Facts about HD Lite on E*
- Thread starter Sean Mota
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The main reason VOOM went belly-up IMO is that most people can't spell HDTV, much less care about HDTV. These are the same people who are now buying their first HDTV and hear no evil, see no evil, and speak no evil; HD-Lite is their cat's meow. Anyway, mismanagement, no leadership, quality control, DVR, LIL, etc., were all a distant second in the downfall of VOOM DBS.mdonnelly said:
You missed my point. If a provider were to hang their hat on providing only true HD, it would be to attract the HD "fanatics" that care about these things. The average sub that doesn't care would not be willing to pay a premium for true HD, so he wouldn't subscribe.HDTVFanAtic said:
Therefore, if the provider reneged on their promise, I expect his sub base (fanatics) would cancel the service...I know I wouldn't pay a premium for sub-par service!
This is all hypothetical, because unfortunately there is too small a base of those that demand true HD to interest any provider.
grb said:
No, you missed the point.
I am speaking of a marketing advertising campaign that is so clear that trailer park joe understands it.
You paid all that money for a brand new HDTV - and now satellite companies only give you 66% of the picture you paid for while cable gives you 100%.
It doesn't matter what happens next year or the year after as witnessed by satellite companies going back on their claims as pointed out above - 99.5% or more of the cable companies offer MPEG2 1920x1080i HDTV now and it is an effectively simple message that cuts to the heart of the satellite companies.
It is exactly the same marketing campaign that Satellite Companies used so successfully again cable for the last 10 years in reverse.
A more compelling campaign for trailer park joe would be equating HD-Lite to his Six-pack of Old Milkwaukee. "You paid for 6 cans, but we're just going to cut you down to 4, drink em fast, you wont know the difference". 
grb said:
Total point of all the debates - there are HD formats by standard - not "true HD" or "HD Lite" what should be eliminated from provider's practice to sell them as standard HD stream. They shouldn't treat those pseudo-HD as premium and charge for it telling how good it is.
Probably a word "substandard" will be more appropriate.
This forum seems like the home of some of the most descriminating HD viewers. Comcast has given me an offer, and I'm considering a switch.
Currently, I have a Sony Bravia LCD HDTV -- but the only HD I get is broadcast. Dish doesn't seem to be giving me a very good deal on an upgrade to HD. Comcast has just offered me $29.95/month 12 mos. on Digital Cable, add HDTV & DVR for another $15. Can any of you suggest a better deal I can get staying with *E? What would I lose in the switch?
Currently, I have a Sony Bravia LCD HDTV -- but the only HD I get is broadcast. Dish doesn't seem to be giving me a very good deal on an upgrade to HD. Comcast has just offered me $29.95/month 12 mos. on Digital Cable, add HDTV & DVR for another $15. Can any of you suggest a better deal I can get staying with *E? What would I lose in the switch?
HDTVfanAtic,
I said several cable companies are transmitting in HD-lite. To me, HD-lite includes limited bandwidth. I consider a 1920x1080i channel that gets 9Mbps of bandwidth to be HD-lite. Such a channel can have worse PQ than one that is down-rezzed to 1440x1080 and getting 15Mbps.
While I am not aware of any cable companies that are down-rezzing, I am aware of many that are overcompressing. That is still HD-lite in my book.
But if you want to reserve HD-lite to mean down-rezzing, then I'm willing to use the term HD-crap to represent over compression.
I said several cable companies are transmitting in HD-lite. To me, HD-lite includes limited bandwidth. I consider a 1920x1080i channel that gets 9Mbps of bandwidth to be HD-lite. Such a channel can have worse PQ than one that is down-rezzed to 1440x1080 and getting 15Mbps.
While I am not aware of any cable companies that are down-rezzing, I am aware of many that are overcompressing. That is still HD-lite in my book.
But if you want to reserve HD-lite to mean down-rezzing, then I'm willing to use the term HD-crap to represent over compression.
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I personally would switch to cable in a minute if my local Charter cable's HD offerings were good. But instead they suck to the high heavens on HD. They offer 7 HD channels, with middlin' PQ, and no HD DVR option. And even if one subs to their expanded digital tier with HD, you still get 75 channels in analog, and it's not a particulary good analog.
I do contract with Charter for cable modem services, and I would get a price break if I added a TV subscription. But in order to stand to watch it I'd need to go back to a 27" TV.
I do contract with Charter for cable modem services, and I would get a price break if I added a TV subscription. But in order to stand to watch it I'd need to go back to a 27" TV.
It's not an easy choice since cable HD offerings vary widely by provider and area. Earlier this year, the choice was simple: DishHD offered the most and best quality HD for the money...period! However, the playing field is quickly changing.
With the exception of 15 channels of VOOM, Verizon FiOS TV now offers just as many national HD channels (FiOS TV offers MTVHD and WealthTV whereas DishHD's FoodHD and HGTVH), plus all eight HD locals in my area. Plus, FiOS HD quality is full resolution vice the ever increasing HD-Lite versions being offered by DishHD. To me, it's mostly about the picture quality, but I must admit the ViP622 HD DVR blows the cable and FiOS boxes out of the water and the Dish EPG is much, much better.
My local Adelphia (now Comcast) only offers 12 HD channels (5 of them are locals), but they excellent...even with three HD channels per 256QAM (roughly 13Mb per HD channel) their variable encoders do an excellent job! For the short while I tried cable, their PQ was noticeably better than VOOM DBS who was showing their HD channels at 1440x1080i due to a shortage of transponder space (they only had one satellite at the time). The difference between 1920x1080i and 1440x1080i is noticeable, and the difference between 1920x1080i and 1280x1080i is huge!
At this point in time, I can no longer recommend DishHD to anyone who actually cares about picture quality. If I were you, I would try the Comcast offer. If you like it, then keep the service. If not, then you can always crawl back to E*. Are you in a FiOS area? Additionally, I believe you can try DirecTV for up to 30 days under a current promotion. Since you haven't made the switch to HD, I would try Comcast (you always cancel if you don't like the service) and see what DirecTV has to offer next Spring/Summer - they should have their new satellites in orbit by that time and, hopefully, finally delivering some HD.
With the exception of 15 channels of VOOM, Verizon FiOS TV now offers just as many national HD channels (FiOS TV offers MTVHD and WealthTV whereas DishHD's FoodHD and HGTVH), plus all eight HD locals in my area. Plus, FiOS HD quality is full resolution vice the ever increasing HD-Lite versions being offered by DishHD. To me, it's mostly about the picture quality, but I must admit the ViP622 HD DVR blows the cable and FiOS boxes out of the water and the Dish EPG is much, much better.
My local Adelphia (now Comcast) only offers 12 HD channels (5 of them are locals), but they excellent...even with three HD channels per 256QAM (roughly 13Mb per HD channel) their variable encoders do an excellent job! For the short while I tried cable, their PQ was noticeably better than VOOM DBS who was showing their HD channels at 1440x1080i due to a shortage of transponder space (they only had one satellite at the time). The difference between 1920x1080i and 1440x1080i is noticeable, and the difference between 1920x1080i and 1280x1080i is huge!
At this point in time, I can no longer recommend DishHD to anyone who actually cares about picture quality. If I were you, I would try the Comcast offer. If you like it, then keep the service. If not, then you can always crawl back to E*. Are you in a FiOS area? Additionally, I believe you can try DirecTV for up to 30 days under a current promotion. Since you haven't made the switch to HD, I would try Comcast (you always cancel if you don't like the service) and see what DirecTV has to offer next Spring/Summer - they should have their new satellites in orbit by that time and, hopefully, finally delivering some HD.
Tom Bombadil said:
You will NEVER get a minimum bitrate defined for HDTV as it doesn't exist.
The newer encoders at 13Mbps can look much better than the older first and second generation encoders at 18Mbps.
Thus all bitrate is not created equal.
We can all agree on what down rez of signal is - in fact stations are fighting it in Congress now against cable.
That is the EASIEST to define and what you use in an attack against Satellite if you are the Cable Industry.
Again, THINK POLITICAL ADVERTISING. You sell the negatives of your opponent - not your own. This is what Satellite did to cable in the 90s and what cable now can do to satellite.
Yes, I understand that not all bit rates are equal - and have said so in numerous other posts.
And it is definitely easier to identify and attack down-rezzing, even when bit-starving can be a more significant issue.
Unfortunately TV stations are over compressing at the source as far as HDTV programming is concerned, in order to offer more digital sub-channels.
It is too bad that digital audio and video can be so good, yet are almost always abused and end up being mediocre when delivered through commercial channels. Witness iTunes and its crappy audio quality.
And it is definitely easier to identify and attack down-rezzing, even when bit-starving can be a more significant issue.
Unfortunately TV stations are over compressing at the source as far as HDTV programming is concerned, in order to offer more digital sub-channels.
It is too bad that digital audio and video can be so good, yet are almost always abused and end up being mediocre when delivered through commercial channels. Witness iTunes and its crappy audio quality.
foghorn2 said:
That will be great for movies. What about NFL football and other live sports?
An HD-DVD player would satisfy about 5% of my HD viewing...
I find attending the games in person to be over saturated with color. Outdoor games tend to be really bright. And I can't find the setting to shut up the guy behind me.foghorn2 said:Go to the games and experience true HD brought to you by mother nature
I love the idea, but as for going to a Formula One race, I'd see a lot more of it on TV than in person.foghorn2 said:Go to the games and experience true HD brought to you by mother nature
Wouldn't have to break out the SPF-99 sun block.
And the savings on those international flights every week would fund one hell of a fine receiver / display!
dslate69 said:I find attending the games in person to be over saturated with color. Outdoor games tend to be really bright. And I can't find the setting to shut up the guy behind me.
And if it rains or if foggy, Tom Bombadil and the Cable Choice Guy who won't choose Cable will be crying foul at mother nature for giving them HD-Lite
Brighthouse vs. Dish
I have both Brighthouse Networks Tampa Bay and Dish. I have HD DVRs for both and I have read all this negative talk about HD Lite on Dish. One poster said that HDNet and HDNet Movies are fed on HD Lite over Dish. That may be true but to the naked eye I notice no difference in the look of the picture when comparing the two.
My setup in one room is HDMI for Brighthouse and Component for Dish. That isn't the room I tested in as the HDMI is clearly better and had an unfair advantage when comparing.
My test was done in my living room. The setup is a component switch box from Radio Shack that shares the two component feeds (Brighthouse and Dish) and with the press of the buttons I can quickly switch between Brighthouse and Dish with no delay to clog my mind. I set both boxes to an HD movie on HDNet Movies and repeatedly switched between feeds, Brighthouse, Dish, Brighthouse, Dish... and the ONLY difference between the two was that Brighthouse was about a half a second ahead of dish on the feed. The picture was IDENTICAL.
This discussion is overrated. HD Lite isn't so bad. Not to the naked eye anyway.
Of course neither feed is as good as my HD-DVD player.
I have both Brighthouse Networks Tampa Bay and Dish. I have HD DVRs for both and I have read all this negative talk about HD Lite on Dish. One poster said that HDNet and HDNet Movies are fed on HD Lite over Dish. That may be true but to the naked eye I notice no difference in the look of the picture when comparing the two.
My setup in one room is HDMI for Brighthouse and Component for Dish. That isn't the room I tested in as the HDMI is clearly better and had an unfair advantage when comparing.
My test was done in my living room. The setup is a component switch box from Radio Shack that shares the two component feeds (Brighthouse and Dish) and with the press of the buttons I can quickly switch between Brighthouse and Dish with no delay to clog my mind. I set both boxes to an HD movie on HDNet Movies and repeatedly switched between feeds, Brighthouse, Dish, Brighthouse, Dish... and the ONLY difference between the two was that Brighthouse was about a half a second ahead of dish on the feed. The picture was IDENTICAL.
This discussion is overrated. HD Lite isn't so bad. Not to the naked eye anyway.
Of course neither feed is as good as my HD-DVD player.
