All about Birdview and Dish Hunting
- Thread starter linuxman
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 127
- Views 15K
- Status
I think you may be right dem0nlord.
I have scratched my head all I care to right now. I'll just have to live with it for a while.
I have it tuned as much as I think I can at this point, and that hasn't solved the problem. It has helped but not solved it.
BTW the final readings with the protractor and string are Total elevation = 45.0 degrees. Main axis elevation is at 39.5 leaving a declination of 5.5 degrees.
According to the site where I got the suggested readings, it is pretty darn close.
I put the new feed-horn cover on this morning and drilled some holes in the lens cover.
Here are the pics:
I talked to my electronics engineer neighbor about the problem I am having last night. He said he can make a more sensitive pulse reader for it.
Before I can have him do that, I will need to know how many pulses per minute/revolution the software in the VBox II can tolerate, and just how precise we want to go.
I think the problem is two-fold. Not enough pulses, slop in the pinion gear.
A third possibility exists. This is the older motor with the different gear ratio that the conversion kit is not supposed to work with but does.
How can I tell if the motor is the odd/older gear ratio?
Thanks,
Fred
I have scratched my head all I care to right now. I'll just have to live with it for a while.
I have it tuned as much as I think I can at this point, and that hasn't solved the problem. It has helped but not solved it.
BTW the final readings with the protractor and string are Total elevation = 45.0 degrees. Main axis elevation is at 39.5 leaving a declination of 5.5 degrees.
According to the site where I got the suggested readings, it is pretty darn close.
I put the new feed-horn cover on this morning and drilled some holes in the lens cover.
Here are the pics:
I talked to my electronics engineer neighbor about the problem I am having last night. He said he can make a more sensitive pulse reader for it.
Before I can have him do that, I will need to know how many pulses per minute/revolution the software in the VBox II can tolerate, and just how precise we want to go.
I think the problem is two-fold. Not enough pulses, slop in the pinion gear.
A third possibility exists. This is the older motor with the different gear ratio that the conversion kit is not supposed to work with but does.
How can I tell if the motor is the odd/older gear ratio?
Thanks,
Fred
That feedhorn cover turned out pretty nice! I've gotta build me a new base to attach my feedhorn to. The lip of the plasic disc that gets bolted on with the feedhorn (the part that you run the screws through to hold on the feedhorn cover) got torn off - probably by all the birds that were nesting in that dang feedhorn.
I have another question.
I am having to reverse the polarity on every satellite before it will bring any channels in.
I have reset the Pansat and the VBox II in preparation for re-scanning in all the satellites and channels. I thought maybe that would set all the polarity correctly, but apparently not.
For instance on G11, if the default polarity is -45 for V, and +45 for H, I have to set +45 for V and -45 for H.
Is it just because this is an old style Co-Rotor?
I am pretty sure I have in inserted into the scaler ring correctly. The server motor and Ku Band LNB is at the top side at the 10:30 position, and the C-Band LNB is at the bottom side at the 4:30 position.
I am asking because I thought this might be a clue to my problem.
Thanks,
Fred
I am having to reverse the polarity on every satellite before it will bring any channels in.
I have reset the Pansat and the VBox II in preparation for re-scanning in all the satellites and channels. I thought maybe that would set all the polarity correctly, but apparently not.
For instance on G11, if the default polarity is -45 for V, and +45 for H, I have to set +45 for V and -45 for H.
Is it just because this is an old style Co-Rotor?
I am pretty sure I have in inserted into the scaler ring correctly. The server motor and Ku Band LNB is at the top side at the 10:30 position, and the C-Band LNB is at the bottom side at the 4:30 position.
I am asking because I thought this might be a clue to my problem.
Thanks,
Fred
It should be printed on the motor somewhere. I believe it's on a little metal plate that lists all the specifications of the motor, but I'm not 100% sure as it's been quite a while since I looked at mine. Mine is a 160:1 (moves really slow). Though I also have a brand new replacement motor that's 70:1 which I bought from skyvision but never installed. I'm just keeping it as a replacement in case the old one ever dies. Anyway, I believe the magnet wheel/sensor kit from skyvision specifies that the motor cannot be one of a higher ratio, like 30:1 or something along those lines or it may not work properly. If your motor is the wrong ratio, the good news is you can buy a new 70:1 from skyvision. The bad news is it's a bit pricey.
Hey Stefan,
Thanks for the info, I may need it.
But after doing the reset on the Pansat and VBox II, I think I may have found the answer.
You may remember a couple of posts back about having to reverse all the polarities on the Ku birds to get them to see anything.
Tonight I started to scan C-Band birds. Scanned in G-11 fine. Moved to G-26 and scanned in the Ku side. All is well. Got Doc Scott, Macys, etc.
Changed the default polarity to the opposite and started scanning G-26 C-Band. Got two or three different channels, then BAM, all the EWTN channels from G-11 scanned in.
I had downloaded a channel file before the reset, so I investigated the 4 or 5 tp's there. Manually input them into G-26, had to change the polarity back to default to get a signal, thought to myself, so the polarity is different on the C-Band side.
Deleted all the tp's from G-11 and channels, and scanned again. Still got the EWTN stuff from G-11. Scanned in on 3922H on G-26. Scans in on 3913H on G-11.
So what does that tell us?
Is it possible that I have my setup centered on G-26 instead of G-11 and still get all that great signal clear across the arc?
If so, that would account for the directional problem.
Let me hear your thoughts. Please!! This thing is driving me nuts.
Fred
Thanks for the info, I may need it.
But after doing the reset on the Pansat and VBox II, I think I may have found the answer.
You may remember a couple of posts back about having to reverse all the polarities on the Ku birds to get them to see anything.
Tonight I started to scan C-Band birds. Scanned in G-11 fine. Moved to G-26 and scanned in the Ku side. All is well. Got Doc Scott, Macys, etc.
Changed the default polarity to the opposite and started scanning G-26 C-Band. Got two or three different channels, then BAM, all the EWTN channels from G-11 scanned in.
I had downloaded a channel file before the reset, so I investigated the 4 or 5 tp's there. Manually input them into G-26, had to change the polarity back to default to get a signal, thought to myself, so the polarity is different on the C-Band side.
Deleted all the tp's from G-11 and channels, and scanned again. Still got the EWTN stuff from G-11. Scanned in on 3922H on G-26. Scans in on 3913H on G-11.
So what does that tell us?
Is it possible that I have my setup centered on G-26 instead of G-11 and still get all that great signal clear across the arc?
If so, that would account for the directional problem.
Let me hear your thoughts. Please!! This thing is driving me nuts.
Fred
Sorry I haven't posted today. Haven't gotten anything done towards solving this problem either.
Drove to Kansas City and back today for a funeral. I had a lot of time to think about it.
I think I have my true south pointed somewhere in the middle of G-11 and G-26. I would have to be close to center or I wouldn't get all the great Ku signal I get.
Hopefully tomorrow afternoon, weather permitting, I can get up there and make an adjustment of the whole assembly a little more.
When I get it set correctly, I think the East/West problem will go away. I'm hoping anyway.
Thanks,
Fred
Drove to Kansas City and back today for a funeral. I had a lot of time to think about it.
I think I have my true south pointed somewhere in the middle of G-11 and G-26. I would have to be close to center or I wouldn't get all the great Ku signal I get.
Hopefully tomorrow afternoon, weather permitting, I can get up there and make an adjustment of the whole assembly a little more.
When I get it set correctly, I think the East/West problem will go away. I'm hoping anyway.
Thanks,
Fred
Fred:
As far as the gap for your reed switch, I'd space that thing as close as possible. If the wheel has any wobble, that will hinder the operation (my original wheel had some wobble to it). I spaced mine with a couple of pieces of paper for the feeler guage. I noticed missed pulses if the gap was too large.
Good luck and keep those posts coming.
Harold
As far as the gap for your reed switch, I'd space that thing as close as possible. If the wheel has any wobble, that will hinder the operation (my original wheel had some wobble to it). I spaced mine with a couple of pieces of paper for the feeler guage. I noticed missed pulses if the gap was too large.
Good luck and keep those posts coming.
Harold
Hey Harold,
I'll change the gap today and move it closer. I didn't know if there would be any effect or not, but can't hurt.
Tuning this Birdview is much more difficult than any other dish I have tried. It doesn't have the nice bolts to adjust elevation and declination.
I think when I get it finished, it will be outstanding.
Thanks,
Fred
I'll change the gap today and move it closer. I didn't know if there would be any effect or not, but can't hurt.
Tuning this Birdview is much more difficult than any other dish I have tried. It doesn't have the nice bolts to adjust elevation and declination.
I think when I get it finished, it will be outstanding.
Thanks,
Fred
Well Harold,
Your suggestion helped, but didn't cure the problem.
I got on the roof today with a temp of 35F and a wind chill of 26 with steady winds of 15-25 mph and gusts to 35, removed the shroud, and adjusted the magnetic wheel closer to the sensor. It was skipping pulses now and then, and by doing that, I was able to adjust the Ku on G-26 and eliminate the bleed over of the EWTN C-Band channels onto G-26 C-Band from G-11.
I almost froze my little fingers to the nubs.
I am seeing even higher Ku signals than I got previously if you can believe that. More precise adjustment is now available.
The only other thing I can do to eliminate slop is to take out the second pin that is part of the motor and pinion gear shaft. The one pin you take out and slide the magnetic wheel on. Further down the shaft there is an adapter that makes the drive shaft bigger, and it has a U shaped slot where another pin goes through. There is about 3/8" - 1/2" of play there if the pin is all the way over to one side or the other. With this system that is probably at least 4 to 6 pulses. This is not something that has worn down. It was designed that way for some reason or another.
I can take out the second pin and try and find a bolt the same size, and nuts and/or washers to make up the play in that slot which might take enough of the play out to make it more precise when changing direction.
I hope I am explaining this with enough description. Do you remember the pin and slot I am describing?
I found a picture that I took before cleaning everything up. If you blow it up a little, you can see the slot and pin between the motor and pinion gear housing.
I don't think I can eliminate the problem by further peaking. Maybe I am wrong, but it appears to be peaked to the limit.
At any rate, I won't be able to do anything further until at least Saturday. The forecast is for more cold and wind tomorrow and Friday.
So any of you guys that have suggestions, I am all ears.
Thanks for all your help,
Fred
Your suggestion helped, but didn't cure the problem.
I got on the roof today with a temp of 35F and a wind chill of 26 with steady winds of 15-25 mph and gusts to 35, removed the shroud, and adjusted the magnetic wheel closer to the sensor. It was skipping pulses now and then, and by doing that, I was able to adjust the Ku on G-26 and eliminate the bleed over of the EWTN C-Band channels onto G-26 C-Band from G-11.
I almost froze my little fingers to the nubs.
I am seeing even higher Ku signals than I got previously if you can believe that. More precise adjustment is now available.
The only other thing I can do to eliminate slop is to take out the second pin that is part of the motor and pinion gear shaft. The one pin you take out and slide the magnetic wheel on. Further down the shaft there is an adapter that makes the drive shaft bigger, and it has a U shaped slot where another pin goes through. There is about 3/8" - 1/2" of play there if the pin is all the way over to one side or the other. With this system that is probably at least 4 to 6 pulses. This is not something that has worn down. It was designed that way for some reason or another.
I can take out the second pin and try and find a bolt the same size, and nuts and/or washers to make up the play in that slot which might take enough of the play out to make it more precise when changing direction.
I hope I am explaining this with enough description. Do you remember the pin and slot I am describing?
I found a picture that I took before cleaning everything up. If you blow it up a little, you can see the slot and pin between the motor and pinion gear housing.
I don't think I can eliminate the problem by further peaking. Maybe I am wrong, but it appears to be peaked to the limit.
At any rate, I won't be able to do anything further until at least Saturday. The forecast is for more cold and wind tomorrow and Friday.
So any of you guys that have suggestions, I am all ears.
Thanks for all your help,
Fred
Hey djkurious,
I sure as heck wish it was the other way around.
I'd much rather be letting someone else make the mistakes. I wish it wasn't so cold and windy. I would get a mirror and light and at least find out if the motor was a 70:1 motor or not and eliminate that possibility.
In some ways this dish is easy to set up. For instance the Focal distance is pre-set with the scalar rings perfectly parallel with the center of the dish. The F/D ratio was extremely easy too.
Elevation and declination is a bear. There are no bolts to adjust either. You take the bolts loose that hold it in position and it is all in your hands to move up or down. The declination is adjusted by adding and removing washers.
It is a heck of a lot of work, trial, and error.
All that said, it gets the best Ku signal I have ever seen. I might also say that the C-Band is outstanding too.
It is in short, a super-dish!!!
Just a bear to bring into modern times.
Thanks for your encouragement.
Fred
I sure as heck wish it was the other way around.
I'd much rather be letting someone else make the mistakes. I wish it wasn't so cold and windy. I would get a mirror and light and at least find out if the motor was a 70:1 motor or not and eliminate that possibility.
In some ways this dish is easy to set up. For instance the Focal distance is pre-set with the scalar rings perfectly parallel with the center of the dish. The F/D ratio was extremely easy too.
Elevation and declination is a bear. There are no bolts to adjust either. You take the bolts loose that hold it in position and it is all in your hands to move up or down. The declination is adjusted by adding and removing washers.
It is a heck of a lot of work, trial, and error.
All that said, it gets the best Ku signal I have ever seen. I might also say that the C-Band is outstanding too.
It is in short, a super-dish!!!
Just a bear to bring into modern times.
Thanks for your encouragement.
Fred
Fred
My Birdview had that same backlash between the shaft and pin. I cured it by drilling out the shaft and put a bolt thru it with a nylok nut.
Your photos illustrate why these Birdview systems were so expensive when they were new. They have more parts than a Swiss watch.
My inlaws had one of these systems back in the early 80's. One day, without warning, the video went haywire and was unwatchable. Blanked out every transponder. I think the satellite was G1. The local telephone system had fired up a terrestrial microwave C band link. I constructed a big screen wire shield with a PVC pipe frame. It was 12 feet square and the top was about 15 feet above grade. It was ugly but they had become addicted to satellite TV and thought I was a genious for fixing it so they could watch TV again.
Take care,
Harold
My Birdview had that same backlash between the shaft and pin. I cured it by drilling out the shaft and put a bolt thru it with a nylok nut.
Your photos illustrate why these Birdview systems were so expensive when they were new. They have more parts than a Swiss watch.
My inlaws had one of these systems back in the early 80's. One day, without warning, the video went haywire and was unwatchable. Blanked out every transponder. I think the satellite was G1. The local telephone system had fired up a terrestrial microwave C band link. I constructed a big screen wire shield with a PVC pipe frame. It was 12 feet square and the top was about 15 feet above grade. It was ugly but they had become addicted to satellite TV and thought I was a genious for fixing it so they could watch TV again.
Take care,
Harold
Thanks Harold,
Do you remember what size bolt you used?
Did you drill out the hole big enough where the head and nut fit over the top of the U slot, or inside of it?
I do the same thing with my in-laws, only with computers. I hooked up an electronic Yamaha keyboard to my Mother-in-law's computer so she could compose music with her software, and she thinks I am still a genius afte 5 years.
Fred
Do you remember what size bolt you used?
Did you drill out the hole big enough where the head and nut fit over the top of the U slot, or inside of it?
I do the same thing with my in-laws, only with computers. I hooked up an electronic Yamaha keyboard to my Mother-in-law's computer so she could compose music with her software, and she thinks I am still a genius afte 5 years.
Fred
Fred:
Drill it for which is larger, the shaft or slot. Best as I remember, the slot was wider so I drilled the shaft with .250" (1/4") but it may have been .3125" (5/16").
Harold
Drill it for which is larger, the shaft or slot. Best as I remember, the slot was wider so I drilled the shaft with .250" (1/4") but it may have been .3125" (5/16").
Harold
Thanks Harold,
Sounds like a plan, and maybe this will solve the problem, and I can put a lid on this project.
It is supposed to be in the mid 40's this afternoon, but the wind is still supposed to be high. If it isn't too bad, maybe I can do this job and get it finished up.
Thanks again for all your help!!
Fred
Sounds like a plan, and maybe this will solve the problem, and I can put a lid on this project.
It is supposed to be in the mid 40's this afternoon, but the wind is still supposed to be high. If it isn't too bad, maybe I can do this job and get it finished up.
Thanks again for all your help!!
Fred
WoooooHoooo!!!!!!! 
:up
That did it!!!!
I punched out the pin, drilled out the hole 5/16", and put an 1-1/2" bolt through, put the Ny-Lok nut on and tightened it down. I would have had clearance to put a 3/8" bolt through the slot, but the head would have been too big to clear the pinion housing right next door.
By tightening down the nut good and tight, the shaft no longer turns in the slot, and allows me to fine tune the Ku channels and after fine tuning for instance Montana PBS coming in from the West, I tune it up, move to SBS 6, and return, and may have to bump it a pulse or two, from then on, it comes back to that exact same spot no matter what direction I am coming from. After fine tuning Montana PBS, I am getting 60% SQ on it. I saw 75% on it today, but because of the fine tuning, I get 60% coming from both directions. I am happy with that considering that's the highest I have ever had that channel on any of my setups.
I also discovered why I have had so much trouble with fine tuning. I have a 37:1 gear ratio on my motor. That's ok, because it moves pretty fast across the arc, but makes fine tuning a bear.
As long as that bolt never slips, and the motor holds out I am in business. I don't think the bolt will ever slip, because it takes nothing to move the dish. I put a pair of pliers on the shaft, and easily turned it moving the whole dish at the same time.
I want to thank all of you for your help!!!!
I especially want to thank Harold (caddata) for his insight. Since he had a Birdview dish before, he offered invaluable advice on how to set it up. I couldn't have done it without you Harold. :up
This is a wonderful dish, and worth every minute I have spent on it. I can easily get signal from 30W to 148W and anything between if it has a beam that points to NA. I got signal on AMC8 and NASA on AMC7 last night. The Ku signal is superb!! The C-Band is 90% SQ on almost everything. Most at 99%.
I am using an old Co-Rotor (at least 15 years old) that I got on a dish I picked up last summer. I have a new Eagle Aspen .6db Ku LNB, and the original Cal-Amp Mini-Mag 25K C-Band LNB (probably same age as the Co-Rotor) that came on the Co-Rotor.
I put in the specs above not because I wanted to brag, but because I wanted to make a point. Even the best LNBs that you can buy, nor the best dish you can buy will do you any good unless they are properly set up and tuned.
Once you go to all the trouble of that much setup and tuning, you will find that much less expensive LNBs will serve just as well until they fail, or you get the opportunity to upgrade.
Linuxman is really, really, really happy today!!!
Fred
:up That did it!!!!
I punched out the pin, drilled out the hole 5/16", and put an 1-1/2" bolt through, put the Ny-Lok nut on and tightened it down. I would have had clearance to put a 3/8" bolt through the slot, but the head would have been too big to clear the pinion housing right next door.
By tightening down the nut good and tight, the shaft no longer turns in the slot, and allows me to fine tune the Ku channels and after fine tuning for instance Montana PBS coming in from the West, I tune it up, move to SBS 6, and return, and may have to bump it a pulse or two, from then on, it comes back to that exact same spot no matter what direction I am coming from. After fine tuning Montana PBS, I am getting 60% SQ on it. I saw 75% on it today, but because of the fine tuning, I get 60% coming from both directions. I am happy with that considering that's the highest I have ever had that channel on any of my setups.
I also discovered why I have had so much trouble with fine tuning. I have a 37:1 gear ratio on my motor. That's ok, because it moves pretty fast across the arc, but makes fine tuning a bear.
As long as that bolt never slips, and the motor holds out I am in business. I don't think the bolt will ever slip, because it takes nothing to move the dish. I put a pair of pliers on the shaft, and easily turned it moving the whole dish at the same time.
I want to thank all of you for your help!!!!
I especially want to thank Harold (caddata) for his insight. Since he had a Birdview dish before, he offered invaluable advice on how to set it up. I couldn't have done it without you Harold.
:upThis is a wonderful dish, and worth every minute I have spent on it. I can easily get signal from 30W to 148W and anything between if it has a beam that points to NA. I got signal on AMC8 and NASA on AMC7 last night. The Ku signal is superb!! The C-Band is 90% SQ on almost everything. Most at 99%.
I am using an old Co-Rotor (at least 15 years old) that I got on a dish I picked up last summer. I have a new Eagle Aspen .6db Ku LNB, and the original Cal-Amp Mini-Mag 25K C-Band LNB (probably same age as the Co-Rotor) that came on the Co-Rotor.
I put in the specs above not because I wanted to brag, but because I wanted to make a point. Even the best LNBs that you can buy, nor the best dish you can buy will do you any good unless they are properly set up and tuned.
Once you go to all the trouble of that much setup and tuning, you will find that much less expensive LNBs will serve just as well until they fail, or you get the opportunity to upgrade.
Linuxman is really, really, really happy today!!!
Fred
Fred:
Thanks for the kind words. I've enjoyed your saga, you'd be shocked how similar it was to mine. Really spooky.
I knew that once you got the thing close, it wouldn't take long to really zero it in. Mine stayed zeroed in for about 10 years, even thru several tornados and hail storms.
The whole Birdview story is kind of sad. Lower priced systems became their downfall. They were a status symbol in their time. Most systems back then still required "geek" knowledge to keep them going, but the Birdview was for those less inclined who just wanted to turn knobs and watch TV.
I spent a lot of time on mine just adding tywraps, terminal blocks, routing and rerouting wires, painting, greasing, and just killing time with it. Strange as it sounds, you could pop the hood on it and just admire the machine work and design of the gear drive. Can't do that now with these European USALS motors with their plastic gears and computer interfaces..
This is getting crazy, I'd best stop before I'm on a Rambo inspired mission back to Arkansas to kidnap my system back.
Enjoy the Birdview,
Harold
Thanks for the kind words. I've enjoyed your saga, you'd be shocked how similar it was to mine. Really spooky.
I knew that once you got the thing close, it wouldn't take long to really zero it in. Mine stayed zeroed in for about 10 years, even thru several tornados and hail storms.
The whole Birdview story is kind of sad. Lower priced systems became their downfall. They were a status symbol in their time. Most systems back then still required "geek" knowledge to keep them going, but the Birdview was for those less inclined who just wanted to turn knobs and watch TV.
I spent a lot of time on mine just adding tywraps, terminal blocks, routing and rerouting wires, painting, greasing, and just killing time with it. Strange as it sounds, you could pop the hood on it and just admire the machine work and design of the gear drive. Can't do that now with these European USALS motors with their plastic gears and computer interfaces..
This is getting crazy, I'd best stop before I'm on a Rambo inspired mission back to Arkansas to kidnap my system back.
Enjoy the Birdview,
Harold
somewhere in the "deep woods of arkansas" with his metal detector out , George is hunting "BIG Game "
:
lol
: lol
- Status
