IF Barry Bonds were white, would be hated as much??

[salsadancer7]

I didn't know if this was PIT subject or a sport subject....but I decided to start this thread here. I was listening to 790 The Ticket, the local sports talk show down here in Miami that is co-hosted by Dan LeBetard...a regular on ESPN and he had brought this up on today's show that really caught my attention. They were talking about Roger Clemens and the fact that he was basically is calling his own shots with his new contract with the Yankees....not playing with the team until early June...does NOT have to travel with the team unless he has a start pending and a pro-rated contract worth 28 million. He had also mentioned how much Roger is ALSO not very well liked and is an arrogant jerk and all. But also mentioned was the fact that there are now(or always been) rumblings that how this freak of nature, Clemens, can STILL be dominant without some kind of pharmaceutical enhancement.

Now in came the subject of Bonds, and that he well could be, the greatest player in the last 50 years and more than likely, the best player of our generation...but he is also hated because of how much of an a$$h*** he is. So I was wondering, of ALL the athletes playing in any sport right now...not retired...right now, how many REAL jerks are actually...for lack of a better term...white guys? I don't think it racist, maybe we do it and not realize it..or maybe internally, we are racist to a certain extent and we don know it ....but I made up a list of guys I really hated in sports....topped of course BY Bonds...and I could barely come up with any white guys. Now being an a$$h*** goes WAY beyond color, race or creed.....but I had to pose the question and wanted to see everyones take.....

 

[JrC]

Roger Clemens sounds alot like Denny McClain.

I didn't know I hated Barry Bonds. He is nothing more than a sports figure. I don't know him or about him to form an opinion about him.

 

[BlackHitachi]

I didn't know if this was PIT subject or a sport subject....but I decided to start this thread here. I was listening to 790 The Ticket, the local sports talk show down here in Miami that is co-hosted by Dan LeBetard...a regular on ESPN and he had brought this up on today's show that really caught my attention. They were talking about Roger Clemens and the fact that he was basically is calling his own shots with his new contract with the Yankees....not playing with the team until early June...does NOT have to travel with the team unless he has a start pending and a pro-rated contract worth 28 million. He had also mentioned how much Roger is ALSO not very well liked and is an arrogant jerk and all. But also mentioned was the fact that there are now(or always been) rumblings that how this freak of nature, Clemens, can STILL be dominant without some kind of pharmaceutical enhancement.

Now in came the subject of Bonds, and that he well could be, the greatest player in the last 50 years and more than likely, the best player of our generation...but he is also hated because of how much of an a$$h*** he is. So I was wondering, of ALL the athletes playing in any sport right now...not retired...right now, how many REAL jerks are actually...for lack of a better term...white guys? I don't think it racist, maybe we do it and not realize it..or maybe internally, we are racist to a certain extent and we don know it ....but I made up a list of guys I really hated in sports....topped of course BY Bonds...and I could barely come up with any white guys. Now being an a$$h*** goes WAY beyond color, race or creed.....but I had to pose the question and wanted to see everyones take.....

Well just like when your favorite college team got into trouble they were automatically called THUGS! Basketball also but yet in other sports like oh Hockey and Lacrosse they are the nicest guys in the world.

 

[Paradox-SJ]

I didnt know we hated him.....

Think about these are multi-millionars with more money than they can spend....Why in the world would I care....they dont even know I exist and I am suppoded to take the time to 'hate' one of them? Oh please.....

I dislike ball players as much as I dislike certain actors...and believe me its nothing personal as I dont really know them.

White black purple its all the same...all that maters is the green....

 

[Sean Mota]

I think Hate is an extreme word. Usually the "Hate" feeling or emotioin is associated with someone you "know" or is closer to you than a sport figure like Bonds. I do not "hate" Bonds but I do not believe that he has hit all his home runs without drugs enhancements. Just because I would not recognize him as a sport athlete who has obtained the Baseball most memorable records (or will obtain), does not make me hate him.

I think the sports analysts many times go to the extreme. It is not hate but dissapointment that as talented a player as Bonds was in his prime, he and others (like Mcguire and Sosa, Palmiero) had the guts to use steroids and then deny it. By denying they just try to insult us, fans. This is why I think I personally do not recognize his numbers and his accomplishments.

If he had come out and said that he used steroids and it was a mistake, I would have a better opinion.

 

[Peter Parker]

Bonds has never curried favor with fans, teammates or the press. Add to that the steriod allegations which amounts to a charge of cheating and you get a countdown toa record that makes everyone wince.

I can't speak for everyone but I spent my boyhood rooting for first Willie Mays and then Hank Aaron to break Babe Ruth's home run record and was elated when Aaron did it. I was also in the bleachers at Fenway Park the day he played his first game in the Al (he went to Milwaukee which was then in the AL) and took part in the four standing Os for the man who almost played for the Boston Braves (he was a rookie for the Braves first season in Milwaukee). If race was the amin factor why did so many fans get behind those two?

I can't say that his race is not part of things for some but I think it is more an issue of how he is getting there. BTW if Sen. Mitchell e tal have anything on this guy it is really going to look back if they come out with it this close to his getting the record or after he breaks it. But if the allegations are true (and they seem to be) baseball is going to have to live with the fact that Bonds' record will alway have a question mark (if not an asterisk) after it.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Roger Clemens sounds alot like Denny McClain.

I didn't know I hated Barry Bonds. He is nothing more than a sports figure. I don't know him or about him to form an opinion about him.

I'm from Detroit, and believe me, Clemens is nothing like Denny McClain. Jerks like McClain are truly rare. Nobody was holding a gun to the Yankee's head to sign him to that contract. To compare Clemens to McClain is truly an insult to Clemens. Don't believe me? Then ask the meat packing employees whose pensions were stolen by Denny.

 

[Peter Parker]

I am not sure I even understand the Clemens-McLain comparison. How are they supposed to be similar/

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Bonds is a great hitter. Steroids (allegidly) don't help you put the bat on the ball, they just make them go farther. I don't know if he used them or not, but I suspect so. So in my mind his HR totals are suspect. Despite the color of his skin, an a$$hole is an a$$hole, and Mr. Bonds is most certainly that in my mind. And that has nothing to do with whether he used steroids or not. (Or maybe it's 'roid rage?)

 

[Ramy]

I don't hate Bonds, but I don't like him either because of the way he has been with the media over his career. Also he hits alot of HR's against the Reds, LOL.

 

[JrC]

As far as the Clemens/McClain reference. I was thinking more about the the time when he was still playing for Detriot. McClain wasn't considered part of the team by the rest of the team. He was able to fly to away games in his own plane. Get there last minute pitch and leave.

McClain did manage to destroy his and his family's lives, and most saidly the lives of many others.

 

[Bogy]

I don't see so much hate toward Bonds, as apathy. For myself, he is a non-event. OTOH, for me personally, Big Mac's Wheatie box will always be in the collection I have on display. Not just because of a fantastic year I'll always remember, but because of the man he is. There is no proof that he took any substance that was illegal. He signed a contract with the Cardinals because that is the team he wanted to play for, when he could have made much more with other teams. When injuries were causing him to miss at bats, he retired to free up that money on the payroll for other players, when he could have just sat on the bench and collected his paycheck. He took a substantial amount of that paycheck and donated it to programs which helped abused children. One of the organizations which benefited was where my wife worked when we lived in St. Louis. McGwire pissed off sportswriters when he was playing because he didn't give them every interview they wanted, and he still is pissing them off because he won't give them the interview they want, one where he bares his soul and tells them every nasty thing he did. And if he did, it still wouldn't be enough, because there would be people who still would want to believe there was more he wasn't telling. So, like our current president, he just doesn't talk about it at all.

 

[boston area dtv]

It all comes down to the roids.

If Bonds were just a jerk and he was posting those numbers I know my friends and I would sit and think that guy is unstoppable.

Toss in the roids and it taints the picture.

Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa are in the same boat. I thought they were great when they played but I cant respect them or acknowledge their baseball accomplishments.

Roger Clemens..I cant give you an unbiased answer with him. I think this whole play half a season for 30 million sucks. Being from Boston I have other animosity directed towards him.

Im sure there are enough people out there that hated Bird, Ainge and McHale. Ainge was known as a whiner and Im sure the rest of the nation hated him.

I think white players take heat too when justified. Bosworth, Mandarich, and Ryan Leaf all took abuse.

Oh and being from Boston we hate everyone.

 

[sidekick]

I remember that well. McClain screwed himself over big time. He deserves every thing he's gotten.

As far as the Clemens/McClain reference. I was thinking more about the the time when he was still playing for Detriot. McClain wasn't considered part of the team by the rest of the team. He was able to fly to away games in his own plane. Get there last minute pitch and leave.

McClain did manage to destroy his and his family's lives, and most saidly the lives of many others.

 

[cybok0]

I hate Barry Bonds, dislike for non-pit members , it's not because he's black, not because of "roids", because he's a jerk.

It started in Pittsburgh, he was a jerk to the fans, media, coaches and his fellow players.

He called the city of Pittsburgh racist because people liked Andy Van Slyke instead of himself, I hate to tell him that Pittsburgh's favorite Pirates are Roberto Clemente and Willie Stargell, both black.

I hate it when people throw in the race card for there own purpose, Bonds probably started the whole story some how.

As for the "roids", yeah he took them, look how big his head got, nobody's head gets that big over the years.

Then...



Now...



But he was never tested positive, so they can't hold that against him no matter how much they believe he did.

Plus for the Roger Clemens, it's ridiculous what he gets because he is who he is, but I don't blame him, I'd do the same thing if I could, I blame baseball owners.

In addition Clemens probably took roids, he's just a freak of nature.

 

[bidger`]

He called the city of Pittsburgh racist because people liked Andy Van Slyke instead of himself, I hate to tell him that Pittsburgh's favorite Pirates are Roberto Clemente and Willie Stargell, both black.

Well, Clemente was from South America, but the point is they're both non-white and quite beloved in Pirate lore. It shows how self-centered Bonds is that he had no clue of the teams history. The race card has no validity in Bond's situation.

 

[thowe21]

I believe Bonds was truely affected by the enviornment of his youth with his father and the way most black athletes had to go through during those times. This explains the way he acts today towards the media and the way he "plays the race card" when subjects come up about Maris, Ruth and McGwire. But I do not condone the way he acts though, I don't really believe his father is bitter now like Bonds is making his childhood out to be. I just think the guys is a complete ass.

 

[brainiac]

I don't see so much hate toward Bonds, as apathy. For myself, he is a non-event. OTOH, for me personally, Big Mac's Wheatie box will always be in the collection I have on display. Not just because of a fantastic year I'll always remember, but because of the man he is. There is no proof that he took any substance that was illegal. He signed a contract with the Cardinals because that is the team he wanted to play for, when he could have made much more with other teams. When injuries were causing him to miss at bats, he retired to free up that money on the payroll for other players, when he could have just sat on the bench and collected his paycheck. He took a substantial amount of that paycheck and donated it to programs which helped abused children. One of the organizations which benefited was where my wife worked when we lived in St. Louis. McGwire pissed off sportswriters when he was playing because he didn't give them every interview they wanted, and he still is pissing them off because he won't give them the interview they want, one where he bares his soul and tells them every nasty thing he did. And if he did, it still wouldn't be enough, because there would be people who still would want to believe there was more he wasn't telling. So, like our current president, he just doesn't talk about it at all.

This is exactly why most black people view the treatment of Bonds as racist. If anyone followed McGwire's career from when he broke in in '87 until his heyday in St. Louis, you had to have noticed the astounding physical transformation and known that he was on something. Yet, nobody said a damned thing. Even when he was caught red-handed with the steroid precursor, androstenedione, the majority white media just laughed it off. People also had to have noticed how quickly and vehemently the media tried to discredit Jose Canseco when he came out with his allegations. And by several accounts, and confirmed by the post above, McGwire was as big an a$$hole with the media as Bonds was until Sammy Sosa convinced him to lighten up and enjoy life. Yet, the difference between how McGwire was treated and how Bonds is treated now is astounding, yet not surprising. So, in conclusion, all those talk show hosts and columnists who claim to not understand why most blacks view Bonds' treatment as racist; they're either being disingenuous or stupid.

 

[boston area dtv]

by the way cut the if he took roids or alledgedly took roids. He took them. Admitted to a grand jury. Claimed he thought they were flaxseed oil. He took the clear and the cream. So from now on just know that he admitted to taking roids.

 

[brainiac]

As for the "roids", yeah he took them, look how big his head got, nobody's head gets that big over the years.

Take a look at Marlon Brando's picture from "On The Waterfront", then compare it to him in "Apocalypse Now." Was he on 'roids also? Hell, look at Roger Clemens' head now compared to when he broke in! What happened there? All I'm saying is that too many people hear a bunch of anecdotes then claim it to be scientific fact. Like the hearsay about Bonds' shoe size. Ask yourself, has anyone actually proven that to be true?

Then...



Now...



But he was never tested positive, so they can't hold that against him no matter how much they believe he did.

Plus for the Roger Clemens, it's ridiculous what he gets because he is who he is, but I don't blame him, I'd do the same thing if I could, I blame baseball owners.

In addition Clemens probably took roids, he's just a freak of nature.

Put up Clemens' and McGwire's rookie cards with their current and end-of-career cards, respectively - then tell me what the difference is.