Barry Bonds

[charper1]

No, I think what he said is that he used the recommended creams that his friend/trainer supplied, and if that turns out to be the same thing as "The Creme" he said then he unknowing took steroids, because he was never told the true composition.

 

[Sean Mota]

What he actually admitted was that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by trainer Greg Anderson. But Bonds said Anderson told him the substances were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis. We still don't know with certainty what those substances contained. I haven't seen any evidence where Greg Anderson said, "I gave steroids to Barry Bonds." So Bonds hasn't actually admitted to using steroids.

and therefore we are to believe that he never did steroids... you have to be blind to not see that everything points to bonds as the major player using steroids. The San Francisco Chronicles writer and the one that wrote the book have it well documented by records compiled by the feds.

 

[brainiac]

No, I think what he said is that he used the recommended creams that his friend/trainer supplied, and if that turns out to be the same thing as "The Creme" he said then he unknowing took steroids, because he was never told the true composition.

What I said comes directly from the Grand Jury testimony. And like you said above, "if." That if hasn't been proven yet.

 

[brainiac]

and therefore we are to believe that he never did steroids... you have to be blind to not see that everything points to bonds as the major player using steroids. The San Francisco Chronicles writer and the one that wrote the book have it well documented by records compiled by the feds.

I don't care what you believe, I'm talking about what's been proven. They have well-documented speculation. I challenge you to show me anything that's been proven as indisputable truth. What makes you think that Bonds was "the major player using steroids?" He was always a cut above the vast majority of players before his alleged steroid usage began in '99. He was a 40-40 player in '96! You have to be naive to think you know exactly who was/is doing steroids and to what degree. It's amazing that no one seemed to have such insight in '98. Hell, I believe that a whole lot of pitchers probably did steroids also, but everyone seems to ignore them. Yet, I can't prove anything. Nor can you.

 

[brainiac]

Just to follow up on Sean's earlier post, these are excerpts from an article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in 2005:

"So why aren't people saying the same thing about Roger Clemens? Why hasn't this bulked-up, overperforming baseball senior citizen received the same treatment as Bonds?

For sure, his accomplishments are equally astounding. In fact, the case could be made that the trajectory of Clemens' career should arouse more suspicion than Bonds'.

In his tell-all book, "Juiced; Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits, and How Baseball Got Big," Jose Canseco wrote: "I've never seen Roger Clemens do steroids, and he never told me that he did. But we've talked about what steroids could do for you, in which combinations."

He also said Clemens showed "classic signs" of steroid use.

Clemens' agent, Randy Hendricks was furious. "He has passed all tests and will continue to do so in 2005."

The same tests Bonds passed..."

So Sean, didn't your all-knowing eyes cause you to suspect Clemens? I know, I know...Canseco is a liar, right?:haha

 

[vurbano]

That's exactly my point. Bonds has never failed a test, and there has been nothing but circumstantial evidence about him.

WTF??? is that dribble? Bonds has admitted it in testimony before.

 

[vurbano]

I don't care what you believe, I'm talking about what's been proven. They have well-documented speculation. I challenge you to show me anything that's been proven as indisputable truth.

"Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday."
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594

Looks like he used them.

 

[brainiac]

"Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday."
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594

Looks like he used them.

Read what it actually says...not what you infer. It said that he used a clear substance and a cream. It doesn't say that it was steroids. Greg Anderson has never said that he gave steroids to Bonds, and nowhere does it say that what Bonds used was steroids. If he had in fact admitted that he used steroids, then why the hell would a perjury investigation be taking place right now? Why would they be trying to prove something that he had already admitted? Dribble that.

 

[Sean Mota]

I don't care what you believe, I'm talking about what's been proven. They have well-documented speculation. I challenge you to show me anything that's been proven as indisputable truth. What makes you think that Bonds was "the major player using steroids?" He was always a cut above the vast majority of players before his alleged steroid usage began in '99. He was a 40-40 player in '96! You have to be naive to think you know exactly who was/is doing steroids and to what degree. It's amazing that no one seemed to have such insight in '98. Hell, I believe that a whole lot of pitchers probably did steroids also, but everyone seems to ignore them. Yet, I can't prove anything. Nor can you.

The book that came out documents all his schedule for injecting him with steroids and which one he was experimenting with. This was all documented by his trainer who got caught. Bonds is the major player that had a trainer in the club house who was caught by the feds dealing steroids which are illegal drugs. Inference alone makes him the primary user of Anderson drug operation.

Yes, I agree with you about bonds before he started using steroid. But look at his numbers since 1998 when it is believed he started using steroids. The statistics are amazing and he has broken the balance of nature which says that as Age increases the physical ability of the body decreases and therefore decreases performance. With Bonds he has broken all the statistical model that throughout the history of baseball no one has been able to beat age. Look at his number since 1998 and you will see how amazing are the numbers at his age. He has done something which no one has done at his age in the history of baseball.

I am sure that there are others that have done or are doing steroids and no one is trying to deny that. The problem with Bonds is that he is breaking records that have stood many years and everyone knows that he has done it using steroids and therefore this put his name on the dirty side of the coin.

 

[Sean Mota]

Just to follow up on Sean's earlier post, these are excerpts from an article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in 2005:

"So why aren't people saying the same thing about Roger Clemens? Why hasn't this bulked-up, overperforming baseball senior citizen received the same treatment as Bonds?

For sure, his accomplishments are equally astounding. In fact, the case could be made that the trajectory of Clemens' career should arouse more suspicion than Bonds'.

I agree with you about Clements but he does not have his trainer in the locker room being acussed as a drug dealer. That is the difference. Now if Clements is doing it, he is equally guilty and deserves the same treatment; however, Clements is not breaking records or has become the immortal that Bonds has become after steroids.

Also a piece of baseball about pitching in the NL vs AL. There seems to a trend that pitchers from the AL do better by going to the NL. Everytime Clements have tried to pitch to an AL team after going back to the NL he has gotten whack by the AL hitters. Maybe Clements and Pedro are just a result of a weaker NL where there are two less players per game in the same catergory as the AL. I am not saying that this the whole reason but we have seen the trend.

 

[TheTimm]

I don't think any pitcher should ever hit a guy. Pedro drives me nuts that he does it intentionally. Did we learn nothing from Kirby Puckett? Drilling a guy in the head with a baseball should not be acceptable under any circumstances. He's a guy living every boy's dream. Even if he's a huge ass he doesn't deserve to have his vision taken away or any other injury that comes along with getting a 90mph pitch to the temple..

I have no problem with pitchers throwing at a guy to send a message and/or take back the inside of the plate..... but throwing at someone's head is a completely separate issue to me. I don't think anyone really minds a brushback pitch -- it's as much a part of baseball as fighting is a part of hockey -- but if you start throwing at someone's head/trying to injure them/putting their career in jeopardy you're gonna have some problems because you're crossing a line.

So I have no problem with pitchers throwing at Barry Bonds (in fact I'm amazed it doesn't happen more often) as long as they don't aim for his gi-normous puffy head.

 

[vurbano]

Read what it actually says...not what you infer. It said that he used a clear substance and a cream. It doesn't say that it was steroids. Greg Anderson has never said that he gave steroids to Bonds, and nowhere does it say that what Bonds used was steroids. If he had in fact admitted that he used steroids, then why the hell would a perjury investigation be taking place right now? Why would they be trying to prove something that he had already admitted? Dribble that.

Heres what it says Sparky,

"Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday."

He took the cream, he admittted it and plays it off saying I didnt know what it was. Are we to think that he thought it was sun tan lotion? Your defense requires anyone listening to have the gullability of a 3 yr old. You should try that kind of defense if you are ever in court. Im sure we will all write to you in jail.

 

[brainiac]

Heres what it says Sparky,

"Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday."

He took the cream, he admittted it and plays it off saying I didnt know what it was. Are we to think that he thought it was sun tan lotion? Your defense requires anyone listening to have the gullability of a 3 yr old. You should try that kind of defense if you are ever in court. Im sure we will all write to you in jail.

Obviously you failed reading comprehension. Again, why would they be conducting a perjury investigation if he had already admitted that he had taken steroids. No one has established that what he used was actually steroids, and Greg Anderson hasn't said that he gave Bonds steroids. You're taking two pieces of circumstantial evidence and coming to a conclusion that hasn't been proven. It's people like you who railroad people right to jail. So according to your logic, Einstein, the perjury investigation is to prove that he lied when he admitted to taking them? Un-effin'-believable! He may have taken them, and all the hearsay, innuendos, and circumstantial evidence seem to indicate that he may have. But in this society, we don't (or at least most of us) don't convict on may have. Admitting that he used a cream and a clear substance given to him by someone who's been indicted in a steroid-distribution ring is not the same as saying, "I used a cream and a clear substance containing steroids," no matter how much you want it to be. Why in the hell do you think he's still playing now? If they'd had an admission of guilt, there would be no perjury investigation, and Selig would have already suspended him. Don't let your hatred for the man cloud your ability to see the actual facts of the case.

 

[Sean Mota]

In the Court of Law I, personally, do not think we will ever see Bonds or any player found guilty of steroids consumption. The lawyers are too wise to let that happen and Anderson in this case has been bought by Bonds and he won't talk. But in the court of public opinion, the verdict is out. He is guilty of steroid used and will forever have the steroid cloud on his head. The same Shefiel, Mcgwire, Sosa, and Giambi and probably a few more. Many times public opinion is more damaging than anything else. I hope anyone who cheats gets what they deserve but who knows how this is going to be done.

 

[brainiac]

In the Court of Law I, personally, do not think we will ever see Bonds or any player found guilty of steroids consumption. The lawyers are too wise to let that happen and Anderson in this case has been bought by Bonds and he won't talk. But in the court of public opinion, the verdict is out. He is guilty of steroid used and will forever have the steroid cloud on his head. The same Shefiel, Mcgwire, Sosa, and Giambi and probably a few more. Many times public opinion is more damaging than anything else. I hope anyone who cheats gets what they deserve but who knows how this is going to be done.

Except for Anderson being bought out - I think it might be a matter of loyalty since they're boyhood friends - I agree with you one hundred percent. I also think that they're quite a few others, including pitchers, who may have gotten away with it without being detected. It's just too bad that the court of public opinion doesn't see the records achieved in the Segregation Era and the Live Ball Era (1920-1941) as tainted also.

 

[salsadancer7]

Obviously you failed reading comprehension. Again, why would they be conducting a perjury investigation if he had already admitted that he had taken steroids. No one has established that what he used was actually steroids, and Greg Anderson hasn't said that he gave Bonds steroids. You're taking two pieces of circumstantial evidence and coming to a conclusion that hasn't been proven. It's people like you who railroad people right to jail. So according to your logic, Einstein, the perjury investigation is to prove that he lied when he admitted to taking them? Un-effin'-believable! He may have taken them, and all the hearsay, innuendos, and circumstantial evidence seem to indicate that he may have. But in this society, we don't (or at least most of us) don't convict on may have. Admitting that he used a cream and a clear substance given to him by someone who's been indicted in a steroid-distribution ring is not the same as saying, "I used a cream and a clear substance containing steroids," no matter how much you want it to be. Why in the hell do you think he's still playing now? If they'd had an admission of guilt, there would be no perjury investigation, and Selig would have already suspended him. Don't let your hatred for the man cloud your ability to see the actual facts of the case.

Great post. The scariest part is that when people think like the person you were talking to, do they think the same way when it comes to a crime? Look, do I think Bonds was a 'roids freak...? YES...do I think she should go somewhere far away when he retires and NEVER appear again? YES ...BUT until they ACTUALLY show some proof or CREDIBLE witnesses....he is one of THE greatest home run hitters of all time....period.

 

[BlackHitachi]

It's just too bad that the court of public opinion doesn't see the records achieved in the Segregation Era and the Live Ball Era (1920-1941) as tainted also.

This is very true then we would not care about Bonds right now.

 

[Purogamer]

Jesus christ, like no older athlete can do anything? C'mon guys, just because a lot of guys fall apart when they get old doesn't mean they all do. Anyone who walks as much as bonds does should have plenty of damn energy.

Even if he took steroids and knew it, so what. I still have yet to hear a reason why that means he shouldn't have the record. Are we assuming every other player was clean, or that you can't hit more than 10 HR's a year without roids, or what? If it took rampant steroid abuse to hit 73, why isn't roger maris the anti-christ for hitting 61, in a shorter season, all those years ago because OBVIOUSLY he was on something because no normal man did what he did...

Sports is full of guys who outperform others, and sometimes by a lot, it doesn't mean they're all on steroids.

 

[Purogamer]

715!!

"Alll byyyyy myyyysellllffffff..."

 

[charper1]

I am glad hes there finally; lets see if the Giants are still close after the AS break if he will retire. I still don't think he is as interested in catching Aaron anymore.