Facts about HD Lite on E*

[waltinvt]

It is funny that HD LiteApologists get frustrated and very touchy about an HD Lite Thread. They are now telling us to not even post a HD Lite thread. Isn't this even ridiculous? These are the same that accepted SD Lite and now are ok with HD Lite. What a freaking bunch? If you do not like this thread, do not respond to it but at least let others that do care do.

The HD Lite problem has grown even at higher level than a year ago. Now HDnet and HDnet movies have been degraded to same fate and this is right ?????? Give me a f*** break. Is this right? Let it be known that Dish Network is even a bigger offender today than DirecTv of HD Lite. Dish Network should say "better HD Lite TV for all"

It's not just HD Lite Sean - it's everywhere and part of the egocentric, "me-first" mindset that today's society has "devolved" to.

They're happy with mediocrity but they don't want to be reminded of it by those that are not. There is little tolerance for opposing viewpoints today.

While I don't agree, I can respect someone that says: "I'd rather have more channels of HD Lite than less channels of full HD" and I'm not going to rant because they voice their opinion about it. Neither do I want the little pukes telling me I shouldn't voice mine.

 

[gdarwin]

While I don't agree, I can respect someone that says: "I'd rather have more channels of HD Lite than less channels of full HD" and I'm not going to rant because they voice their opinion about it. Neither do I want the little pukes telling me I shouldn't voice mine.

I'm with Walt....:clap

(Where are the new smilies I sent to the ops?)

 

[Juan]

Its just some of us face reality.. True HD is a myth and will never exist in the real world.. More HD channels= more subs/less bandwidth or Less HD channels= less subs/morebandwidth.. If you ran a business which path would you take???

 

[Smith P.]

If you run business you'll not sell under respectfull label of 40% brandy that 27% surrogate !

 

[riffjim4069]

Its just some of us face reality.. True HD is a myth and will never exist in the real world.. More HD channels= more subs/less bandwidth or Less HD channels= less subs/morebandwidth.. If you ran a business which path would you take???

I don't disagree with the business model, just don't call it High Definition or HD...market it as "HD Like" or "Higher Resolution TV" or "Better TV' or even "Charlievision" for that matter. I believe Fiber-to-the-Home will eventually solve the HD-Lite problem, but we're at least another year or two away from that happening.

 

[Juan]

I don't disagree with the business model, just don't call it High Definition or HD...market it as "HD Like" or "Higher Resolution TV" or "Better TV' or even "Charlievision" for that matter. I believe Fiber-to-the-Home will eventually solve the HD-Lite problem, but we're at least another year or two away from that happening.

Its not just Charlie!!! Its everybody!!! There just isnt sufficient bandwidth anywhere (including Fios) to support MASS HD channels

 

[Smith P.]

Wanna count current transponder's load ? Or continue blah blah ?
Also, where is your opinion about HONEST naming of the NON-HD channels ?

 

[Juan]

Wanna count current transponder's load ? Or continue blah blah ?
Also, where is your opinion about HONEST naming of the NON-HD channels ?

show me the FCC specs for satellite hd channels...ooops they dont exist so Charlie can call them whatever he wants

 

[scooby2]

It is funny that HD LiteApologists get frustrated and very touchy about an HD Lite Thread. They are now telling us to not even post a HD Lite thread. Isn't this even ridiculous? These are the same that accepted SD Lite and now are ok with HD Lite. What a freaking bunch? If you do not like this thread, do not respond to it but at least let others that do care do.

It is not the one thread. It is practically every thread about HD. Most people here would kill to have all HD-Lite posts confined to a single thread.

The HD Lite problem has grown even at higher level than a year ago. Now HDnet and HDnet movies have been degraded to same fate and this is right ?????? Give me a f*** break. Is this right? Let it be known that Dish Network is even a bigger offender today than DirecTv of HD Lite. Dish Network should say "better HD Lite TV for all"

The general public (99%) of the HD customers that Dish has would rather have more channels.

So you'd rather have them turn off 8-12 channels and make all HD channels including HD LiL full rez (Can't fit more then two full rez 1080i channels per transponder)? Mpeg4 doesnt appear able to do full rez and no one knows how long it will take until it can. Dish would then be stuck like D* not able to add channels for maybe years.

 

[scooby2]

I don't disagree with the business model, just don't call it High Definition or HD...market it as "HD Like" or "Higher Resolution TV" or "Better TV' or even "Charlievision" for that matter. I believe Fiber-to-the-Home will eventually solve the HD-Lite problem, but we're at least another year or two away from that happening.

Get the FCC/FTC/whoever to make it a law that you cannot advertise HD unless it is full resolution. Use stophdlite.com or something similiar and put up a petition.

 

[Bulldog]

There are so many variables

Folks you have to understand that even if everyone is receiving the same HD signal, your HDTV set and the display type whether it’s Tube Rear projection, LCD or Plasma, add to that your personal settings will have a varying effect on the quality of the display. In addition a "HD" channel doesn't mean it will always look like a pristine HD demo. For example, if ESPN HD is broadcasting a game that wasn't originally shot in HD, it won't look as sharp and detailed as it would if it had been shot with the latest high-def cameras, even at whatever resolution it is being broadcast by E* or cable at full or HD lite.

There are so many variables!

Now you add stores like Best Buy and Circuit City pitching 720P for their ideal HDTVs have cause some people to be confused because previously these store’s were pitching that ideal HDTV broadcast format was 1080i. They don’t know that when a 720p display receives a 1080i signal, it must down convert it to 720p. The resulting picture still looks great, but there's a slight loss in detail. The ideal HDTV is in fact the one that can display 1080p, that can deliver 1920 x1080 at 60 frames per second; since it has higher resolution it can display 1080i and 720p signals without sacrificing picture detail.

Again - There are so many variables!

Just my 2 cents folks.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Well I am hoping the mpeg 4 encoders will improve with time allowing Dish to do full hd resolution but do it about 80 % more effiecient than now. Right now they don't get much bandwith savings out the first generation mpeg4 encoders. With improvements to the encoders should come improvements with the amount of channels they can put in the same bandwith and with it improvement with the picture quality.

OF course if no one says anything I am sure that both Dish and Directv will still do hd lite even with the improvement in the encoders . Evidence to support this theory is when Voom had "fiber back haul " problems and that is why they reduced them to hd lite and that they were supposed to be back in full hd resolution by May of 2006. Well obviously that didn't happen. They are the truest form of hd lite we have on Dish.

But I must stay that I am impressed with my hd locals even if they are in mpeg 4 hd lite. They look pretty damn good compared to my ota stations and a HELL of a lot better than the compressed standard def locals on Dish.

 

[Sean Mota]

The whole problem about HDLite is that we all hear the promises that it will get better in the future and future has come and go and nothing has happened. Instead of going forward and fix the channels, Echostar has decided to go back and take two of the best channels that they had (hdnet and Hdnet movies) and make it into HD Lite.

I disagree and I think we have seen already the best HD from satellite. I do not think we will ever see anthing like we saw six months ago. From now on is HD Lite on satellite and probably cable. The only hope will be FIOS and HD DVD.

I do not agree that every thread is filled with HD Lite comments. There are tons of threads on Dish Network and not all of them are mentioning HD Lite. I do not get why the topic is such an irritation for some since we the HD Enthusiasts are not asking for anything that it is outrageous. We are asking to put the HDnet channels back to 1920x1080i. Is that so bad and outrageous that we need to hear from subs that they do not want to hear about it?

 

[dslate69]

Aggggggg it's the attack of the killer newbies.
_________________
622 to 34" 16:9 hdtv / 942 to 21" 4:3 tv. HD Platinum + CBS-HD + SS + SD DNS.

If my TV was as small as yours, I'd spend more time in the forums too.

 

[Foxbat]

I want to know why my eyes hurt after watching "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" on HDNet Movies the other night. Any time a video was being shown it appeared to be "fragmented", as if it was suposed to be 30 fps and was shown at 24 fps. I don't remember it looking this poorly when HDNet Movies did their "Day and Date" release last year.

Also, I see somewhat the same effect on Animania. The 3-D stuff (Voltron, Capt. Scarlett) seem to be suffering from the same sort of fps-assumption. Plus, there are horrible moire affects, but that could be bad anti-aliasing in the source material.

These observations are on my 811 connected to a Toshiba 34HF83 CRT.

 

[Kirby Baker]

I want to know why my eyes hurt after watching "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" on HDNet Movies the other night. Any time a video was being shown it appeared to be "fragmented", as if it was suposed to be 30 fps and was shown at 24 fps. I don't remember it looking this poorly when HDNet Movies did their "Day and Date" release last year.

Thats because I believe when Dish dropped both channels to 1440x1080i, they also started to inverse telecine (i think thats the correct term) HDnet Movies to drop it to 24 FPS. I havent checked that out, but someone else posted this info in another thread. The problem is that HDNet doesnt send out the proper flags for this (so I understand) and instead of deleting a duplicate frame, its actually dropping a unique frame. I'm sure someone will correct me on that if I am wrong.

 

[fenwah]

Sorry, by your description African Americans should have lived in despair and poverty, kept their mouth shut and so the civil rights movement never would have happened. Actually, by your statement, you try to excuse what happened in Germany on Economic Conditions which is much worse of insult - as it says that economic conditions justified it. And judging by your picture, Hitler would have had you in the furnaces before most people, so for you to justify keeping quiet is just mind boggling.

If something is wrong, poverty or conditions are no reason to keep your mouth shut.

If HD-Lite is wrong, shut up and accept it is also the wrong answer.

And to the others, if HD Lite doesn't bother you, why are you even reading this thread?

Um....okay...feeling a bit uncomfortable here.

 

[grb]

A layman's view of HD lite:

Yes, it's ok to complain about it and those that think not should stay out of this forum.

I have a Sony 60" RP LCD and I get OTA locals through a Voom receiver. The screen size is large enough to see the difference in PQ. In particular, the SD OTA channels appear clearer than the Dish locals. However, the Dish local HD is very good, although not as crisp as the OTA HD.

My opinion is that HD lite is a very presentable product. In fact, I see more difference between SD and the SD lite that Dish has presented over the last few years.

Given the minimal difference in PQ between HD and HD lite (assuming bit rate is sufficient to minimize or eliminate pixilation), Dish knows that the public will accept HD lite. It is less of a downgrade than SD to SD lite was and we all pretty much accepted that.

So HD lite will be the standard and 99.9% of viewers will be satisfied. There is so much variance in PQ depending upon source material that we often get substandard PQ anyway. This would still be true if it were presented in 1920 x 1080i.

So, while I'm not ready to embrace HD lite, I am willing to face the fact that this is the new standard and I will live with it...

 

[waltinvt]

If my TV was as small as yours, I'd spend more time in the forums too.

Now you know it's not how big it is but how you views it.

 

[sullivbt]

I agree, but....

While I agree that "HDLite" stinks, I do want to make one "technical definition" point. DISH is not "breaking the rules", as some posters seem to think, by advertising their "HDLite" as "HD", because, it is (in fact and by definition) "true" HD (regardless of whether we like it or not

To clarify: the original ATSC spec defines HD as being either 1280x720p or 1920x1080i. As long as DISH is broadcasting material that is equal to or superior than the "lowest" HD res (1280x720p) then he can legally claim it to be HD.

In fact, we're all just lucky that DISH, in fine Charlie E. fashion, doesn't bill their "HDLite" as "EnhancedHD" or something similiar I can almost hear it at the next Charlie Chat -"See, guys, that plain ol' HD is only 1280x720, but here at DISH we give you our own super- special, enhanced HD at an incredible 1440x1080"