FS: VIP Dish 211k

[Dee_Ann]

I'm not at home right now so I can't fully reply to your message but I have a quick question for the experts.
I found a switch in the junk box that says microroyal sw21x.

Can I use that with this tuner? I read it can work on some DN tuners but I can't find any thing in the menus for it and when I did a switch test it doesn't see it. But it also doesnt see the new sw21 switch either. I connected up the switch and some lnb's in the house, I don't have a dish set up yet. I was just messing with things to see what's what.

thanks.

 

[Mr Tony]

I'm not at home right now so I can't fully reply to your message but I have a quick question for the experts.
I found a switch in the junk box that says microroyal sw21x.

Can I use that with this tuner? I read it can work on some DN tuners but I can't find any thing in the menus for it and when I did a switch test it doesn't see it. But it also doesnt see the new sw21 switch either. I connected up the switch and some lnb's in the house, I don't have a dish set up yet. I was just messing with things to see what's what.

thanks.

yeah that would work. You hook 2 dishes to the SW21x (the one you have)
Then run the output of that into sat 1 on the SW21 I sent. The 3rd sat goes into sat 2 on that switch

Dish receiver check switch option wont show anything unless it finds a satellite. Sat install menu is
menu
6
1
1
thats where it shows the signal meter.

old thread on setup with a SW21x/SW21
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-technical-discussions/143621-need-help-3-sat-legacy-setup.html

just substitute 61.5 for 129 in your case.

 

[Dee_Ann]

yeah that would work. You hook 2 dishes to the SW21x (the one you have)
Then run the output of that into sat 1 on the SW21 I sent. The 3rd sat goes into sat 2 on that switch

Dish receiver check switch option wont show anything unless it finds a satellite. Sat install menu is
menu
6
1
1
thats where it shows the signal meter.

old thread on setup with a SW21x/SW21
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-technical-discussions/143621-need-help-3-sat-legacy-setup.html

just substitute 61.5 for 129 in your case.

Oh good deal. I hope this will work then, I mean, I don't know if the switch is good or bad yet, it's pretty shabby looking, it appears that it was used outdoors without any sort of weather proofing.
As for the set up, I saw that the menu lets you set up one of three dish types, a Dish 500, a Dish 300 or a Superdish. I can't see any other dish types or any options to set what type of switch or switches you have so I'm sort of sitting here going "Huh?"

I'm trying to grasp this new stuff. It's quite different than what I'm used to.

 

[Mr Tony]

Oh good deal. I hope this will work then, I mean, I don't know if the switch is good or bad yet, it's pretty shabby looking, it appears that it was used outdoors without any sort of weather proofing.

I'll send the other one as a backup
(I have no use for it)

As for the set up, I saw that the menu lets you set up one of three dish types, a Dish 500, a Dish 300 or a Superdish. I can't see any other dish types or any options to set what type of switch or switches you have so I'm sort of sitting here going "Huh?"

Dish 300 & 500 are just in there to show what settings the dish needs to be at for your zip (if you plug it in there). They are there for looks. Superdish was the old Superdish from years ago that saw either 110/119/121 or 105/110/119. Once you have the dishes aimed (I assume you'll use your meter) and the switch hooked up you run a check switch in the receiver. IN that point dish screen (menu 6-1-1) you'll see a option on the side that says "switch check". You select that then test. It will run 38 steps. If it can't find a satellite it takes FOREVER....when I ran that to clear out what I had in there it took like 10 minutes. Normally its about 3. If your sats are set up properly (at 110, 119, 129) the switch should show all 3 sats in the list and at the top of the screen it says
Switch: SW21 3 sat

 

[Dee_Ann]

I'll send the other one as a backup
(I have no use for it)

Thank you kind sir..

Dish 300 & 500 are just in there to show what settings the dish needs to be at for your zip (if you plug it in there). They are there for looks. Superdish was the old Superdish from years ago that saw either 110/119/121 or 105/110/119. Once you have the dishes aimed (I assume you'll use your meter) and the switch hooked up you run a check switch in the receiver. IN that point dish screen (menu 6-1-1) you'll see a option on the side that says "switch check". You select that then test. It will run 38 steps. If it can't find a satellite it takes FOREVER....when I ran that to clear out what I had in there it took like 10 minutes. Normally its about 3. If your sats are set up properly (at 110, 119, 129) the switch should show all 3 sats in the list and at the top of the screen it says
Switch: SW21 3 sat

I think I understand now. I was sort of hoping to do the setup just sitting on my desk without hooking it all up but I guess you can't set it up until everything is 100% installed and operational.

Now let me ask another dumb question.. (here she goes again!)

The DN stuff is circular and not linear. I am ~ASSUMING~ that in the case where I am using three individual stand alone dishes, that I do not have to worry about skew of either the dish or the LNB, correct?
In this case I just have to aim it at the satellite and it doesn't care about skew?

It boggles my mind on how they can make a radio signal curve like a cork screw. My mind can not grasp this concept no matter how hard I try. All I can do is accept that it does exist.

I guess today I'm going to try to get some of the dishes converted and aimed. I think I'm going to have to resort to a trick you guys take for granted, duct tape..
At least now they make duct tape in not only different colors but patterns and designs too.

My biggest problem is going to be running another wire underground. There's a buried tube where the other two wires are already but now I have to get another wire through it and I'm going to have to cut the curves off the tops that keep the rain out. This is not going to be easy.. A few years ago I replaced the old wire that was in it with two new wires for my FTA and that was pretty hard work. Since then I've looked at ways to do it right so I'm off to Lowe's to buy a "fish tape", string and some wire lubricant and hopefully I can manage without having a total meltdown..

 

[Mr Tony]

Now let me ask another dumb question.. (here she goes again!)

no such thing as a dumb question

The DN stuff is circular and not linear. I am ~ASSUMING~ that in the case where I am using three individual stand alone dishes, that I do not have to worry about skew of either the dish or the LNB, correct?
In this case I just have to aim it at the satellite and it doesn't care about skew?

correct. Circular polarity does not require skew. Skew is only needed when aiming at multiple sats on one dish (to compensate for different elevations)

I guess today I'm going to try to get some of the dishes converted and aimed. I think I'm going to have to resort to a trick you guys take for granted, duct tape..
At least now they make duct tape in not only different colors but patterns and designs too.

duct tape, hose clamps (that you can get at hardware store) and wood.....the 3 things a Iceberg satellite dish needs

My biggest problem is going to be running another wire underground. There's a buried tube where the other two wires are already but now I have to get another wire through it and I'm going to have to cut the curves off the tops that keep the rain out. This is not going to be easy.. A few years ago I replaced the old wire that was in it with two new wires for my FTA and that was pretty hard work. Since then I've looked at ways to do it right so I'm off to Lowe's to buy a "fish tape", string and some wire lubricant and hopefully I can manage without having a total meltdown..

you dont have any extra cables run through there just in case say one got damaged?

 

[Dee_Ann]

no such thing as a dumb question

Thank goodness because I'm full of em.. Or something.. :

correct. Circular polarity does not require skew. Skew is only needed when aiming at multiple sats on one dish (to compensate for different elevations)

Good deal! That made my job sooooo much easier!

duct tape, hose clamps (that you can get at hardware store) and wood.....the 3 things a Iceberg satellite dish needs

I tore my house apart looking for junk to kludge these things together! I mean it looks like a Tasmanian Devil AND a tornado tore through here!
It's going to take me a day to clean it all up now.

you dont have any extra cables run through there just in case say one got damaged?

Um, ooops...


I guess I didn't think it all the way through when I put those new wires in that time.
I think maybe I'll try to run two more this time instead of just one. Just in case..




So anyway..


I managed to get three dishes up and going on 110, 119 and 129! That birddog meter that I had so little luck with on linear stuff came through like a boss for this!
So I have my 1.2m aimed at 129 because there's a tree that's right smack in line. I'm going to try to poison it so it never wakes up come spring time. BAD TREE!! BAD!!
Even if it survives I should be ok because with this big dish, OMG, the signal was so strong that my Birddog almost caught on fire! :
It pegged it and there was a lot of room for sloppy aiming though I was meticulous about it and very carefully fine tuned it for the very best signal I could get.
I have little doubt that rain fade will rarely be a problem when watching HD!
I put a 1m dish for 110 and a .96m dish for 119. They also about set the meter on fire they were so strong! :


Right now I'm too tired to mess with it, I'm going to rest a bit but later I'll take the tuner out back and see how it likes what I've done.. I also don't have the wires run yet so that's still left to do.




LNB for 129w






LNB for 110w






LNB for 119w






Left to right: 1.2m@129w, .96m@119w, 1m@110w






Left to right: 1m@110w, .96m@119w, 1.2m@129w


I guess later today I'll go to Lowe's and buy that fish tape and other stuff to run the new wires and tomorrow I can get that a try.
I'm done for this day with the exception of trying the tuner to see what it thinks about all this..
I'm pretty bummed out because the disk I thought I was going to use for the DVR is bad. So now I have to spend like $130 for a new one.
I sure hate that prices are so high on disks after all that flooding. I bought one last year before the floods, it was a 2tb disk for like $89.
Now the SLOW disks are $130 !! That really annoys me!
But I need to go ahead and order one so that I'll have it when I call to sign up and activate everything all at the same time. It looks like I'm ahead of schedule on getting this stuff together, I thought it would be a lot harder and take me a lot longer and cost a lot more to get it all set up. Rather than wait until March like I had originally planned I think I'm going to go ahead and call to activate after the 15th, probably Monday the 20th would be a good target date.

I'm rather pleased with myself that I was able to convert three large dishes from FTA to Dish. It took some duct tape and assorted junk but I made it work! 2:

 

[Mr Tony]

One thing of note...Even though you may blow the meter out you may have to do some fine tuining. When I aimed my dish I used a FTA reciever which showed 99 quality but after hooking it up to the receiver it still needed some tweaking

Here is what I would do (since you dont have snow on the ground and 10 degrees out)

Take the receiver and the little TV you have out to the "farm"
Hook up a cable to the 119 dish and the reciever
plug in the reciever...as soon as the "checking signal" thingy pops up on the screen press menu 6-1-1 to get into the install screen
arrow over to where it says satellite and transponder. Change to 119 satellite transponder 20 or 21. Check signal (should be in the 70's)
unhook cable and hook to the 110 dish....change to transponder 10 or 11 and verify signal
unhook cable and hook to the 129 dish...check transponders 17-32 (any of those will work...21 will read really high. The rest are HD S2 Turbo so they will read lower (50's to low 60's minimum).....tweak dish is you want to

When everything is tweaked you could temporarily lay a cable to make sure everything works. You could hook up 110 & 119 for right now with the SW21 I sent. I know you mentioned a SW21x but you didnt know if it worked. I guess I'd hook it up with the SW21x first to see if that switch works. Hook up 110 & 119 to that switch and hook to reciever. Arrow to "switch check" and select "test". It will go through the switch matrix (38 steps). When done you should see 110 & 119 on the screen. If it does you have 2 options. You could then hook up the SW21 and 129 to the bunch to get all sats. If you do that I posted previously how to hook that up. You will then retest the check switch to get all 3 sats. If all 3 sats show on the screen select "Done" and you'll be back in the install screen. Wait 20 seconds or so for the receiver to find the satellite then hit "LIVE TV" on the remote. Thats the same as hitting cancel like 8 times
You'll be in the "searching for signal" and the 5 green bars. It will go through that then download the guide. You should have a few channels that are in the clear (or open key) like 101, 212 (Nasa), the knockoff shopping channels and maybe the freeview stuff (dont know)

Then when you get the new cable run and that SW31 comes (it was mailed today) you can just swap it out. I would rerun the check switch then just to make sure everything is right.

 

[Dee_Ann]

One thing of note...Even though you may blow the meter out you may have to do some fine tuining. When I aimed my dish I used a FTA reciever which showed 99 quality but after hooking it up to the receiver it still needed some tweaking

Here is what I would do (since you dont have snow on the ground and 10 degrees out)

Take the receiver and the little TV you have out to the "farm"
Hook up a cable to the 119 dish and the reciever
plug in the reciever...as soon as the "checking signal" thingy pops up on the screen press menu 6-1-1 to get into the install screen
arrow over to where it says satellite and transponder. Change to 119 satellite transponder 20 or 21. Check signal (should be in the 70's)
unhook cable and hook to the 110 dish....change to transponder 10 or 11 and verify signal
unhook cable and hook to the 129 dish...check transponders 17-32 (any of those will work...21 will read really high. The rest are HD S2 Turbo so they will read lower (50's to low 60's minimum).....tweak dish is you want to

When everything is tweaked you could temporarily lay a cable to make sure everything works. You could hook up 110 & 119 for right now with the SW21 I sent. I know you mentioned a SW21x but you didnt know if it worked. I guess I'd hook it up with the SW21x first to see if that switch works. Hook up 110 & 119 to that switch and hook to reciever. Arrow to "switch check" and select "test". It will go through the switch matrix (38 steps). When done you should see 110 & 119 on the screen. If it does you have 2 options. You could then hook up the SW21 and 129 to the bunch to get all sats. If you do that I posted previously how to hook that up. You will then retest the check switch to get all 3 sats. If all 3 sats show on the screen select "Done" and you'll be back in the install screen. Wait 20 seconds or so for the receiver to find the satellite then hit "LIVE TV" on the remote. Thats the same as hitting cancel like 8 times
You'll be in the "searching for signal" and the 5 green bars. It will go through that then download the guide. You should have a few channels that are in the clear (or open key) like 101, 212 (Nasa), the knockoff shopping channels and maybe the freeview stuff (dont know)

Then when you get the new cable run and that SW31 comes (it was mailed today) you can just swap it out. I would rerun the check switch then just to make sure everything is right.

Awesome, thank you! I printed this out and I'm going to take it out there with me when I get to that point.

It's late, getting dark soon and rain is imminent.. :cry:
It's supposed to rain tonight and tomorrow, again. So I may be stuck in the mud for a few days..
I did buy some non-DEET mosquito spray which came in super handy today when I was putting the dishes up. At least I can now cope with them.
The Skin So Soft works but it's oily and it will ruin your clothes so you have to wear old fonky work clothes that don't matter if you use SSS..

So anyway, I went to Lowe's and I bought a fish tape, wire pull lubricant and a roll of string.



One thing I'm going to do, when I pull the new wires through the tubes I'm going to leave another string inside the tube so that if I have to pull more wires through it again in the future, the string is already there and I won't have to do the fish tape again. I watched some youtube videos on how to use fish tapes.

I suppose it will be the weekend before I can get out in the yard again, IF it doesn't totally go underwater again. That always takes a long time to dry up because the ground is saturated now.
So much for the drought..

Oh, and I had to find a new disk since the one I was going to use turned out to be dead. I found on Newegg they have a Seagate 2tb disk, 5900 rpms for $109. It's regular $129 but they have a promo code (EMCNHNC42) you can enter to get an instant $20 off and it's also free three day shipping. That's about the best deal you can find these days I suppose.

So far it looks like it's all coming together nicely, faster and smoother than I expected and a little less than I expected to spend. The disk was a bit of a setback but I saved BIG by recycling my FTA dishes so it pretty much balances out.
Now I also need to go fix them as I really upset the apple cart with pretty much all my ku dishes. I need to put one back up for 125 and one for 97. I managed to do all this without even having to plant a new pole. I was thinking I would have to do that but then I realized that I had two dishes that were aimed at the (now) useless satellites 89 and 101. I pulled them down and moved stuff around so everything got all shook up today.. At least I've learned to do it pretty fast.
Find the DN satellites was scary fast! Extremely easy and fast. I guess I've done it so many times that it's almost become simple.. The worst part is lugging those heavy beasts back and forth.

Thank you again!

 

[Mr Tony]

One thing I'm going to do, when I pull the new wires through the tubes I'm going to leave another string inside the tube so that if I have to pull more wires through it again in the future, the string is already there and I won't have to do the fish tape again.

best advice there

Find the DN satellites was scary fast! Extremely easy and fast. I guess I've done it so many times that it's almost become simple..

now the only thing I hope (and it may sound dumb) is that you dont have 2 dishes at same satellite since DBS uses the same frequencies across the arc. If the elevation was different on all 3 dishes then you should be ok

 

[Dee_Ann]

best advice there




now the only thing I hope (and it may sound dumb) is that you dont have 2 dishes at same satellite since DBS uses the same frequencies across the arc. If the elevation was different on all 3 dishes then you should be ok

Nope. I downloaded a file from the Birddog site for the three satellites. I looked up the elevation of all three and wrote it down. I went to each dish, set the elevation then turned the dish side to side until the meter lit up for that satellite.
I would tweak it, tighten it up and go to the next. Each elevation was different and I can clearly see that each dish is aimed at a different point of the compass. I used dishpointer.com to get a view of the yard, there is a very detailed, hi-res photo of my yard and my dishes are very clearly visible in great detail. With all the hurricanes our area gets new photos often. So I am able to get a visual on where the dish should be pointing. Like 97w line up with the peak of my neighbor's porch roof. I find landmarks to use as general visual guides. The satellite pics they have are about 2 years old so my C-band dishes weren't up at that time but that's no big deal. I can move the little pin around my yard and put it pretty darn close to where the dishes really are now as some have moved, some are gone, some are new..











But yes, the birddog identified each satellite by it's unique name so I am 100% certain I have them all aimed at the proper place..

 

[Mr Tony]

ok just wanted to make sure

 

[rglore]

So anyway, I went to Lowe's and I bought a fish tape, wire pull lubricant and a roll of string.

Pulling additional wires into a conduit is nearly impossible unless it's a short run. What happens is the fish tape will twist around the cables and when you pull the new cable in it grabs the existing cables (especially in the bends) and bunches them up and damages them and halts the effort. The preferred way is to remove the ends and pull out the existing cables as a group with one of them joined securely to a pull wire. Then attach all the existing and new cables to the pull wire (just wrap electrical tape around all of them making sure to wrap the ends) and you will have no trouble pulling the bunch back in especially if you use the lube. It helps a lot if someone is pushing the cables into the conduit as you pull them through it.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Pulling additional wires into a conduit is nearly impossible unless it's a short run. What happens is the fish tape will twist around the cables and when you pull the new cable in it grabs the existing cables (especially in the bends) and bunches them up and damages them and halts the effort. The preferred way is to remove the ends and pull out the existing cables as a group with one of them joined securely to a pull wire. Then attach all the existing and new cables to the pull wire (just wrap electrical tape around all of them making sure to wrap the ends) and you will have no trouble pulling the bunch back in especially if you use the lube. It helps a lot if someone is pushing the cables into the conduit as you pull them through it.

That sounds like a good plan but it would be pretty hard for me to go through all that. The tube underground it runs through is 1 1/2" pvc plastic so I'm hoping that it won't be too impossible.
As it is now, one wire comes out of the tube and goes into the box where the discque switch is. But the other existing wire comes out of the tube then is reburied and runs over to the big C-band dish.
They are twin siamese wires, it's a RG6Q that has paired to it a category 5 ethernet wire. The ethernet wires are being used as control and power for the two C-band dish motors. I would have to disconnect those and dig up that second wire. Plus cut the connectors off and put new ones on them again. Now that would be a major, major pain in the backside. I do understand what you're saying though and I can see how it could be a huge problem if it goes wrong. But I'm going to go ahead and try running it as is for now and see how it goes.
If it doesn't go right I can always pull the new wires out and try again or if all else fails, pull ALL the wires out. Pulling everything out is going to be my last option because it would be pretty disruptive and a lot more work.

But thank you for mentioning this to me as I had not considered this potential problem. I will more attentive to the process now and if it gets tangled and hangs up at least now I'll know what it might be and what the solution is.

Thank you...

 

[Dee_Ann]

I'll send the other one as a backup
(I have no use for it)

Got it! Thank you so much!




Over the weekend I took down and changed around ALL of my ku dishes, prepping for my pizza addition never week. Gawd I feel so traitorous!
Now I've got everything a mess out there, plus to make matters worse, it rains every other day and it's bloody cold in the morning and bloody hot in the afternoons. And the mosquitoes are out of control.
It's so hard to make any progress with things like that going on. I have one of those ground fault plugs that I run an extension cord from when I was testing my DN tuner and my dish conversions. That was pretty scary because there was standing water out there, I stayed out of it and put the cord where it wasn't in the water but still.. I still need to buy some rain boots though. I'm tired of muddy, WET sneakers.
The forecast has it raining every other day for the next week and the ground is saturated so there's no chance it's going to dry up back there any time soon.


And I still need to run another wire for my DN system. I'm lucky in that when I did repairs to the old tubes and ran new wires about a year or two ago, I had the forethought to NOT glue on the curved things on the tops of the tubes (to keep rain out) so that I can slide them off and push the wires straight through.





This one comes apart near the ground, the one next to the house which is also buried right smack in the middle of my rose bushes, the curved thing on top comes off.
I figured that it would be impossible to push future wires through the curves so I left them where I can remove them.


However, I'm seriously thinking about digging the old tubes up and putting all new 2" tubes with gentle, roundy curve elbows instead of the sharp 90 degree elbows this one has.
I would have lots of room for all the wires I could ever need and it would be easier to pull them through a larger tube with round elbows. And I could also leave three or four strings in it for future use.




I put the 3x1 switch on the dishes and did a switch test and it found the three dishes. I let it download a program guide and I was watching some sort of info channel I guess, it was showing how to use Dish equipment. I had no sound so I'm not sure. I saw it was saying there was a free preview weekend, Lifetime was one. I tuned to it and I saw it playing in HD, some stupid "True Ghost Stories" or something stupid like that.


Two or three other channels showed as free previews and I tuned them in, also in HD. I found a channel on 129 that says congratulations, you're pointed at the satellite at 129. Duh..
There were a handful of assorted channels coming in but with no sound and on a 7" LCD in bright sunlight, it wasn't exactly making me want to sit out there and watch.
Besides, there was a strong, harsh north wind blowing and all I have is a light windbreaker. It's fine for going back and forth from the car to the store but to sit outside for hours, not so good.
Once I confirmed that it's working I shut it all down and called it a day.


























With the never ending rain however, I am beginning to have serious doubts about getting activated next week. That was my goal but I still have to run the wire and that is gonna be a royal pain..
But, at least I've made SOME progress.. I just wish I could have one week of cool, dry weather.. Dream on.....

 

[HIFI]

Hang in there Dee. you'll get it together and all will be good.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Hang in there Dee. you'll get it together and all will be good.

Thanks, I'm still hoping to get it going next week, if I can just get either a break in the rain or some new rain boots..

Oh yeah! I found on ebay and sniped, three additional remotes for this thing. I have a 1x4 HDMI splitter so that I can put TV's in all the rooms of the house off of the single tuner, I just need to get more TV's and more of those remote pyramids. I have two now, I need two more and I'll be in good shape. But anyway, I got three remotes for $10 + $8 s&h. Not a bad deal.. Two of them are 20.0 and one is a 21.0 I read that it can be switched to use IR only. I wish this tuner has RF but oh well.
So with this I can leave a remote in each room instead of carrying one around the house all the time.

So I guess I have all the main things I need inside the house, now I just need to run the main wire from the dishes and I'm good to go!

 

[navychop]

"prepping for my pizza addition never week."

I hope that typo isn't a premonition!


"prepping for my pizza addition never week. Gawd I feel so traitorous!"

Any relatives named Luke?

 

[Dee_Ann]

"prepping for my pizza addition never week."

I hope that typo isn't a premonition!


"prepping for my pizza addition never week. Gawd I feel so traitorous!"

Any relatives named Luke?

OOPS....... NEXT week. Not never...

No, no relatives named Luke but I used to date a guy named Luke many, many moons ago...

 

[Mr Tony]

I put the 3x1 switch on the dishes and did a switch test and it found the three dishes.

good to know that the switch made it safely

I found a channel on 129 that says congratulations, you're pointed at the satellite at 129.

the test card on there is back when there were sats being used at 105,110,119,121,129 and 148. It was easy for Dish customer service reps to check if you could see a satellite. I forget what channel it is now but 129 use to be 9901 so they had you type in 9901. If it didnt show up then 129 wasnt working. There is a channel that says "you have a dish 500" which means you can see 110

On the 2nd pic I was worried you didnt have all the channels but I see "my channels" listed which would be the freebies. If you hit the "guide" button it will cycle through all, my channels, HD and favorites which you can set up (so you coudl remove those shopping/ppv channels)