All about Birdview and Dish Hunting

[gabshere]

lol sounds like me but i live 28 miles from lowes i have more luck finding and getting dishes than setting them back up

hopefully it will be a good day tomorrow

 

[linuxman]

Finally got on the roof after lunch.

Put the scalar ring back on, slid in the co-rotor. The scalar ring had an arrow for where the LNBs should be. It actually has them at the 10:30 and 4:30 positions. Did some quick measurements and calulations and came up with a diameter of precisely 8 foot 2-3/4" inches from top of curve to top of curve. Put a string on it and measured the depth and came up with 14-3/4" which yields a F/D ratio of 0.42 and a focal distance of 41.3" The 41.3 comes to be just about where the inside of the mouth of the orignial LNB was. If I set the co-rotor to the prescribed 0.42, the focal distance is about where the KU arm is about an inch inside the co-rotor.

The problem is that leaves no room for the cap, and the feed-horn cover won't fit. So I stuck the co-rotor further towards the dish just enough to allow the cap to fit on, which also let the feed-horn cover fit.

May have to adjust that, and improvise for the lens cap, and may have to manufacture a new feed-horn cover.

Took the old Drake and mini-dvd up to move the dish to center so I could drill out the 3 new upper holes on the cap. Moved the dish to about where I thought G-11 should be. My TSS. I had hooked up the servo and lnbs just because I wanted to. I don't even have a VCII board in that receiver any more. Flipped through a couple of channels and BAM, I had analog C-Band. SQ at 202 out of 255. That's with the dish setting there cocked and not plumb and nothing tuned.

I have to keep reminding myself that you can get analog C-Band with a sagging screen door and an LNB. But things are looking good.

After I got it plumbed up, took some quick readings on elevation and declination on what is there. I bought a brand new magnetic angle finder today, and it says the elevation of the dish is at 37 degrees. I checked the back of the dish and it says 42 degrees, so there is 5 degrees of declination built into this dish. According to Satellite AV's GeoSatFinder, my latitude is 38.94N and total elevation should be 44.9. That's 6 degrees of declination instead of the 5 built-in to the dish. So I might not have to do too much except raise the elevation a little. We'll have to see what kind of Ku I get across the arc.

The idea of the upper row of new bolts did the trick and now the cap sits on the mast and is almost perfectly plumb. I will finish that tomorrow. By then it was time to gather everything up and take them all down the ladder.


The hard part is over!!! Thank Goodness!!

Tomorrow, I will take the Pansat, VBox II, mini-dvd up and start tuning.

Here is a couple of pics of it when I hit the analog feed on G-11 when it wasn't even plumbed yet.



The fun starts tomorrow!!

 

[somery]

Nice pictures linuxman! Was that Gene Scott's feed?

 

[linuxman]

Hey somery.

Thanks!

After I got down off the roof, I looked up at the two dishes and now I think I may have it moved to G26 at 93W after all. I don't know what feed it was. The picture quality of the old Drake is so bad, and I was looking at it on a 7" screen so I don't know for sure.

I don't think it Dr. Scott's feed.

I will have a better idea today after I get everything hooked up.

 

[djkurious]

I am so jealous! I love that mount you made for the roof.

 

[linuxman]

Hey djkurious!

The angles were already manufactured. I just had the welder substitute the center mast for the bigger diameter. I wish I could take credit for it but someone else designed it. I just made a few modifications.

I don't think the dish will move. It has almost 1500 lbs of blocks not counting the weight of the steel. It is pretty solid.

Thanks!!

 

[linuxman]

So far so good.

BTW I wasn't on G-11, but was close. Was on G26.

Okay so far. I haven't touched the elevation or declination yet because I took my old angle finder up today and compared the readings on both. The old says the elevation on the dish is at 39 degrees and on the back of the dish, it is at 46 degrees. The readings from the new angle finder are above.

Here are my Ku readings so far. All are SQ readings:
G-11 National labs test card is about 50%
AMC 3 PBS new Vertical channels are in the 30s
AMC 6 12052 V mux is at 60%
White Springs is at 90%
G10R 11720V are at 60%

Not bad for not touching anything yet.

I have strong TP's for trying to get Hispasat and PAS3R

What I didn't get was a reading on strong TP on Intelsat 805 C-Band and PAS9R C-Band.

If someone could get me a strong TP on those two birds I would appreciate it.

The way the pulses are in this setup are so different than what they were, the VBox II thought everything East of AMC6 was beyond the limit. So everything to the East has to be found by hand.

I am going to see if I can get Hispasat, PAS3R, Intelsat 805 and PAS9R before doing anything with the elevation/declination.

It is a little weak in the center, but so far, it seems to be tracking the arc ok.

 

[linuxman]

I just scanned in Hispasat!!

WooHoo!!!

Granted the SQ is only 15-25%, but it is there.

So I am tracking from 30W to 129W with SQ as noted above.

What would be the first course of action?

As noted the Ku SQ is a little weak in the center, and it is a little weak on the far East, but it sees the whole arc. The SQ on 129 is fine at 90% and G10R 11720V is good at 60, but can be 75% so in reality it is a little on the weak side too.

I'm thinking of putting the co-rotor at the correct F/D ratio and see what happens.

I don't want to do anything with the way it is tracking unless I have to.

Let me know what you think?

 

[gabshere]

well everything is looking good Fred , i thought it would slide right in but luckly you got it milled quickly without delay..... yes reaching the correct fd would or should help .... thats what i have to do with mine check the fd.....


Good luck

 

[ftarock]

It's actually not good if you stuck with the built-in declination. Declination is vary from location to location and has to be exact because it's the factor to determind how flat/curve the dish moves along the arc.
If your declination is 6 and you stuck with 5 degs, your dish moves flatter than the arc. Rasing the dish elevation won't fix the incorrect declination problem. You won't have problem with sats on the top of the arc (those close your true south).
The further East/West the dish moves, the higher the dish is to the sats.
If I were you, I would to tune the dish with incorrect declination. I would try to modify the ring/mount or whatever to make the declination to be adjustable.
With incorrect declination value, no matter how hard you try, dish won't track the arc correctly.
Happy tuning...

Finally got on the roof after lunch.

Put the scalar ring back on, slid in the co-rotor. The scalar ring had an arrow for where the LNBs should be. It actually has them at the 10:30 and 4:30 positions. Did some quick measurements and calulations and came up with a diameter of precisely 8 foot 2-3/4" inches from top of curve to top of curve. Put a string on it and measured the depth and came up with 14-3/4" which yields a F/D ratio of 0.42 and a focal distance of 41.3" The 41.3 comes to be just about where the inside of the mouth of the orignial LNB was. If I set the co-rotor to the prescribed 0.42, the focal distance is about where the KU arm is about an inch inside the co-rotor.

The problem is that leaves no room for the cap, and the feed-horn cover won't fit. So I stuck the co-rotor further towards the dish just enough to allow the cap to fit on, which also let the feed-horn cover fit.

May have to adjust that, and improvise for the lens cap, and may have to manufacture a new feed-horn cover.

Took the old Drake and mini-dvd up to move the dish to center so I could drill out the 3 new upper holes on the cap. Moved the dish to about where I thought G-11 should be. My TSS. I had hooked up the servo and lnbs just because I wanted to. I don't even have a VCII board in that receiver any more. Flipped through a couple of channels and BAM, I had analog C-Band. SQ at 202 out of 255. That's with the dish setting there cocked and not plumb and nothing tuned.

I have to keep reminding myself that you can get analog C-Band with a sagging screen door and an LNB. But things are looking good.

After I got it plumbed up, took some quick readings on elevation and declination on what is there. I bought a brand new magnetic angle finder today, and it says the elevation of the dish is at 37 degrees. I checked the back of the dish and it says 42 degrees, so there is 5 degrees of declination built into this dish. According to Satellite AV's GeoSatFinder, my latitude is 38.94N and total elevation should be 44.9. That's 6 degrees of declination instead of the 5 built-in to the dish. So I might not have to do too much except raise the elevation a little. We'll have to see what kind of Ku I get across the arc.

The idea of the upper row of new bolts did the trick and now the cap sits on the mast and is almost perfectly plumb. I will finish that tomorrow. By then it was time to gather everything up and take them all down the ladder.


The hard part is over!!! Thank Goodness!!

Tomorrow, I will take the Pansat, VBox II, mini-dvd up and start tuning.

Here is a couple of pics of it when I hit the analog feed on G-11 when it wasn't even plumbed yet.

View attachment 15455 View attachment 15456

The fun starts tomorrow!!

 

[linuxman]

Thanks ftarock!

You are correct in what you have said, and that would normally be the case.

The elevation/declination readings above have been from two different angle finders made by two different manufacturers. Angle finders are notoriously inaccurate, that's why I bought the second one because I knew the first one was off.

Where can you buy an accurate angle finder/inclinometer, and how much will it cost?

I may still try to adjust the declination with washers. That is how caddata suggested doing it, but first I want to publish the latest readings.

I moved the co-rotor to it's calculated position at .042, and now I have the following readings across the arc. All are Ku readings except AMC10 which is C-Band only:
Hispasat 11883 V is now at 75%
12051V is now at 75%
AMC6 12052V is now at 80%
AMC3 Montana PBS H is now at 45%
The new V PBS channels are at 60%
G11 the 12060V is now at 75-85% This is the TSS Center
G10R 11720V is still at 60% no change
IA7 129W White Springs is at 92%
AMC10 the encrypted G4 mux is at 99% This is C-Band no Ku available

These are all fantastic Ku readings.

Can they be better?

If someone has something to compare these with using a Pansat 3500 or receiver with similar meter readings, please post them.

I have quit for the day, there is a storm coming. I now have the feed-horn cover hung on with duct tape and no lens cover temporarily.

The only problem I am experiencing right now is that the VBox II won't stop at the same position with the highest readings when coming from one direction or the other.

Another question. The position numbers are stored in the receiver, correct?

The pulse readings are stored in the VBox II, correct?

It may be that I need to reset the VBox II. After all it was on a linear actuator with much different pulse readings before today.

This may also be as suggested by ftarock that because the declination is off just a hair, it can stop on the sweet spot coming from one direction, but can't stop on it when coming from the other direction.

May also be the result of a little slop between the motor and the ring-gear/pinion.

Should I quit while I am ahead, or try to get more tomorrow?

Here are some pics as everything stands now.









I'll be watching for suggestions and comparisons this evening.

Thanks,

Fred

 

[ftarock]

Ku reading looks good to me, even though it does not tell much about uncorrect errors and other things since it's from dvb receiver. If you have a dvb pci, I suggest to install TSReader to see how clean the signal is.
Base on the Ku reading, my opinion your dish is very good for Ku and close the arc.
If I were you, I would leave the way it is and start tuning the dish (truesouth, furthest East/West sats) to see how good/bad the signal is at furthest East/West.
1. If dish needs to be pull down at both furthest East/West, you will need to increase the declination.
2. If dish needs to be push up at both furthest East/West, you will need to decrease the declination.
3. If dish needs to be push up at one side and pull down at the other, wrong truesouth....

Thanks ftarock!

You are correct in what you have said, and that would normally be the case.

The elevation/declination readings above have been from two different angle finders made by two different manufacturers. Angle finders are notoriously inaccurate, that's why I bought the second one because I knew the first one was off.

Where can you buy an accurate angle finder/inclinometer, and how much will it cost?

I may still try to adjust the declination with washers. That is how caddata suggested doing it, but first I want to publish the latest readings.

I moved the co-rotor to it's calculated position at .042, and now I have the following readings across the arc. All are Ku readings except AMC10 which is C-Band only:
Hispasat 11883 V is now at 75%
12051V is now at 75%
AMC6 12052V is now at 80%
AMC3 Montana PBS H is now at 45%
The new V PBS channels are at 60%
G11 the 12060V is now at 75-85% This is the TSS Center
G10R 11720V is still at 60% no change
IA7 129W White Springs is at 92%
AMC10 the encrypted G4 mux is at 99% This is C-Band no Ku available

These are all fantastic Ku readings.

Can they be better?

If someone has something to compare these with using a Pansat 3500 or receiver with similar meter readings, please post them.

I have quit for the day, there is a storm coming. I now have the feed-horn cover hung on with duct tape and no lens cover temporarily.

The only problem I am experiencing right now is that the VBox II won't stop at the same position with the highest readings when coming from one direction or the other.

Another question. The position numbers are stored in the receiver, correct?

The pulse readings are stored in the VBox II, correct?

It may be that I need to reset the VBox II. After all it was on a linear actuator with much different pulse readings before today.

This may also be as suggested by ftarock that because the declination is off just a hair, it can stop on the sweet spot coming from one direction, but can't stop on it when coming from the other direction.

May also be the result of a little slop between the motor and the ring-gear/pinion.

Should I quit while I am ahead, or try to get more tomorrow?

Here are some pics as everything stands now.

View attachment 15462 View attachment 15463 View attachment 15464

View attachment 15465 View attachment 15466 View attachment 15467

View attachment 15468 View attachment 15469 View attachment 15470

View attachment 15471

I'll be watching for suggestions and comparisons this evening.

Thanks,

Fred

 

[WyrTwister]

Do you think I should paint the Birdview flat black?

I've got to clean the penetrating oil off that I sprayed through it to make the bolts come out without breaking off. Of course if I did paint it, I would mask off the logo.

So should I paint it or just clean it and leave the color it's natural charcoal gray?

If you paint it , I would do it primer gray .

Wyr

 

[linuxman]

If I were you, I would leave the way it is and start tuning the dish (truesouth, furthest East/West sats) to see how good/bad the signal is at furthest East/West.
1. If dish needs to be pull down at both furthest East/West, you will need to increase the declination.
2. If dish needs to be push up at both furthest East/West, you will need to decrease the declination.
3. If dish needs to be push up at one side and pull down at the other, wrong truesouth....

Thanks ftarock. I'll try and pull in AMC8 tomorrow and compare it with Hispasat. I don't have a circular lnb on this rig yet for 148W.

Thanks Wyr,

I have decided to leave it the natural charcoal gray.

Fred

 

[caddata]

Fred:

Great pictures. I'm ready to drive back to Arkansas and take back my Birdview by gun point if necessary.

Birdview wasn't kidding when they called it a HH drive were they? I was amazed the first time I saw mine lay over sideways first east, and then west.

The 5 degrees of declination that you found built into the mount sounds about right. They (Birdview) planned on selling them all over the country, and the 5 degrees was just a starting point. I believe you'll find that it will really hit a sweet spot with a few shims.

When they were selling at their peak, I remember seeing purpose built semi trailer loads of them on the highways. At least 50 dishes per truckload. Not sure who manufactured them for Birdview, but they're the best I've ever messed with.

Keep up the hard work,
Harold

 

[gabshere]

just don't let it slip where in arkansas lol lol

nice pictures Fred

 

[linuxman]

Great pictures. I'm ready to drive back to Arkansas and take back my Birdview by gun point if necessary.

I was going to suggest that you should head for Arkansas and we could have George meet us and take back your dish, but I see George is already making plans to track down where you left it and take it over for himself.

So you think maybe 3 or 4 washers along the top might be just right?

Dang it is working so good, I hate to mess with it.

Oh well, caution to the wind. No guts, no glory!!

I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

Fred

 

[caddata]

Fred:

My only suggestion would be to peak it for true north/south and lookangle so you won't have to change those again. Once you're satisfied with those, loosen the bolts, drive in a wood wedge, and swing the arc from south to east or west maximum while looking at a signal meter and see if there are any improvments.

There may be no improvment in signal strength, but I suspect it's going to need at least a few washers.

Having a ball here living the saga with you. You're doing it the right way "Bud" (Buddy).

Harold

 

[linuxman]

Once you're satisfied with those, loosen the bolts, drive in a wood wedge, and swing the arc from south to east or west maximum while looking at a signal meter and see if there are any improvments.

Sounds like a pretty good idea with the wedge first before actually putting any washers in.

I'll know more about it's true track of the arc after hitting AMC8 today. That would be my farthest West. I might even try 148W just to see if I can get a signal with a linear LNB there.

Thanks again!!

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Tried the experiment of loosening the bolts and inserting a 1/2" piece of wood just to the right and left of the two top bolts and had the other bolts snugged accordingly. Lost all KU signal on center satellite. Took the wood out, and placed two flat washers on the top two bolts and 1 flat washer under the other 4 top bolts, snugged up and Ku signal on center satellite was half what it is with nothing. Took the washers out, and went back to orignal. Signal right back where I started.

Moved all the way back to Hispasat, and this time I moved to AMC8 at 139W and got signal on 5 or 6 transponders. Nothing to see, all encrypted, but I know I was on the right satellite, and had 99% SQ. Course it is C-Band. Didn't try for 148W. I am satisfied it needs no adjustment of the whole assembly in either direction.

I am pretty sure that it is dead on the arc from extreme East to extreme West.

I reset the VBox II to see if I could help solve my problem of different SQ if arriving at a satellite from East than West. I also took the VBox II remote to the roof and by fine tuning with it, am able to solve the problem about 98%. The only thing I can figure is that the conversion kit magnetic wheel doesn't have as many pulses as a normal linear actuator. That makes it harder to fine tune East and West movement.

The only thing left is to lower the elevation and raise the declination and see if that helps with the problem above. I hate doing that, because I don't think that is the real problem. I think it is a matter of pulses. Maybe later in the summer, I can figure out a way to build in more pulses to the conversion idea to make fine tuning easier.

The dish is performing beautifully as far as I am concerned.

I am going to spend a little time this afternoon trying to figure out how to extend the feed-horn cover and get a lens cap on the co-rotor. I'm still waiting for my buddy to come and run the coax and power cables into the house.

Fred