Dish Continues to Lose Pay-TV Subscribers

[harshness]

Frontier (Dish owned)

Frontier Communications is not owned by DISH. The largest single shareholder, Vanguard Group, represents under 9% of the outstanding shares.

Frontier offers DISH bundles.

Fierce Cable is a questionable source for a questionable practice (re-blogging) but they didn't mislead on this point.

 

[bobvick]

Well, the FCC says a lot. I can tell you Frontier will not get 25Mbps to all rural areas. They will find some loop hole somewhere, I can promise you that. You can believe all of those articles that you post if you'd like, but they will take the money and run, and the FCC will not do anything to them. As a matter of fact, since you like to post links, here is one for you to read. According to it, Windstream is taking some of the same funds, and they only are promising at least 10/1 and that is their "promise" which is probably about as worth as much as a $3 bill. http://www.fiercetelecom.com/story/...ds-sets-broadband-expansion-400k-r/2015-08-05

 

[harshness]

The FCC has changed the definition of broadband
The minimum broadband download speeds now begin at 25Mbps, up from 4Mbps

I don't think most LECs called their products "broadband" anyway. The term "High-Speed Internet" is much more widely used.

 

[Lue]

Well, the FCC says a lot. I can tell you Frontier will not get 25Mbps to all rural areas. They will find some loop hole somewhere, I can promise you that. You can believe all of those articles that you post if you'd like, but they will take the money and run, and the FCC will not do anything to them. As a matter of fact, since you like to post links, here is one for you to read. According to it, Windstream is taking some of the same funds, and they only are promising at least 10/1 and that is their "promise" which is probably about as worth as much as a $3 bill. http://www.fiercetelecom.com/story/...ds-sets-broadband-expansion-400k-r/2015-08-05

What is the FCC doing to Dish Network right now?
1st. inning, more to come, enjoy the game.
http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...ised-to-reject-dish-networks-3-3-billion.html

 

[ChadT41]

Already being discussed in another thread. Waiting for Charlie to sue.

 

[Lue]

I don't think most LECs called their products "broadband" anyway. The term "High-Speed Internet" is much more widely used.

Because they no longer can call their service Broadband that's why.
They used to be able to mislead customers but no more.

Frontier is able to call theirs Broadband because it is 25mbps or more.
http://www.webpronews.com/fcc-broad...25mbps-or-isps-cant-call-it-broadband-2015-01

 

[Yespage]

Already being discussed in another thread. Waiting for Charlie to sue.

Seriously? When was the last time Dish was involved in a lawsuit?

 

[bobvick]

Frontier is NOT owned by Dish. It is based out of Samford, CT and is traded under the ticker symbol FTR. Frontier PARTNERS with Dish to bundle in areas where they do not have a television product. Just like CenturyLink partners with DirecTV. But DTV/AT&T doesn't own CenturyLink just because they partner.

 

[ChadT41]

Seriously? When was the last time Dish was involved in a lawsuit?

Lol. It has been a minute since we have heard about Charlie and his ways. Was CBS the last one??

 

[Yespage]

Frontier is NOT owned by Dish. It is based out of Samford, CT and is traded under the ticker symbol FTR. Frontier PARTNERS with Dish to bundle in areas where they do not have a television product. Just like CenturyLink partners with DirecTV. But DTV/AT&T doesn't own CenturyLink just because they partner.

I was wondering about that. I was thinking there must be a second Frontier or something.

 

[Lue]

Frontier is NOT owned by Dish. It is based out of Samford, CT and is traded under the ticker symbol FTR. Frontier PARTNERS with Dish to bundle in areas where they do not have a television product. Just like CenturyLink partners with DirecTV. But DTV/AT&T doesn't own CenturyLink just because they partner.

How bad can it get? That's even worse than before at least Dish would have kept some of those 1 million plus homes in house now they will probably be gone forever. Charlie can't catch a break lately.
Frontier Wireless LLC whom Dish used to bid at the FCC auction is another company that, if the FCC goes thru with their threat and goes back and pulls these from Dish/Frontier it will be just too bad, hopefully they won't go back to the Frontier auction bids.

Satellite broadcaster EchoStar and the company's chairman, Charles Ergen, are listed among the owners of an entity called Frontier Wireless LLC that filed an application to bid in the FCC auction of 700-megahertz spectrum, according to documents posted Tuesday evening on the FCC's Web site.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/12/19/echostar-auction-idUSN1960997120071219
http://www.wsj.com/articles/fcc-poi...ties-3-3-billion-auction-discounts-1437075619
https://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/1288657~fef90642156bb638e84c6c198a1aea19/FrontierEchostar.PDF

 

[bobvick]

That is a different Frontier from Frontier Communications. Not the same company. They will not loose all 1 million customers just because they (Frontier Communications) offer that TiVo service you referred to earlier, but I think I am probably talking to a brick wall.

 

[Yespage]

Why would a wireless company be installing wired broadband?

 

[Lue]

That is a different Frontier from Frontier Communications. Not the same company. They will not loose all 1 million customers just because they (Frontier Communications) offer that TiVo service you referred to earlier, but I think I am probably talking to a brick wall.

How many of these Prime Rural one million plus customers that are starved for broadband will drop their sat service and go with the cheaper internet TV service? I am saying at least 25% will and that will equal 300,000 subscriber loss and that's being conservative. Imagine when the numbers start showing up in the following quarterly reports from Dish, you think the rumblings you heard today were loud,, just wait.

10 billion the fed is going to put into rural broadband deployment, The dishes will be coming down in mass numbers when this starts.
Be here before you know it.
https://gcn.com/articles/2015/08/04/broadband-roundup.aspx

 

[ChadT41]

The FCC's solution to rural high speed internet, was offering credits and tax deductions to companies like HughesNet and Viasat... Which have ridiculously low usuage levels, although the speeds can indeed meet suitable download speeds, the bandwidth does not. And until the FCC starts disregarding bandwidth restrictions, that will not change for any form of satellite internet.

 

[bobvick]

The dishes will be coming down in mass numbers when this starts.
Be here before you know it.
https://gcn.com/articles/2015/08/04/broadband-roundup.aspx

Ok Lue. Glad you know so much more than AT&T/DirecTV and Dish Network/Echostar, not to mention SES, Telesat Canada, etc... They are spending hundreds of millions on this outdated satellite stuff replacing birds and adding new ones. So be sure and let the folks over at AT&T know that they wasted money and time on the DirecTV acquisition, and let Charlie know that he doesn't need Echostar XVIII and Echostar XVII. I have my wrenches ready, fixing to go out and take down my DBS dishes and my C-Band dish too. Can you let me in on when CenturyLink is going to get that 25Mbps out here were I live?

 

[Lue]

xxi is slated for Europe S band hybrid mobile, what sats are Dish/Echostar putting up for Satellite TV in the U.S. market?

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2015/03/25/echostar-prepares-launch-for-solaris-mobile/

http://echostarmobile.com/

 

[bobvick]

E18 launches late this year to 110W, E19/Jupiter 2 launches in 2016 I think. ViaSat is launching ViaSat 2 in 2016, satellite transmission is far from dead as you seem to wish.

 

[Yespage]

How many of these Prime Rural one million plus customers that are starved for broadband will drop their sat service and go with the cheaper internet TV service? I am saying at least 25% will and that will equal 300,000 subscriber loss and that's being conservative. Imagine when the numbers start showing up in the following quarterly reports from Dish, you think the rumblings you heard today were loud,, just wait

There is one tiny issue with your claim. Products like Vue and SlingTV are changing the game, but only in certain ways. These channels are not being offered with the same type of services you get with a Dish or Directv. No true DVR (forget about EHDs!), programs only available for a certain amount of time, no access to bonus content.

Want to record an HBO movie for later, when you don't get HBO? Can't do it.
Want to watch programming on beinSport Connect if you have SlingTV? Not available.
Want to watch Live Extra games for EPL on Vue? Not provided.

These services are restricted. And that is the reason why a massive flood of people haven't jumped from Dish to SlingTV. People like me have 500 GB, 1 TB, 2+ TB of recorded programming that would be lost. Programming we would never be able to get back. Additionally, the DVR or On Demand portions of these services are gravely restricted, relative to what we have now.

That is the source of the discounted rates. OTTs are not going to all of a sudden offer the same DVR cloud services and offer all the programming for nothing more.

OTTs are good. It offers the consumer choice, but it is a choice. Kind of like when I went to Latino Dos to get cheaper EPL access in the FSC days. It was cheaper, but I no longer received certain channels like the ESPN suite. OTTs offer a lower price, but it comes with catches. And the consumer at least gets to choose what they are willing to give up for what price.

But this idea that the cable/sat system is dead is folly. It is changing and adapting with the times and channel providers are having to adapt to as they priced their channels too high. But the current system isn't dying quite yet. The status quo offers a significant premium, mainly bonus streaming and online content and fat DVRs bursting with entertainment a lot of people will have a hard time letting go.

 

[Lue]

There is one tiny issue with your claim. Products like Vue and SlingTV are changing the game, but only in certain ways. These channels are not being offered with the same type of services you get with a Dish or Directv. No true DVR (forget about EHDs!), programs only available for a certain amount of time, no access to bonus content.

Want to record an HBO movie for later, when you don't get HBO? Can't do it.
Want to watch programming on beinSport Connect if you have SlingTV? Not available.
Want to watch Live Extra games for EPL on Vue? Not provided.

These services are restricted. And that is the reason why a massive flood of people haven't jumped from Dish to SlingTV. People like me have 500 GB, 1 TB, 2+ TB of recorded programming that would be lost. Programming we would never be able to get back. Additionally, the DVR or On Demand portions of these services are gravely restricted, relative to what we have now.

That is the source of the discounted rates. OTTs are not going to all of a sudden offer the same DVR cloud services and offer all the programming for nothing more.

OTTs are good. It offers the consumer choice, but it is a choice. Kind of like when I went to Latino Dos to get cheaper EPL access in the FSC days. It was cheaper, but I no longer received certain channels like the ESPN suite. OTTs offer a lower price, but it comes with catches. And the consumer at least gets to choose what they are willing to give up for what price.

But this idea that the cable/sat system is dead is folly. It is changing and adapting with the times and channel providers are having to adapt to as they priced their channels too high. But the current system isn't dying quite yet. The status quo offers a significant premium, mainly bonus streaming and online content and fat DVRs bursting with entertainment a lot of people will have a hard time letting go.

Please remember this is just the 1st inning. You heard the roar from Wall st. today.

Thisis from Q1 Dish Network
Roger Lynch - CEO, Sling TV and EVP, Advanced Technologies

Sure. On VOD there is actually quite a lot of VOD that's available today I think we need to do a better job of making it easily accessible to customers but with the different programming partners we have now there is probably over 10,000 hours of VOD comp [indiscernible] so we have as Charlie mentioned earlier it's a bidding consistent depending on the channel partner whether we have VOD and what that right and whatever it is today it is frankly the worst it will ever be it's only getting improved because of their channel partners secure the right's that they can grant us or grant us additional rights if they have will be continue to take make that available so I think it started off live an obviously sports so continuing mostly live but as this business evolves you will see probably more and more viewership in aggregate in VOD I mean we already see channels that have lost of VOD content and on demand content frankly the majority of their viewing is of the on demand content not of the live channel. So I'm quite bullish on what we're seeing on VOD

The internet tv sevices are going to get better and better, until they are actually better than the current Satellite delivered tv services. Remember this is just the first round.

Cable systems will do very well. Satellite systems are way to expensive to operate, those birds are not cheap to launch and maintain. The new internet tv is cheap and efficient to deliver. It is all about efficiency.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/317...arnings-call-transcript?page=2&p=qanda&l=last