It is a new dawn at DISH.

[mike123abc]

People care more about the programming than the technology. It is the programming that drives the consumers when it comes to TV, not the technology. Your perspective may be a little skewed due to the nature of your job. Keep in mind that you may get more complaints about technology vs programming because you sold them the technology. More than likely to be the case, when they want to complain about the programming they will probably call Dish directly, not the company that sold them Dish. And that probably includes your customers as well. When they want to complain about the equipment they will probably call the company that sold them the equipment

Independent contracted dealers and installers will tend to attract that small minority of subs that go hardware shopping and place hardware a little higher on their priority list than most other subs.

The majority of all subs probably tend to put provider first and technology second or even lower. These subs are probably going to call the provider directly to set up an install. Thus when they want to complain about the programming they will most likely call Dish directly and not the installation company.

There only needs to be a minimum of programming. Then price and convenience takes over. You would be surprised how much people would be willing to give up to save a few bucks. Walmart proves a large number of Americans would prefer cheap over quality.

That being said, there is a large group of Americans that will choose programming over price, but you are making the mistake of believing that they want the same programming that you want. When in fact the viewing habits of Americans is very fractured and becoming more and more fractured. The most demanded channels in HD are actually local channels (the big 4). Viewership numbers drop very rapidly after that. Dish has excellent HD coverage of the top cable channels. Note full time RSNs are not in the top cable lineup, and they have them covered when the ratings mattered.

Dish carries a ton of HD programming. Enough to cover a large majority of picky customers. Yes there will be customers that do not align with Dish, but Dish has never promised to be all things to all people. Personally DIRECTV does not have certain channels that I like in HD, so they have not even been considered as an alternative for me. Is that a shocker? DIRECTV does not have channels that are a deal breaker for certain people?

I am tired of DIRECTV subs ragging on Dish for not having the channels they want. Why does not DIRECTV carry the HD channels I want instead?

 

[JM42]

What customers are Dish turning away?

They aren't telling folks on the phone "we're not a fit for you, call cable," but every pricing decision or programming contract they do or don't accept is a decision on what customers to potentially turning away. They are turing away RSN customers. They are turning away Disney HD customers. They are turning away ESPNU customers. They are turning away WPCH customers in my market(Atlanta). It's not like they don't realize this.

Dish is dealing with large enough numbers and enough experience that they should be able to predict within reasonable margins how a decision will effect subs. I doubt they have been surprised by the results of most of their decisions.

I think your a sports guy and are missing the RSN's etc. If I cared about sports I probably wouldn't be with Dish, but I don't. I have had all the sports stations locked and hidden from the guide for years - just wasted space to scroll through. From my viewpoint, Dish has done nothing but improve service and selection over the years.

It's simple math. ...but I don't see how I as a customer am better off because of their higher profits.

If they aren't making the margins they want then they will adjust prices or content accordingly, you might be even more upset than you are now.

 

[DodgerKing]

Surprising that I disagree. More than 90% of all customers I've acquired via advertising in the past 3 years have come from the number 2 ESPN radio affiliate in the country. My customers are VERY sport centric. If not having the RSN in HD 24-7 was an issue, activations would be lower and churn would be higher. However, you may be correct when saying they're not calling me to complain, but they don't appear to be canceling either because my 3-year churn is under 1.5%. If my perception was wrong my churn would be substantially higher.

I will agree that not having a specific high visabilty channel can make a difference. When DISH lost the local FSN for a month my phone exploded and my churn escalated. So yes, you're partially correct, programming can drive some consumers. However, retrans issues aside, both DISH and DTV carry virtually all the same channels, just packaged differently. DISH has more everyday HD than DTV. DTV has the Ticket, DISH has the RedZone. But, by and large, the channels are the channels, so if programming drives consumers why are they (and I'm assuming by your post) choosing DTV over DISH?

If it's not the programming, what is it? 95% of my customers have a DVR. Simple fact is DVRs create sticky customers. Customers who don't have a DVR are churning in record numbers. Which ties back to my previous post, the DISH Player was a complete and total epic fail. However, I realized right away that a DVR, even one as bad as the DISH Player, created sticky customers. To further illustrate my point, I had $30K in chargebacks in the first 10-18 months after I started my business but prior to DVRs. In the 9 years since I installed my first DISH Player (then 501, 508, 510, 522, 625, 622, 722 ...) my churn dropped substantially and my bottom line improved exponentially.

All that said, acquiring new DISH customers is becoming substantially harder. Not because of the channels, and not because of price, but because someone who currently has whole-home DVR services and more than one HDTV is rarely going to switch to DISH. Consumers today are more technically savvy than they were even 18 months ago. If it was all about the programming then the Hopper/Joey system would be a pipe dream, DTV would't have whole home DVR, and cable would still have push button boxes.

I was more addressing the complaint point you made. Since your company sales equipment when something goes wrong equipment wise they will likely contact you. Since Dish is providing the service so when something goes wrong programming wise they will likely contact Dish instead of you.

 

[dan188]

is it a error on the site saying siriusxm comes with at120+ pack and above or is it still at200 and above??

 

[Mr Tony]

AT200 for Sirius

AT120 has the CD channels (950-990)

 

[king3pj]

I think your a sports guy and are missing the RSN's etc. If I cared about sports I probably wouldn't be with Dish, but I don't. I have had all the sports stations locked and hidden from the guide for years - just wasted space to scroll through. From my viewpoint, Dish has done nothing but improve service and selection over the years.

If they aren't making the margins they want then they will adjust prices or content accordingly, you might be even more upset than you are now.

Well like I said earlier I am happy with Dish in general. I'm not upset I just pointed out that higher profit from fewer subs means that they are making a higher profit margin on all of us that are still customers than they were in the past. Part of that increased profit margin is from the channels they are no longer paying for, while keeping our prices the same.

You're right I am a sports guy. People always say if you like sports you shouldn't be with Dish. I disagree. Sure I would like ESPNU HD and full time HD RSNs. The HD RSNs aren't as big of a deal to me as they used to be because they increased the amount of HD sports they show at a time now. Since around June or July last year there haven't been any Tigers games I tried to watch that weren't in HD and very few Pistons or Redwings games. They also offer NFL Network, NFL Redzone, MLB Network, NBA Network, NHL Network, and NBC sports.

Charter is the cable provider in my area. They didn't offer NFL Network or NFL Redzone until this Fall and they still don't offer NHL or NBA network. Sports fans in my area get a lot more sports, and in HD, on Dish than they can get from Cable. I am a sports fan and I'm happy with Dish for the most part. I believe they are the best overall provider for me and my family and that's why I chose them.

Edit: I forgot to include CBS Sports in the list of sports channels Dish carries that cable doesn't in my area.

 

[dan188]

AT200 for Sirius

AT120 has the CD channels (950-990)

looks like an error then. when I brought up the 120+ channels it said siriuszm is included as well as fsc and fule. also says espn u in included

 

[Scherrman]

Well like I said earlier I am happy with Dish in general. I'm not upset I just pointed out that higher profit from fewer subs means that they are making a higher profit margin on all of us that are still customers than they were in the past. Part of that increased profit margin is from the channels they are no longer paying for, while keeping our prices the same.

You're right I am a sports guy. People always say if you like sports you shouldn't be with Dish. I disagree. Sure I would like ESPNU HD and full time HD RSNs. The HD RSNs aren't as big of a deal to me as they used to be because they increased the amount of HD sports they show at a time now. Since around June or July last year there haven't been any Tigers games I tried to watch that weren't in HD and very few Pistons or Redwings games. They also offer NFL Network, NFL Redzone, MLB Network, NBA Network, NHL Network, and NBC sports.

Charter is the cable provider in my area. They didn't offer NFL Network or NFL Redzone until this Fall and they still don't offer NHL or NBA network. Sports fans in my area get a lot more sports, and in HD, on Dish than they can get from Cable. I am a sports fan and I'm happy with Dish for the most part. I believe they are the best overall provider for me and my family and that's why I chose them.

I agree. My wife and I are huge sports fans and that is what we watch most of the time. There is nothing I can watch on Direct that I can't watch on Dish. I guess I have the luxury of all my favorite teams being in my region. I very rarely miss a Cubs game or a Bears game. My wife gets to watch her crappy Cardinals games. We never miss any Iowa football or basketball games. We even get to watch a few wrestling meets. If a game doesn't happen to be on TV I can usually find it online. Also, every game I watch seems to be in HD. I have no reason to spend more money to have Direct.

 

[Laddyboy]

Well like I said earlier I am happy with Dish in general. I'm not upset I just pointed out that higher profit from fewer subs means that they are making a higher profit margin on all of us that are still customers than they were in the past. Part of that increased profit margin is from the channels they are no longer paying for, while keeping our prices the same.

Are you referring to the Disney Group HD channels? Dish never paid anything for those which is part of the dispute with Disney and why Disney is withholding them. What other channels were dropped other than a NY RSN? I don't recall them off the top of my head.

 

[king3pj]

Even though they didn't pay for the Disney channels before they are still saving money that the other providers are paying now. I wasn't specifically talking about those channels though or even specifically current disputes. The NY RSNs are part of what I was talking about and so are all the FSNs and FX that were dropped in the past. There are also threads all the time about people losing their locals.

It has gone all over the place now but my original point was that it has frustrated me now and in the past when Dish removes a channel during a dispute and members of this forum act like they are doing us a favor. They say that Dish is taking a stand against these channels to save us money. Yet, the other providers who haven't dropped channels as frequently as Dish in the past have very similar pricing after similar equipment is factored in.

I admit it was more of a problem in the past than it is now but the topic was brought up now so I said what i thought about it. Most of the channels they pulled eventually came back. Some didn't like those RSNs. They are making higher profits with less subscribers because they aren't passing those savings on to us.

 

[Tampa8]

king3pj

I see your point, some have made it before. But is it possible the price freeze was able to be done because they don't carry those RSN's or just pay what the locals networks wanted? And maybe that's why in general Dish is less expensive than Direct? Or that they were able to give a year of Starz? Depending on how much Dish goes up when the freeze is over, they could be even less than before the the Direct price increases and whatever the Dish price increase is.
There are different ways to pass that savings along, not always just in the everyday price. In addition to the above, How easy or hard is it to get upgrades, how many options for the person with little to spend, etc.... I don't doubt Dish making money off not carrying the expensive programming. I just am not convinced that we don't see any of that savings.

 

[Yespage]

king3pj

I see your point, some have made it before. But is it possible the price freeze was able to be done because they don't carry those RSN's or just pay what the locals networks wanted?

Umm... the price freeze wasn't a "price freeze". For all intents and purposes, they rose the rates to what they would have charged us in 2012... in 2011, and then said they wouldn't increase rates again for couple years. So in reality, the "price freeze" was.. retroactive in a sense. Stuff costs money and costs increase with time, so a price hike doesn't bother me much. I just didn't like it being spun as if they were doing us a favor.

And maybe that's why in general Dish is less expensive than Direct?

This I'll agree. Though, Directv offers stuff to subs like UEFA, Super Rugby, NASCAR Hotpass to their subscribers at no extra cost and they have the NFL Ticket exclusively. So Directv has a bit more overhead, I'd say. Also, Dish makes people pay more for equipment.

There are different ways to pass that savings along, not always just in the everyday price. In addition to the above, How easy or hard is it to get upgrades, how many options for the person with little to spend, etc.... I don't doubt Dish making money off not carrying the expensive programming. I just am not convinced that we don't see any of that savings.

I think those who no longer get the RSN because Dish doesn't carry it should at least have a bone thrown towards them. Not carrying the RSN might be good for the bottom line, but it is a tough thing to lose if you live your local team, and all the other subscribers were getting their local action. It'd be like people in NY not being able to get the Science channel, but still paying the same Top 200, while everyone else still got Science.

 

[KAB]

I wish more people had taken a business major. They would know there is more to profit than buy low, sell high.

 

[king3pj]

If you're referring to me I have an accounting degree I will have my CPA this summer and I have begun taking over management of our family business (its a public accounting firm). I do know what profit is.

 

[KAB]

If you're referring to me I have an accounting degree I will have my CPA this summer and I have begun taking over management of our family business (its a public accounting firm). I do know what profit is.

No, Mr. Paranoid, not referring to you. Although I probably would not hire you after all this.

 

[GaryPen]

Not disputing any of the points made, but WE all have options and based on the # of customers that Dish loses each quarter, it's obviously not causing any mass exodus from Dish...

It might be, if you factor in the number they add. If the net result is still a lower number of total subs, then they are losing a shipload.

 

[Hall]

The skeptics would have you believe Dish gained NO new customers, only lost existing customers.

 

[Stargazer]

One problem is they are replacing some existing customers that are paying the regular non-promotional rates with some that are on a promotional rate so some that are replacing the existing ones are paying even less. Others are probably leaving after their promotional period ends. Some are switching back and forth between Direct/Dish/Cable getting a new promo every time. Would it be cheaper to give all good paying customers a promotion all the time? I think that is part of their intent with HD for life. Perhaps they figure they would lose more in discounts to existing subscribers than to do things like they are now. As time goes on they should be gaining additional subscribers that pay full non-promotional rates.

All these extra fees the keep tacking on and raising the price on are making them buttloads of money. I bet a good percentage of their income are off of those fees and more than making up for the subscriber losses that they are experiencing. I feel like they are experimenting with the fees to see what they can get away with charging but then again it is a business and they want to maximize profits. If they make an average of $20-25 per subscriber off of the programming then look at the additional fees on your account. Many people pay that much in additional fees. That can be half their profit on some of their subscribers.

 

[digitalblue]

I was more addressing the complaint point you made. Since your company sales equipment when something goes wrong equipment wise they will likely contact you. Since Dish is providing the service so when something goes wrong programming wise they will likely contact Dish instead of you.

We participate in the DISH Service Plan program so all of my customers that call DISH with a service issues and require a tech visit are then in essence routed back to my company. DISH attempts basic troubleshooting and if they can't fix the problem then the CSR sets a service appointment and the job is routed to us. We get about two of those a month.

 

[digitalblue]

looks like an error then. when I brought up the 120+ channels it said siriuszm is included as well as fsc and fule. also says espn u in included

DISH moved access to SiriusXM to the AT120 on February 1, and yes, FSC and Fuel are in the AT120 Plus.