Dish Continues to Lose Pay-TV Subscribers

[lparsons21]

OK, we don't agree on what will happen going forward, but frankly it is educated guesswork on both our parts!

I have a Tivo and when it was connected to cable it was wonderful! Not bad as a media center for streaming either.

But I disagree with your demographics. I think that the cable/sat subscribers are made up of us older folks for sure, but also for those younger ones that want access to live sports and the ability to DVR shows for watching on their schedules, neither of which is reasonably possible with streaming video as it exists today. Most of the older people in my age group (I'm 71), have low level subscriptions with no premiums, and those do not provide the profits that Dish is reporting per sub on average. So someone has high level base packages and subs to the premiums. I wonder who they might be?

 

[Bobby]

OK, we don't agree on what will happen going forward, but frankly it is educated guesswork on both our parts!

I have a Tivo and when it was connected to cable it was wonderful! Not bad as a media center for streaming either.

But I disagree with your demographics. I think that the cable/sat subscribers are made up of us older folks for sure, but also for those younger ones that want access to live sports and the ability to DVR shows for watching on their schedules, neither of which is reasonably possible with streaming video as it exists today. Most of the older people in my age group (I'm 71), have low level subscriptions with no premiums, and those do not provide the profits that Dish is reporting per sub on average. So someone has high level base packages and subs to the premiums. I wonder who they might be?

I'm 71 and my neighbor is 79. We both have AEP along with Multisport. We may be different but there it is.....

 

[lparsons21]

I'm 71 and my neighbor is 79. We both have AEP along with Multisport. We may be different but there it is.....

Well we both post here, so that makes us different to begin with!

If I cut the cord today I'd be out $15/month for HBO, $10/month for SHO, no Cinemax (needs me some Strikeback), $8/month for Netflix, $8/month for Hulu (Plus??), and whatever for a couple of the other streaming services. And I'd lose the ability to record and almost complete loss of any live sports. Hell, almost complete loss of any sports at all!

 

[patmurphey]

I'm 72 with AEP, 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys... It's the stupid smart phones that are too expensive...

 

[MikeD-C05]

I'm 72 with AEP, 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys... It's the stupid smart phones that are too expensive...

I agree the smart phones are too high. I don't have one ,but my 15 year old does and we paid like $499.00 for the damn I-phone model he wanted last year for Christmas. But the younger folks I work with in their 30's both have expensive android or I-phones and spend near $200.00 a month to watch tv shows and movies on their phones. Charlie is missing out on that generation and all that monthly income ,because he can't work a deal or partnership with a cell company. Video alone services are doomed. You need some kind of cell phone service /internet service to appeal to they younger generation and your continuing younger sub base. As both Lparsons and Bobby proved my point , they have AEP and they are in their 70s. Younger people don't have that disposable income and are saddled with college loan debt and many are still living at home with their parents. The last thing they want is an expensive satellite package at home. They want a cell phone service that provides their choices on the go, where ever they go. IF you don't have a continuing younger sub base to come up and replace the older dieing generations that presently make up your sub base, you are doomed for future growth as a company.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Well we both post here, so that makes us different to begin with!

If I cut the cord today I'd be out $15/month for HBO, $10/month for SHO, no Cinemax (needs me some Strikeback), $8/month for Netflix, $8/month for Hulu (Plus??), and whatever for a couple of the other streaming services. And I'd lose the ability to record and almost complete loss of any live sports. Hell, almost complete loss of any sports at all!

That is the only thing saving the current sat/cable model today and that is the ability to watch live sports. It is also the thing that is causing the cord cutters and cord nevers to grow. Subsidizing the sports channels like ESPN by spreading the costs and ever increasing rate hikes in all programming packs , is what is hurting that model and is accelerating cord cutting. We have reached the point of diminishing returns on this model. Sports needs to be spun off into their own premium pack and or ott applications like HBO NOW , Showtime , CBS etc. Then you could cut the cord and still get your sports. But you will pay for them. Boy will you pay for them!

 

[Skytrooper]

Ahhhh. The good old days. Remember in the early 80's my cable bill was about 7$ a month. Just stick a cable to the connector and get 20 to 30 some channels on your cable ready TV. Don't remember anyone complaining about prices.

Then came the "box". Things went down hill from there.

 

[bobvick]

Then there were the REAL good ole days in TVRO, before scrambling, and the time in between when you'd spend more than a subscription to beat GI and HBO and the greedy cable companies. Then in the early '90s prices were finally reasonable around the time the VCII+ came out. I can remember in the mid 90's getting everything except the RSNs (all the superstations, basic, movie channels, and networks) for about $500 for a whole year.

 

[patmurphey]

That is the only thing saving the current sat/cable model today and that is the ability to watch live sports...

That's definitely not my reason for Dish/Hopper service. I have about 100 channels from AEP on my Favorites list that I can browse on an 8 day grid. I enjoy TV series shows, drama, science, cooking, Home improvement, etc. (add movies for my wife). I have timers set for new episodes for about 80 series (they are not all in season at once). I record and watch at my convenience. The guide grid is easy to browse for new shows each new day. I have Netflix, Amazon Prime, and You tube for streaming. They are not particularly easy to browse and the content for regular TV shows doesn't match Dish. It use them for a few series and 4k. I'm not cutting the cord and I rarely care about sports.

 

[harshness]

I hadn't seen an update lately about E18, last I had heard it was Q4.

According to Salo's calendar it was bumped to 2016 just shy of three months ago.

 

[Bruce]

Some of you are getting how bad this is and some are not, we grow the Population in the United States by 4 million a year and roughly 2.5 million die each year, so that should be, roughly say a 500,00 to a million new subs a year ( some might have roommates, married, etc) and cable/TV video subs are dropping now 400,000 this quarter, young people are learning they just don't need to subscribe to Cable/Sat. video providers, they are happy with their Netflix, you Tube stuff.

 

[harshness]

http://www.fiercetelecom.com/story/...ostar-struggle-keep-changing-marke/2015-07-16

Any references to Echostar in this article are to their cable television boxes.

 

[bobvick]

Well, I can say this, there are older people who will never subscribe to an ISP for broadband, they do not want the Internet or any part of it, then there will always be underserved areas where unlimited high speed internet will never be available. The price of streaming will increase and will eventually be as much or on par to the old model. DBS will always be needed, whether two DBS providers will continue for years to come is debatable.

 

[harshness]

Some of you are getting how bad this is and some are not, we grow the Population in the United States by 4 million a year and roughly 2.5 million die each year, so that should be, roughly say a 500,00 to a million new subs a year ( some might have roommates, married, etc) and cable/TV video subs are dropping now 400,000 this quarter, young people are learning they just don't to subscribe to video, they are happy with their Netflix, you Tube stuff.

This is Summer when the TV fair is generally not good (or we've already seen it) so more than the usual number of non-sports-fans are trying out cord cutting. That DISH did worse this year than last probably speaks to the frustration with the content providers more than it does to DISH.

Of course it isn't just sports fans that are stuck with conventional pay TV. The one or two must watch shows from the cable networks are scattered (sparsely) throughout the year. A&E has become the poster child for one hit wonders.

 

[harshness]

DBS will always be needed, whether two DBS providers will continue for years to come is debatable.

I don't see DBS surviving for more than 10 years in the US. The technophobes will die off and be replaced with those who are more comfortable with newfangled things (like HD and DVRs).

You'll know that the tide has turned when POTS lines are finally replaced with some manner of broadband media.

 

[bobvick]

It will be a long time before some telcos replace copper/POTS (Frontier, FairPoint, CenturyLink, Windstream) lots of rural areas with lots of miles of old copper in between houses.

 

[Bruce]

This is Summer when the TV fair is generally not good (or we've already seen it) so more than the usual number of non-sports-fans are trying out cord cutting. That DISH did worse this year than last probably speaks to the frustration with the content providers more than it does to DISH.

But summer numbers will be mostly in Q3 reports, unless everyone cancelled in June, it also does not explain the Q1 numbers which was 323,000 down, lots of sports in those 3 months.

As far as nothing on in the summer, that was the old model, there is a ton of new stuff on, the shows on TNT, FX, CBS, AMC, etc, we can't keep up.

 

[Mr Tony]

 

[empiretc]

I have a Tivo and when it was connected to cable it was wonderful! Not bad as a media center for streaming either.

left dish earlier this year after about ~10 years of service. it was a tough decision to make but the ever increasing cost finally got to us.

we have always had twc for internet. we decided to give their triple play bundle a shot. of course, we bought tivos to avoid the fees. for cable cards and modem, we pay $12 in monthly equipment fees. total bill for tv/phone/internet is $120. we get a lot more channels + epix. sports pack for redzone is $9/mo, and every tv in the house is connected.

we always owned and serviced our own equipment with dish, and over the years, dish did away with all the benefits a person would get for owing their own equipment.

dish will lose to twc, if a person has that choice. twc recently put out an app for the Roku which essentially turns it into a wireless HD cable box. that is pretty awesome--> and no fee! a consumer has options to keep their equipment fees in check, unlike with SAT. twc PQ has come a long way over the years and is definitely better than what we had with the 722.

it's sad as satellite has always been a hobby and was superior to any cable service for so long. the times truly are changing.

 

[lparsons21]

TWC is very location dependent. My sister has it in the Kansas City area and isn't impressed, neither am I.

I switched to Mediacom earlier this year with my owned Tivo Roamio Plus. Loved the Tivo and at first the HD PQ was fine. But the node in my neighborhood is very old and they were going to change it out but didn't. Consequently the video and audio glitches and overall HD PQ problems made me come running back to Dish. It did save me money to be with them, but their service just wasn't up to snuff and I told them so when I cancelled.