My guess is we will see a quarter report of between a -5000 to -15000 subs. But I also think this will be the last neg numbers we will see sub additions wise for dish for a while!
It is a new dawn at DISH.
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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I been with Dish going on 3 years now, so I'm really still a newbe compared to a lot of you out there. For my family needs Dish has served me well with the 722k and my 200 pack. When the 922 came out I was really interested in it, but I hadn't finished my 2 years yet so I wasn't a candidate for it. Saying that, if I would have gotten a 922 I'm sure from what has been posted in this forum I would have been really PO at Dish for dropping the ball on it. So I understand the frustration with Dish from certain members. But I feel )or maybe it's blind hope), that Dish is working on a way to really turn things around. Dish would not be the only company that have "promised" things, then for reasons known only to Dish, never went through with them. I very excited about the Hopper, and if it fits my needs when it comes out, I hope on getting one. Dish has many positive things going for it, and yes, some negative things too. (The Guide, BB@Home listing/searching, software glitches on the 722k, etc.)
I agree with Digitalblue about the difference in SatelliteGuys members not being like most consumers. Us members tend to have higher expectations from our equipment and providers then most. We pretty much live and breath this stuff and we are the ones that Joe down the block calls when he can't get his remote to work right 'cause we will fix it.
I posted a few weeks back that in my wife's WalMart DirectV had set up a table and was trying to get people to sign up with them. I was standing off to the side, just in ear shot, and I was (happily) surprised at the number of people who told them "I have Dish!" and walked away. Even a few people that they stopped long enough to give their sales pitch, still said no and walked away.
When it comes to electronics, and especially with the way our economy is right now, IMO, it's very hard for Dish and other companies to proceed with a plan craved in stone for the future. Just way to many variables out there now days. A company has to be flexible.
Ghpr13
Disclaimer: I'm not excited about the Hopper just because Hopper has been my nickname since 1972, and it really looks cool seeing it all over the place.
I agree with Digitalblue about the difference in SatelliteGuys members not being like most consumers. Us members tend to have higher expectations from our equipment and providers then most. We pretty much live and breath this stuff and we are the ones that Joe down the block calls when he can't get his remote to work right 'cause we will fix it.
I posted a few weeks back that in my wife's WalMart DirectV had set up a table and was trying to get people to sign up with them. I was standing off to the side, just in ear shot, and I was (happily) surprised at the number of people who told them "I have Dish!" and walked away. Even a few people that they stopped long enough to give their sales pitch, still said no and walked away.
When it comes to electronics, and especially with the way our economy is right now, IMO, it's very hard for Dish and other companies to proceed with a plan craved in stone for the future. Just way to many variables out there now days. A company has to be flexible.
Ghpr13
Disclaimer: I'm not excited about the Hopper just because Hopper has been my nickname since 1972, and it really looks cool seeing it all over the place.
People care more about the programming than the technology. It is the programming that drives the consumers when it comes to TV, not the technology. Your perspective may be a little skewed due to the nature of your job. Keep in mind that you may get more complaints about technology vs programming because you sold them the technology. More than likely to be the case, when they want to complain about the programming they will probably call Dish directly, not the company that sold them Dish. And that probably includes your customers as well. When they want to complain about the equipment they will probably call the company that sold them the equipment
Independent contracted dealers and installers will tend to attract that small minority of subs that go hardware shopping and place hardware a little higher on their priority list than most other subs.
The majority of all subs probably tend to put provider first and technology second or even lower. These subs are probably going to call the provider directly to set up an install. Thus when they want to complain about the programming they will most likely call Dish directly and not the installation company.
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What HD channels are out there that Dish doesn't currently carry (do not include regional channels) ? I'm asking in all seriousness.
espn news,Disney,plus a bunch of others they have listed under "HD channels" on their website.. http://www.dish.com/entertainment/channels/#high-definition
It is when it's someone else who's making that profit or benefitting from it. It's like any big company that someone complains about.... Let's use satellite-TV as an example. Anyone here is free to start their own service like Dish or DirecTV. Just start building satellite(s) or leasing space from existing ones. Starting building or buying equipment for the consumer side (receivers, dishes, etc). Start building the infrastructure to transmit data back and forth (uplink centers, etc). Start working on deals with networks. Any takers ?People forget that DISH is a business to make money, and if you pay attention the more people get upset at DISH the better their profits are.
Funny how it all works.
Remember profit is not a dirty word.
That's happened a number of quarters but as I recall, profits were up. One way to look at it is to say "but if they didn't lose customers or actually increased customers, their profits would be higher yet!" and that could be true. The other way to look at it is as Scott has stated a number of times, they're getting rid of "unprofitable" customers.
When I managed a One Potato Two in MN. the old manager had a customer who came about 3 days a week for lunch. This customer would always ask that he get "a little extra" of this or that, and the manager would give it to him ,while other customers listened and watched. This would get a few of the other customers into asking for a "little extra". Now, when I took over as manager, when the original "little extra" customer asked for his usual "little extra" and I advised him there would be an extra charge, he was upset and never came back...Many thought I was wrong and lost a good customer (BTW: this was in a food court of a mall, so word spreads fast with mall employees), but I didn't lose a "good" customer, I lost a bad one, that was costing me lower profits. In the first few months of my management, sales took a dive and I was the "jerk manager", but then, slowly, they started climbing again until I had the top sales in the food court and a steady stream of mall employees as my main customers.
OK..now I'm hungry!
Ghpr13
Hall said:
If I had the capital I would have done it a long time ago! The issue is the amount of capital to start such adventure successfully would be at least 1 billion, to do things right!
Hall said:
The way I look at it is that profits are up due to dish not spending any money to put in installs! When you spend less you earn more of a profit! As customers jump ship that profit will decline!
You would probably need more then that. Just two satellites would eat up much of that now.
Another way to look at it is that they are making more profit off of each of us than they did in the past. Meaning these stands they take against evil channels who want rate increases aren't saving us money. They are just saving Dish money.
Don't get me wrong. Overall, I am a pretty satisfied Dish customer but to me higher profits with fewer customers says only one thing. We are paying too much for what we are getting.
Or they off set the loss in subs by jacking up the FEES on the remaining subs left . I seem to remember it was two years ago this month that they did that very thing and jacked the prices of the additional receiver fees up into the stratosphere : from $7.00 - $17.00. Followed by a huge price increase in 2011 that was the equivalent of two years of price hikes , so they could claim a "price freeze " till 2013. Just wait till next year around this time. The basic programming packs will probably go up around $4.00 across the board. Just look at the changes to premium pack bundling they just did this year. Now cost you $2.00 more for two premium packs. From $24.00 - $26.00. Just like DISH to put PRICE FREEZE in block letters and in small print : only on basic programming packs.
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Surprising that I disagree. More than 90% of all customers I've acquired via advertising in the past 3 years have come from the number 2 ESPN radio affiliate in the country. My customers are VERY sport centric. If not having the RSN in HD 24-7 was an issue, activations would be lower and churn would be higher. However, you may be correct when saying they're not calling me to complain, but they don't appear to be canceling either because my 3-year churn is under 1.5%. If my perception was wrong my churn would be substantially higher.
I will agree that not having a specific high visabilty channel can make a difference. When DISH lost the local FSN for a month my phone exploded and my churn escalated. So yes, you're partially correct, programming can drive some consumers. However, retrans issues aside, both DISH and DTV carry virtually all the same channels, just packaged differently. DISH has more everyday HD than DTV. DTV has the Ticket, DISH has the RedZone. But, by and large, the channels are the channels, so if programming drives consumers why are they (and I'm assuming by your post) choosing DTV over DISH?
If it's not the programming, what is it? 95% of my customers have a DVR. Simple fact is DVRs create sticky customers. Customers who don't have a DVR are churning in record numbers. Which ties back to my previous post, the DISH Player was a complete and total epic fail. However, I realized right away that a DVR, even one as bad as the DISH Player, created sticky customers. To further illustrate my point, I had $30K in chargebacks in the first 10-18 months after I started my business but prior to DVRs. In the 9 years since I installed my first DISH Player (then 501, 508, 510, 522, 625, 622, 722 ...) my churn dropped substantially and my bottom line improved exponentially.
All that said, acquiring new DISH customers is becoming substantially harder. Not because of the channels, and not because of price, but because someone who currently has whole-home DVR services and more than one HDTV is rarely going to switch to DISH. Consumers today are more technically savvy than they were even 18 months ago. If it was all about the programming then the Hopper/Joey system would be a pipe dream, DTV would't have whole home DVR, and cable would still have push button boxes.
Not disputing any of the points made, but WE all have options and based on the # of customers that Dish loses each quarter, it's obviously not causing any mass exodus from Dish...
No, and like I said I am a pretty happy Dish customer in general. My point was more about the frustration I feel when people on this forum act like Dish is doing us a favor by taking a stand and removing these evil channels. The fact that their profit went up while their subscriber numbers went down is proof that they aren't passing these savings on to us.
Not necessarily, I turn away business virtually everyday that others are eager for. We do a very good job for our customer by having focus. Our profits are higher for it and our customers better off.
What customers are Dish turning away? Maybe some that have very poor credit. That would be new customers being refused service though not existing customers leaving. Some could be customers who couldn't pay their bill so Dish terminated them. That makes sense and they have to do that. For the most part though, I would say that the customer decrease Dish had wasn't from them turning away customers.
It's simple math. If their profits are higher while they have fewer customers they are making a higher profit margin on the remaining customers. Part of this increased profit margin is from paying less to channels they no longer carry while charging the same rates to their customers. I'm sure some of it came from other areas too like increased efficiency but I don't see how I as a customer am better off because of their higher profits.
Edit: I also run a small family business (It's a public accounting firm). I agree with you that not all customers are wanted. The ones that insist on such a low price that you barely get past the break even point sometimes aren't worth your time. I don't think this situation is applicable to a company like Dish though.
They have set prices for their programing that are the same for everyone. There is a little wiggle room for discounts and free premiums but they can always say no when you ask for those. Their packages have set rates for everyone who subscribes to them and they know those rates are profitable. That's why they set them there.
It's simple math. If their profits are higher while they have fewer customers they are making a higher profit margin on the remaining customers. Part of this increased profit margin is from paying less to channels they no longer carry while charging the same rates to their customers. I'm sure some of it came from other areas too like increased efficiency but I don't see how I as a customer am better off because of their higher profits.
Edit: I also run a small family business (It's a public accounting firm). I agree with you that not all customers are wanted. The ones that insist on such a low price that you barely get past the break even point sometimes aren't worth your time. I don't think this situation is applicable to a company like Dish though.
They have set prices for their programing that are the same for everyone. There is a little wiggle room for discounts and free premiums but they can always say no when you ask for those. Their packages have set rates for everyone who subscribes to them and they know those rates are profitable. That's why they set them there.
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Yea I think it would be a good start, though.. It would at least get you up an running on an all HD platform, if you could get providers to sign on to an HD only service. I would think it would be enough to at least launch and grow.
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