Toshiba Goes Ahead With Its HD DVD Plans...

[db2]

Because I personally believe "Good Sony is a Dead Sony".

I'll probably regret asking this but why do you believe that?

I guess what I'm getting at is this: I was format neutral but eventually I ended up pulling for BD for a variety of reasons. If HD-DVD had won I would have started buying HD-DVD because I want to enjoy a HDM format, whichever one it is. Every since BD won (yes, it's over) I have seen many former HD-DVD fanboys now, "rooting" for BD and Sony to fail. Why??

If someone wants to keep purchasing HD-DVD hardware and software, fine.
If someone refuses to purchase Blu-Ray hardware or software forever, fine.
But why root for BD and Sony failure??

 

[diogen]

But why root for BD and Sony failure??

I have nothing against BD - have movies and enjoy them on my HTPC.
I posted about Sony before.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/hd-dvd-...06-once-again-sony-out-screw.html#post1188421

Diogen.

 

[teamerickson]

waits for the blue smurfs.......... get your flak jackets ready.

Speaking of smurfs...

Smurftastic! Belgian-created Smurfs turn 50 - Arts, books, more - MSNBC.com

 

[FlyingJ]

I'll probably regret asking this but why do you believe that?

I guess what I'm getting at is this: I was format neutral but eventually I ended up pulling for BD for a variety of reasons. If HD-DVD had won I would have started buying HD-DVD because I want to enjoy a HDM format, whichever one it is. Every since BD won (yes, it's over) I have seen many former HD-DVD fanboys now, "rooting" for BD and Sony to fail. Why??

If someone wants to keep purchasing HD-DVD hardware and software, fine.
If someone refuses to purchase Blu-Ray hardware or software forever, fine.
But why root for BD and Sony failure??

Because they are pissed?

Its a freaking press release. Written by a professional. I have had some written for my business in the past and I couldn't wait to meat the genius they were writing about...then I realised it was me.

 

[vurbano]

Speaking of smurfs...

Smurftastic! Belgian-created Smurfs turn 50 - Arts, books, more - MSNBC.com

Wow now JoeSP doesnt have to take the bag off his head.

 

[bsk116]

Toshiba and the companies supporting HD DVD have been pretty shortsighted in this battle with Sony in my august opinion.

One of the major assets of HD DVD was the ability to utilize current pressing equipment to produce the high definition DVDs. This means that older releases that have already been marketed as DVDs could have been re-pressed as HD DVDs at a nominal cost and remarketed at a low, low price--$9.95 or $11.95, that kind of thing. Trying to sell an HD DVD that has been marketed as a VHS release, then a DVD release, then shown on TV, then finally as HD DVD at a $29.95 price is asinine, stupid, and bordering on insanity. Especially when it costs pennies to preduce the actual product, maybe a dollar or dollar and a half.

If Toshiba loses this war, it will be totally because of greed.

But that's just my opinion, and I'm the proud owner of an HD XA2. It's a good machine, but I am bitter because there is no cheap product available for it. I will not pay $29.95 for an HD DVD movie that's 2, 3 or 4 years old. Think about it: IIRC they wanted $34.95 for a copy of Unforgiven, and that must be 10 years old!

Best regards to all, including Toshiba, Paramount, and Universal. Please get with it on marketing of reduced price content.

Fitzie

This should make all the Blu haters that like to see bleeding squeal with delight!Select Blu-ray titles offering $10 back if you own DVD version - Engadget HD

 

[toto]

This is my take. Paramount exclusive is over the end of this year. They do have an out if Warner goes Blu Ray. That only leaves Universal with any kind of support. I originally supported HDVD, but soon saw the inevitability of Blu Ray. Toshiba said they would continue to support HDVD through 2008. The Japanese companies exhibit so much togetherness, that many of their deeds would be outlawed in the USA. Don't place to much emphasis on competiveness between Toshiba and Sony. Do place a huge emphasis on Microsoft X-Box VS Playstation3. Microsoft erred in not place HDDVD inside their game system from the get go, even if it would have caused a delay.

 

[jokeworm]

I've also held off buying and the recent announcement at first pushed me further way from buying either format ... however right now the chance to get an up converting dvd player combined with a hd dvd player and seven movies for $130 almost makes it a no-brainer ...

I'm probably even further away from putting my money down on a Blu-Ray setup than i was before ... because of the current price-points.

I am leaning towards grabbing a HD DVD player now cos I have got nothing to loose at that price .. (7 regular dvd's would cost me around that much even without the hardware) and if or when the format war does tip towards blu-ray the prices on those players should be much more to my liking. (I'll probably be more likely to bite at a price below $200)

If the format war does not go to blu-ray - I'll also be happy cos I'll still have a HD DVD player.

Either way - the recent announcement has actually moved me closer to owning a hd dvd player much more than it has put me off owning one... strange.

 

[diogen]

...many of their deeds would be outlawed in the USA.

That reminded me of my favorite 2005 movie, Syriana and this quote:

Corruption charges! Corruption? Corruption is government intrusion into market efficiencies in the form of regulations. That's Milton Friedman. He got a goddamn Nobel Prize. We have laws against it precisely so we can get away with it. Corruption is our protection. Corruption keeps us safe and warm. Corruption is why you and I are prancing around in here instead of fighting over scraps of meat out in the streets. Corruption is why we win.

Taken from here
Syriana (2005) - Memorable quotes

Diogen.

 

[navychop]

Bah...general consumers will never download and install a firmware upgrade. We might, they won't.

Both are doomed. If they give up the DRM, either would fly. In lieu of that, buy stock in people that deliver Video via download. Pick your poison whether it is Satellite or online.

Let's see- you express some dissatisfaction with DRM, then promote a medium that likely has more DRM than any other? Huh?

 

[vurbano]

Until last week I was dead set against downloads and all of you know it. But after seeing the specs on XtremeHD service I am quite impressed. I NEVER thought we would ever see 1080p via satellite and with bitrates even higher then BD???? with DTS -HD master audio??? 80mbit/s??? I am speechless. And I can own it as well on hard drive or optical media. ANyone that hasnt seen Goaliebob's interview on this needs to watch it.

 

[TheForce]

Vurbano- I was not impressed with what I saw them display. It appears that the 1080p samples they had on display were being clobbered by compression pixelation and image softness. I was excited about the concept and hoped the price would be affordable, but after 20 minutes at their booth at CES... I'll have to pass on this one. HD DVD and Blu Ray Disk runs rings around their PQ.

 

[vurbano]

Vurbano- I was not impressed with what I saw them display. It appears that the 1080p samples they had on display were being clobbered by compression pixelation and image softness. I was excited about the concept and hoped the price would be affordable, but after 20 minutes at their booth at CES... I'll have to pass on this one. HD DVD and Blu Ray Disk runs rings around their PQ.

At this point we dont even know if that sample was even broadcast from the satellite that they will be using. No reason for compression artifacts if the specs are correct. You cannot judge on 1st impressions, if you do there is no way you woud buy into BD after seeing the original ROBOCRAP on BD. It could have been a myriad of things, probably the encoding of the sample.

 

[JoeSp]

First Toshiba starts this format war because they cannot agree with the DVD Steering Committee that at the time they chaired! After the DVD steering committee elected to go with a blue laser technology which later became BluRay, Toshiba decided to go in a differant direction. Toshiba could not stand not owning the next gen disc system because they owned the DVD plate. So they went on their own and launched HD-DVD with NEC.

Now in the face of insurmountable odds they have decided to continue this war because in the end if they cannot win this format war maybe they can damaged BD enough so that BD cannot replace DVD. And the folks who support this direction are just as damaged as those who think that Toshiba's pushing a dead format is going to somehow win them something that is already lost.

Well as always it is your money to spend. However, this is the last ditch effort of a company who is on the brink of a image disaster. Toshiba has lost, and continued effort on their part will not endear them to the studios nor to other CE manufacturers.

The real question is, who is going to refund the retailers for all those HD-DVD customers who in the next few weeks are going to be taking back their XMAS gifts and demanding a refund to match the current prices of Toshiba's HD-DVD players. And are those retailers going to want to carry the HD-DVD product when they know it will hurt both the consumer and the retailer's image.

Can't wait to see how this plays out.

 

[VinceT3]

What crack are you on Joe?

DVD consordium went WITH HD-DVD.. sony broke off from them to create blu-ray w/ various others promising profit upon profit..

 

[diogen]

It's nice to see that you queitly dropped your claim - in your best traditions completely stupid - that Blu-ray was the answer to DVD Forum activities. You even moved the discussion to another thread. No, I don't expect your admission you were wrong despite your claim you always do...

First Toshiba starts this format war because they cannot agree with the DVD Steering Committee that at the time they chaired!

WTF does this mean?
Toshiba was chairing the DVD Forum at that time. The Forum, not the Steering Committee! Got it?
The Steering Committee has as much say in what DVD Forum should do as your grandson has in telling you how to drive a car.
Because the Committee is created by the Forum. But I think I know where this confusion came from (hint: read the reference [13] next to this quote):

However, in spite of this decision, the DVD Forum's Steering Committee announced in April that it was pursuing its own blue-laser high-definition solution

taken from your favorite source
Blu-ray Disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"In spite of this decision" doesn't mean the Steering Committee decided to go their own way, but DVD Forum was pursuing the blue laser route despite announcing two month earlier using DVD9.

This pretty much takes care of all the stupid garbage in the rest of your post.
No, I don't expect you to admit you were wrong this time either...

Diogen.

 

[JonUrban]

Why do BluRay fanboys give a crap what Toshiba does. Be quiet and watch your discs. Time will tell the story, not some biased posts in an internet forum.

 

[TheForce]

At this point we dont even know if that sample was even broadcast from the satellite that they will be using. No reason for compression if the specs are correct. You cannot judge on 1st impressions, if you do there is no way you woud buy into BD after seeing the original ROBOCRAP on BD. It could have been a myriad of things, probably the encoding of the sample.

Actually, I do know that unless you wish to claim they were faking at the show. There was no satellite feed. They don't have that arranged yet.

They made no claims as to what support they will have from the studios, nor what satellite they will be using, if that even matters. The system was using the file codecs they will use in their server and client. If you believe the programming will be "uncompressed" 1080p then you seriously are in la la land with HiDef technology. ALL Hi def is compressed! I would agree that first impressions are bad on this as far as the PQ is concerned. In fact, I'd be stretching it a bit if I said they were equal to VOOM quality. As a matter of fact, it looked more like the PQ we see on TNT HD or A&E. But that would not be a fair technical analysis. Just a PQ comparison. If it makes you happy, I'll admit the technical process needs lots of work to come up to HD DVD or BluRay PQ. First impressions? Don't know about Robocop but the first demos I saw at NAB on BluRay prototype from Sony were much better. XStreamHD is looking for investors, not subscribers at this stage. The technology is still in the rough but I feel they need to offer, up front, the claims of 1080px1920 or the satellite service concept will be DOA. Sorry if you don't like my eye-witness opinion and disappointment. Remember, I was the one who broke the news on this here at Satelliteguys.us. However, I know better than to defend a technology on paper specs alone. They just don't tell the whole story. Sorry!

 

[vurbano]

What crack are you on Joe?

DVD consordium went WITH HD-DVD.. sony broke off from them to create blu-ray w/ various others promising profit upon profit..

:up:up:up

 

[vurbano]

Actually, I do know that unless you wish to claim they were faking at the show. There was no satellite feed. They don't have that arranged yet.

I didnt think it was arranged yet from what the rep said. And yet you make a PQ judgement about what the service will look like and dismiss it before seeing the product in action.

They made no claims as to what support they will have from the studios, nor what satellite they will be using, if that even matters. The system was using the file codecs they will use in their server and client. If you believe the programming will be "uncompressed" 1080p then you seriously are in la la land with HiDef technology. ALL Hi def is compressed!

I meant that there was no reason for compression artifacts you saw if they are transmitting at that high a bitrate. Ive corrected the post if that makes you happy. If you saw them it was most likely a lousy encoding job. The success of their PQ will boil down to their encoding equipment IMO.But then again you havent seen anything they have transmitted yet. No one has and if it lives up to the specs it could seriously damage HDM adoption.