Soft Focus 811 DVI into Samsung hlp4663

[timclark]

Hi
New to Dish Network, new to 811 new to Samsung and new to the forum. I just had Dish installed with an 811 going to a Samsung DLP hlp4663 set via DVI. One thing I noticed right off the bat was that the Comcast analog PQ directly into the Samsung (no cable box) was sharper than the Dish channels for local and for non-local SD feeds. The Dish feeds all look very soft. (Sharpness control on the Samsung doesn't really have any affect on either component or DVI as far as I can see).

I was expecting a mild improvement going to Dish and to say I was disappointed would be putting it mildly. (Wife is ready to disown me at this point).

The Samsung has not been calibrated on the DVI input as I haven't found any calibration channels on Dish yet (still looking ..)

As far as HD goes, the quality was very good although I made the mistake of wheeling out the Sony 36XBR400 and feeding it component from the 811 and in a side by side compare, the Sony direct view had a significantly better HD PQ than the Samsung. Probably mostly attributable to the better black levels I suppose but it was disheartening.

Always frustrating to spend a lot of money and time to make improves only to find you may have taken a step backwards.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Tim

 

[GaryPen]

the Sony direct view had a significantly better HD PQ than the Samsung.

Were you actually surprised by this?

 

[NightRyder]

I thought about waiting to post and let someone else break the bad news but...

1. In order to cram the number of local channels they are now carrying both E* and D* compress the hell out of the signal. The result is in Dish's case a soft looking picture. DirecTV picture is sharper but more of the digital artifacts are visible. How DBS compares to cable varies greatly from area to area. In your case it sounds like you have a superior cable system. If you don't have DNIE enabled on your Samsung turn it on and it will help some. Nothing you can do will likely improve the picture any great amount.

2. A direct view set (even the same size) will always look better than a projection set. In this case your comparing a picture that is only utilizing part of a 36" 4x3 screen to one that is a full 46" on a 16x9 one.

I always follow three very important rules before making major purchases. Research, research, research.

Hope you have a nice couch to sleep on. You have my sympathy.

NightRyder

 

[timclark]

As for being surprised, the difference between the two sets with a DVD feed are not that different. I expected the black levels to be better on the CRT but I had expected the DLP to put up a better showing. With the SAT feed it definitely widened the gap.

I found that with the SAT feed, there was very little benefit to the DVI input.

As far as research, I generally do that to death before spending a dime but unfortunately with something like Satallite, you don't know until you try.

Some of my neighbors have Dish but no cable to compare it to. Tough desision.

I'm on the lease program so guess I'll give it a try for a while.


Thanks again for your comments.
Tim

 

[NightRyder]

Tim, I have a Samsung HLN507W1. Here are a few things I've learned.

1. Initially. Get the set off the factory settings. Use the custom settings and tweak the Contrast, Brightness.Color and Sharpness by eye until you get the best picture.

2. The lamp in these sets takes about 100 hrs to settle in and achieve it's normal brightness and color. The SD picture will improve as this occurs.

3. After 100 hrs. use a good calibration DVD and/or the test patterns on HD-NET to make adjustments.

4. Depending on how comfortable you are with such things there are service menu adjustments you can make that will help the overall picture.

5. Make sure you have you 811 set to output 1080i.

6. If you haven't discovered www.avsforum.com yet, do so. There is a wealth of information there on getting the most from your set.

BTW - Welcome to Satellite Guys!

NightRyder

 

[cpdretired]

Here is the code to enter the service menu. With the TV power off using the remote enter the following. Mute-1-8-2-Power. You will now see the service menu.

Each of the settings has a current number value. Before making any changes write down the current number and the setting name. There is no reset to factory values that I am aware of.

I have the 50" Sammy. There were two changes that I made as it was pushing too much green. G. Gain from 120 to 117 & G. Offset from 127 to 121. You will be able to see what you are doing thru a transparent screen. Warning there are some settings that I have no idea what they are. If in doubt don't adjust.

When you are finished press power to turn off the TV. Turn the TV back on as you normally would.

NightRyder is correct. Give the bulb a 100 hours burn in.

A little side note. I was watching the TV one evening. Walking along the inside of the screen was a spider. Well I thought he would go away but he didn't. The little guy spun a web. I had to take the front bezel loose. A clean lint free towel was dangled inside to catch the web. So far the little guy has yet to return. He must have expensive tastes as this ain't a cheap TV.

In addition to Dish I have Voom. Voom has a better SD picture than Dish. The HD on both services are great.

 

[chastulsa]

Dvi On Sd

Well for one dont use a DVI Cable to view SD. Hook up a S-video cable and you will see the picture double in quality. You are upscaling 300 lines of existing information to about 1000. Basically your taking color from the top line and bottom line and doubling it. eventually you get a fake line on top and bottom causing a "CRAPPY PICTURE". I sell DLP's and I have a S-video hooked up to show non-hd channels. if I didnt I would not sell as many. \



-Chas

 

[pychiowa]

Tim, isn't your Sony 36XBR400 only able to display 480p? If so, are you saying that the 811 feed into the Sony at 480p looks superior to an HD feed (720p, 1080i?) into the HLP4663? Just curious..

 

[Carl B]

First off, over on the AVS Forum there has been a lot of discussion regarding the "softer" PQ with the new Sammy HLPs versus the HLNs. I have an HLN and I like the sharpness, but apparently a lot of folks didn't, so Samsung altered somethings to soften the PQ in their newest models.

At several of the stores I viewed HDTVs at last summer, I was told that the sharpest HD PQ was with a CRT. I agreed. But, they don't produce the color saturation of a DLP or plasma, they have the old glass screen glare problem, and, as you are probably well aware, they weigh a ton. Your Sammy is also displaying several square feet more picture. The wider you spread those SD and lesser pictures, the more obvious the shortcomings of the source.

I to had to deal with the WAF when I got a Sammy DLP last summer. No HD the first 5 months so I had to deal with the poor PQ complaints. After installing new cable and using a HTS-3600 power center, the complaints pretty much stopped, and this was with an old 2700 receiver.

With the 811, SD PQ goes from acceptable to excellent. It depends on the channel and it depends on what Dish is up to. Premium channels are generally excellent and a couple of weeks ago Dish started providing an improved SD signal so even the locals are acceptable. However my locals via OTA DTV (SD) are always better than the best Dish local PQ. Sometimes Dish local PQ can be just crap.

I use the DVI input for all viewing. I keep the HD setting on the 811 on 1080i unless I'm watching a known 720p HD source such as ESPN-HD. I have an S-Video and a composite connection from the 811 to my Sammy also. I don't see any PQ improvement when viewing with those inputs. In general, they don't look as sharp as the DVI input.

From what I've seen, Comcast cable here in metro-Denver has made PQ improvements since I dumped them almost 5 years ago. However, the improved PQ isn't consistent across their channels. The lower channels with all the locals and such is still really an analog feed and it looks it.

Be careful with the Service Menu stuff. Some folks have encounter warranty refusals when the techs discovered that the service menu had been messed with. But, everyone's situation will likely be different.

 

[timclark]

All
Thanks for all the suggestions. Chastulsa, I'll give the S-video a try on the SD. cpdretired, thanks for the Service Menu codes. I watched the Dealer service guy fix the geometry last week, he could have used your notes. It took him 5 tries to get in there. He was probably fixing a washer before he came to my house ;-) It will be good to have as a last resort, but I know you can really screw things up in there.

Carl, I asked the Samsung support guys about the sharpness control on the HLP because it has zero affect on component or DVI. (I have been an avid user of VE and Avia for some time and regularly check my settings.) His guess was that it should not even be accessible in the user menu for those inputs but he is getting verification of that. I will look at 1080i again although in my prior attempts the quality between that and 720p wasn't any different so I left it at 720p being the native resolution for the set (or so I am told).

 

[Carl B]

Other than ESPN-HD, ABC OTA HDTV, and come fall, Fox, all the HDTV sources are 1080i. Your Sammy is 720p native. The conversion has to occur somewhere. Your $3K Sammy's scaler is better than your $400 811's scaler, go figure. Leave the HDTV input set on 1080i unless you will be doing some extended viewing of live sports in HD on one of the aforementioned channels.

My comment about sharpness was to the HLP model you bought and the HLN models of last year. There is considerable discussion of this over on the AVS Forum. For example:

<http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=433949>

 

[Carl B]

Can't paste a URL in quick reply so here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=433949
and
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=412073

 

[timclark]

Once again, thanks. I have been watching AVS but the topics don't always pop up where you would expect them to be.

Tim