select the satellite that I was on, to touch up it's position. This needs to be worked on, too clunky . :)
 
Where this thing really was poor was a high density, mixed DVB-S/DVB-S2 bird
like SatMex 5 C-band. Out of 48 known lockable (DVB-S/DVB-S2) signals, the
Manhattan blind scan only found 18 for a found percentage of 38%.

Skysurfer, I just read your post so I scanned satmex5...... I scanned in 48 channels. That said, I don't know what firmware you have. The early firmware dated for May has a few refinements that need to be made. A few of us that are testing, have firmware that is being tested at the moment. Many of these issues have been taken care of. Including the motor issue that Brent was talking about. Once we make our reports to Jeff and he authorises the firmware to be posted, then everyone can give "up to date" feedback. The one thing that Jeff wants is feedback! So keep up the good work as there are many different setups out there. I would like to check into the problem you mention about the audio channels. Hand me a sat and TP to go after and I will see if I can replicate your results so they can be reported if they still need to. Thank you for your input. Have a great day!


Note: The reviews aren't really true reviews as the updates and fixes behind the scenes have been comming fast. I have updated three times already, but due to bugs the releases were not spread about. Sorry, but this has been a work in progress. Iceburg should have a thourough review soon as he gets done with his testing. :)
 
Skysurfer, I just read your post so I scanned satmex5...... I scanned in 48 channels. That said, I don't know what firmware you have. The early firmware dated for May has a few refinements that need to be made. />

My review used known lockable signals since I know of 48 separate DVB-S or DVB-S2 signals on SM5 C-band. You sound like you found 48 video and audio *channels*. You need to be looking at locked transponders (i.e. the TP list after you've deleted out all the entries before a blind search scan so you don't have duplicate signals). There are lots of services on SM5 that yield more than 1 video and audio service so it's quite possible the known 48 signals locked on SM5 could result in hundreds of channels considering just two of the 48 signals result in about 25 audio and video services.

I'll get back to you on some audio signals to test when I look at the known public audio signals to find out if they contain enough audio services to exhibit the things I wrote about. The ones in my review were done with unpublished audio signals.

I got my box in mid-July'ish so it's probably the may firmware. Never did get to put the new firmware release in it that was quickly pulled.
 
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The one thing that Jeff wants is feedback!
Yes that is one thing that important for any company making something... open and honest feedback.

Jeff told me he was disappointed in a majority of beta testers who didn't give ANY feedback or the ones that did give feedback... but that feedback was "Its nice."


Out of all the beta testers (and there were a lot of them I am told) only 2 or 3 of them gave any real feedback on it.

So PLEASE if you have a Manhattan please let your honest feedback on it. We have already opened his eyes and he is listening!
 
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My review used known lockable signals since I know of 48 separate DVB-S or
DVB-S2 signals on SM5 C-band. You sound like you found 48 video and audio
*channels*. You need to be looking at locked transponders (i.e. the TP list
after you've deleted out all the entries before a blind search scan so you don't
have duplicate signals).

I don't see any duplicates.... Maybe I am misunderstanding you. I did not delete any TP either before the scan. I havn't had any duplicate signals yet, so I just scan and add to the TP list. I will delete and scan to see what I get.

I got my box in mid-July'ish so it's probably the may firmware. Never did
get to put the new firmware release in it that was quickly pulled.

By all means do not load any firmware from July! It was pulled because of issues as soon as they were discovered.

I'll check in later to see about the audio that you are referring to. Have a great day!
 
I'm running the July software, without any issues , on my C-band Manhattan. Why don't you PM me , when you get a chance, and tell me what NOT to try ! :) I have a 2d Manhattan running the May software, but I seldom use it, at the moment. :)
 
The blind scan function of the receiver is awful. On a fairly light use Ku-band satellite (SatMex 6 Ku), there are 17 known lockable (DVB-S/DVB-S2) signals and the receiver found 14. That is not too bad (82% found) but it's missing a few of the ones with video services.


This must be one of those "your mileage may vary" issues. My comparison tests with OpenBox vs Manhattan had the Manhattan picking up an extra channel the OpenBox skipped over. This was done on 125w Ku which has a "mixed" line up of S,S-2, high and low SR. I deleted all the TP's on each receiver before scanning, and used a signal splitter to deliver equal levels to each receiver. If you slave a receiver it gets less signal than the main receiver. What was your setup?
 
This must be one of those "your mileage may vary" issues. My comparison tests with OpenBox vs Manhattan had the Manhattan picking up an extra channel the OpenBox skipped over. This was done on 125w Ku which has a "mixed" line up of S,S-2, high and low SR. I deleted all the TP's on each receiver before scanning, and used a signal splitter to deliver equal levels to each receiver. If you slave a receiver it gets less signal than the main receiver. What was your setup?

I agree . Comparing the blindscan of the Manhattan with the blindscan of the Openbox is a quagmire. It all depends upon which Openbox software you use. Let's just say that they both have a decent speed blindscan, and with software updates maybe we'll have better options on just how fast versus how accurate, we want the scan to be. :) Personally, I really liked the fast blindscan on my Solomend using the 9/27/2010 software. It missed some low SR feeds , though. I don't care about those feeds very much, generally, so I liked it a lot.
 
Brent

You are right, I like the fast blindscan too. If there is a channel out there worth watching, the word will get around and you can key it in if you missed it.
 
You guys are correct on "depends on which version software is used". I verfied this last night with a side by side test that I did three weeks ago, against the same test with new software in the Manhattan. The first test found 1 tv and 5 radio channels that we not found on the same test with the latest version of software. Last nights test showed an increase in 47 seconds aded to the scan time... The Openbox software has not been changed, while the Manhattan was.
 
I don't see any duplicates.... Maybe I am misunderstanding you. I did not delete any TP either before the scan. I havn't had any duplicate signals yet, so I just scan and add to the TP list. I will delete and scan to see what I get.
Your attached pics were of the channel list. My methodology uses the TP List because in the TP list, it's one entry per signal. In the channel list, it can be one channel entry per signal or 100 channel entries per signal so it's not a fair way to evaluate a blind scan if your blind scan test misses a 15 channel signal, for instance. You wipe out the TP list before a blind scan test so your blind scan doesn't add duplicate entries from the previous time you blind scanned a particular satellite like Satmex 5 C. With no signals in the satellite's memory before the test, every signal found is a new one and no chance of duplicates.
I'll check in later to see about the audio that you are referring to. Have a great day!
AMC3-C religious audio - their configuration is one program for 25 audio channels. Only 20 audio channels were written to memory.

G17C "symphonic" music mux according to this site's list - One audio channel per program and 41 total audio channels. All 41 were written to memory.

My unpublished audio signals - both were one audio channel per program (same configuration structure as the G17 one) yet there are 100 channels in one mux and 138 in the other. Both only wrote 60 channels to memory each.

What I've gathered so far - 20 audio channel limit into receiver memory if it's one program with more than 20 audio channels; 60 audio channels written to receiver memory limit if it's one audio channel per program.

I don't remember the channel capacity of the Manhattan so I don't know if the developer set those limits intentional to keep one beefy audio service signal from maxing out the receiver channel memory or if there is tons of channel capacity memory and thus no excuse for limiting how many channels get written to memory.
 
If you slave a receiver it gets less signal than the main receiver. What was your setup?

LNB direct to the Manhattan. Satellite peaked by spectrum analyzer for maximum overall signal strength and no crosspole. It's my opinion a lot of loopthrus on receivers or freq splitters are just plain junk because there are some S2 signals I can't lock when I slave or split the LNB while they are easily lockable hooking up the LNB directly.

Going back to blind scan, in my dreams I envision in a future firmware update that you'll have additional options on the blind scan screen. One would be a "Fast" or "Slow" option - Fast would use the same blind scan parameters the receiver currently uses, Slow would use different blind scan parameters that would favor accuracy over speed and take much longer to complete. That will satisfy both camps - those who currently like the fast speed and those like me would would rather have accuracy over speed. "Slow" would save me a lot of labor if the Manhattan will find in scan mode a new signal I see on my spectrum analyzer rather than me having to figure out the SR when the Manhattan misses it and try it on a S2 tuner like the manhattan or my PCI card once I come up with the SR to try.
 
Your attached pics were of the channel list. My methodology uses the TP List because in the TP list, it's one entry per signal. In the channel list, it can be one channel entry per signal or 100 channel entries per signal so it's not a fair way to evaluate a blind scan if your blind scan test misses a 15 channel signal, for instance. You wipe out the TP list before a blind scan test so your blind scan doesn't add duplicate entries from the previous time you blind scanned a particular satellite like Satmex 5 C. With no signals in the satellite's memory before the test, every signal found is a new one and no chance of duplicates.
AMC3-C religious audio - their configuration is one program for 25 audio channels. Only 20 audio channels were written to memory.

G17C "symphonic" music mux according to this site's list - One audio channel per program and 41 total audio channels. All 41 were written to memory.

My unpublished audio signals - both were one audio channel per program (same configuration structure as the G17 one) yet there are 100 channels in one mux and 138 in the other. Both only wrote 60 channels to memory each.

What I've gathered so far - 20 audio channel limit into receiver memory if it's one program with more than 20 audio channels; 60 audio channels written to receiver memory limit if it's one audio channel per program.

I don't remember the channel capacity of the Manhattan so I don't know if the developer set those limits intentional to keep one beefy audio service signal from maxing out the receiver channel memory or if there is tons of channel capacity memory and thus no excuse for limiting how many channels get written to memory.

100 sats, 7000 channels is the limits of the receiver. I will check this out today using your criteria my friend. I do have one question however.... Is it possible that the pid info is not being broadcast like the CW channels on G-17? Or we just talking missed Sr? Those don't scan either regular or blind. If you mentioned it earlier, I must have missed it.

I will do the audio scan and the channel scans a bit later and post. Now I did re-check the TP list for satmex bird. I did not wipe the list, just blind scanned. That said, there are no duplicates. But only 18 TP.... I will wipe it out and rescan so as to duplicate your moves. Thanks for the Info! Have a great day! :)
 
Skysurfer, What receiver are you using that scans in the channels that you are not getting with the Manhattan? I re-read your first post on this issue and did not see another receiver mentioned.

Note: I just ran that scan with my Pansat...... My 9200 also gets the same thing the Manhattan does. 20 channels on the audio.......... Using the criteria you set forth. I'll get to satmex5 in a bit. I will dig my viewsat out of the closet and go again. That said, Is there any receiver out now that does what you are askin about? If so it would be nice to know. Comparing apples to apples that way. There are many things that a PC card and a spectrum analyzer will do that a FTA receiver will not. If FTA receivers don't in general do what you are talking about, then your post should be considered a suggestion as opposed to being critical. I will scan with another receiver, and edit this post if I can.
 
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100 sats, 7000 channels is the limits of the receiver. .... Is it possible that the pid info is not being broadcast like the CW channels on G-17?

I did re-check the TP list for satmex bird. I did not wipe the list, just blind scanned. That said, there are no duplicates. But only 18 TP....

7000 channels should be more than enough to handle the audio only signals. There is 1,400 or so signals in the largest audio signal so 7,000 channel capacity is more than enough to handle it without putting a 60 channel or whatever restriction on the number of channels written to memory.

PID info is being transmitted in all the audio signals I talk about. The CW signal and a Azteca mux are the only ones that doesn't transmit the info in the SI needed to configure the channels in a receiver (and some FOX cable channels did the same thing when they were scrambled but they've upgraded their distribution system since then and that doesn't happen anymore on their new setup).

I concur about 18 TP as that's what I reported in my earlier comments about number of lockable signals on SatMex 5 C-band. There should be at least 48 TP if blind scan was 100% accurate among the ones I know (48) and the ones blind scan probably would find that I missed because I messed up in a SR calculation or I ignored a signal I thought was too narrow to be lockable.
 
Skysurfer, What receiver are you using that scans in the channels that you are not getting with the Manhattan? I re-read your first post on this issue and did not see another receiver mentioned.

A PCI tuner using a transport stream analysis tool. With the incomplete memory writing of fairly large audio channel signals with the Manhattan, that's what it takes to find out the PID values needed to define other signals.

For the christian radio one, I'll see if my other non-PCI receivers can use more than 20 audio channels. I know the Unity 4000 (?) or 5000 can because that's what the christian radio stations use but that is commercial and not consumer.
 

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