Convince me

[eidco]

We've had E* for about 7 years now. We started out with their early dual tuner and then got a 721 DVR unit when they came out a few years ago. Using a Sony video distribution system, we have 5 TVs all viewing from the same tuner/DVR unit and can control it with an RF remote in each room. Caller ID appears on the screen when someone calls. In fact, we often leave a muted TV on in our offices just to make use of caller ID.

So we decided it's finally time to take the HD plunge. When I realized we'd have to upgrade the DVR and the dish, I thought we should take a look at D* since it would be like we were starting over. I liked the idea of Tivo management of scheduled recording because with E*, the schedules are locked to a time and a channel. It's a constant hassle to keep track of network programming as they move their shows around.

With all things being equal (programming, equipment, etc.) between E* and D*, we decided to make the switch based solely on the Tivo advantage. So we got an H-20 and began to realize that all things are not equal. We're about ready to return the D* system and go back to E* based on these complaints:

1. No caller ID.

2. No RF remote support. We'll have to get a receiver for each room to keep what we're used to.

3. Intolerably slow display in the programming guide. It's not just 1-2 seconds for a screenful. It's 1-2 seconds for each channel. It takes 6-14 seconds to display an entire page of 8 channels. This is unacceptable.

4. When HDMI output is set to 1080i, for the connected HD TV, the other 4 TVs lose their picture (480i) over the video distribution system (from RCA composite output). This problem may not be solved with the E* system either.

So I encourage you D* fans to convince me not to return my frustrating D* system and switch back to E*. Maybe there are solutions to these problems that I haven't discovered. Thanks.

P.S. I'm not interested in sports, so differences in sports programming don't matter to me.

 

[mikew]

1) You're right
2) You can buy a device that turns any remote into RF. It's about $60.00 through Value Electronics
3) You're right
4) You're right ( I don't know if E* lets you view composite while HDMI is active)


With the new 622, you do get Name Based Recording that you didn't have with the 721. It also outputs a seperate signal to the rest of your house using it's own built in UHF modulator. You may be much happier with E* than D* at this time.

D* is developing it's own HD PVR. It will have NBR and RF capabilities. You may have switched too soon. The initial reaction to the R15, which the new DVR will be based, has been rather negative. The jury's out on whether the new HD DVR will be reliable and better than the Tivo.

Tivo still has the possiblity of being upgraded to version 6.2. If that ever happens, there will be a big improvement on the speed issue.


The only major issue with E* is that their DVR only has one OTA tuner. I live in an area where all of my locals can be received OTA and my local digitals are not available on satellite. If I had E*, I could only record one HD network program at a time. If you get OTA HD, and can't get it over satellite, that is a big advantage on Tivo's side.

Oh...did I mention Sunday Ticket???????

 

[directvfreak]

The H-20 has an RF remote.

 

[ddeloach1228]

Where are your interests in programming? NFL Ticket? (DirecTv). HD Programming, right now, Dish. Other differences also.

 

[Chrisc490]

I liked the idea of Tivo management of scheduled recording because with E*, the schedules are locked to a time and a channel. It's a constant hassle to keep track of network programming as they move their shows around.

That may have been the case with the 721, but the VIP 622, which is the receiver you'd be getting from E* for HD DVR, supports Name-Based Recording and will find the shows you want regardless of time. In fact, all current DISH DVR's support this feature. The 721 is a pretty old model. The other advantage is that you won't need the distribution system, because the VIP 622 has a TV2 outlet that will support all channels in 480i and RF remote use. So you can just split the line to all other televisions from the TV2 outlet, and use the TV2 RF remote(s) to change the channel. You probably should have researched the DISH Network offerings a bit more before you made the jump.

 

[bgilga]

I have an H-20 with caller id. It's great. The number pops up on the screen so I don't even have to look at the phone.

 

[Jimbo]

We've had E* for about 7 years now. We started out with their early dual tuner and then got a 721 DVR unit when they came out a few years ago. Using a Sony video distribution system, we have 5 TVs all viewing from the same tuner/DVR unit and can control it with an RF remote in each room. Caller ID appears on the screen when someone calls. In fact, we often leave a muted TV on in our offices just to make use of caller ID.

So we decided it's finally time to take the HD plunge. When I realized we'd have to upgrade the DVR and the dish, I thought we should take a look at D* since it would be like we were starting over. I liked the idea of Tivo management of scheduled recording because with E*, the schedules are locked to a time and a channel. It's a constant hassle to keep track of network programming as they move their shows around.

With all things being equal (programming, equipment, etc.) between E* and D*, we decided to make the switch based solely on the Tivo advantage. So we got an H-20 and began to realize that all things are not equal. We're about ready to return the D* system and go back to E* based on these complaints:

1. No caller ID.

2. No RF remote support. We'll have to get a receiver for each room to keep what we're used to.

3. Intolerably slow display in the programming guide. It's not just 1-2 seconds for a screenful. It's 1-2 seconds for each channel. It takes 6-14 seconds to display an entire page of 8 channels. This is unacceptable.

4. When HDMI output is set to 1080i, for the connected HD TV, the other 4 TVs lose their picture (480i) over the video distribution system (from RCA composite output). This problem may not be solved with the E* system either.

So I encourage you D* fans to convince me not to return my frustrating D* system and switch back to E*. Maybe there are solutions to these problems that I haven't discovered. Thanks.

P.S. I'm not interested in sports, so differences in sports programming don't matter to me.

======================================================
Did you turn the Caller ID to the ON position in the menu ?

Originally you talked about an E DVR, but you purchased a Non DVR from D*.

How can you even begin to compare receivers ?
The H-20 does have a RF remote as well, you need to turn it on in the menus as well.

Jimbo

 

[eidco]

Thanks

Thanks for all the replies. I was mistaken about my model number. It's an HR10-250. It does not have caller ID, nor RF (UHF) remote.

Just as quickly as I jumped into D*, I've jumped back out. I just called and cancelled.

We're not interested in sports (gee, how is it possible?) so there's no lure to D* with programming. In using D* for 4 days (running around the house to change the channel when we're not in the living room), I haven't found a single channel in D*'s premium package that we'd want and that is not in E*'s premium package.

If I switched to the HR20 box, it would seem to solve 2 of my problems. However, the biggest complaint for both my wife and I is the intolerably slow programming guide. I didn't see anyone comment on that and did see other complaints in another thread here. We're used to paging through the E* guide at about 1 second per page with occasional frustration if it takes 2 seconds.

The grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence, but for now we'll just stick with the shade we're used to.

Thanks.

 

[JAG72]

Thanks for all the replies. I was mistaken about my model number. It's an HR10-250. It does not have caller ID, nor RF (UHF) remote.

Just as quickly as I jumped into D*, I've jumped back out. I just called and cancelled.

We're not interested in sports (gee, how is it possible?) so there's no lure to D* with programming. In using D* for 4 days (running around the house to change the channel when we're not in the living room), I haven't found a single channel in D*'s premium package that we'd want and that is not in E*'s premium package.

If I switched to the HR20 box, it would seem to solve 2 of my problems. However, the biggest complaint for both my wife and I is the intolerably slow programming guide. I didn't see anyone comment on that and did see other complaints in another thread here. We're used to paging through the E* guide at about 1 second per page with occasional frustration if it takes 2 seconds.

The grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence, but for now we'll just stick with the shade we're used to.

Thanks.

The slow program guide is a result of old Tivo software. The HR20 is not going to be a Tivo system. I currently have both the H20 and the HR10-250 and the difference is night and day. If the new HR20 is like the H20 you would have been happy with the speed of the guide.

 

[TulsaCoker]

Jag your right, I have two H10 receivers and the guide is lightning fast.

 

[Jimbo]

Hopefully there was no cancellation fees involved with the E service you cancelled, and you can get turned back on easily.

You may want to look at D* once the HR-20 DVR comes out...
As for the coments about being slow?
No one knows seeing it is not out yet.

That said, seeing EVERYONE knows about the speed issues of the old TIVO system, lets hope D* takes this into consideration when building the HR20

Jimbo

 

[KE4EST]

That said, seeing EVERYONE knows about the speed issues of the old TIVO system, lets hope D* takes this into consideration when building the HR20

I sure hope so!!

 

[eidco]

Update

I thought I'd post what's happened since my earlier questions and decisions.

My E* HD DVR (vip622) was installed today, and I'm extremely happy with it. It's everything I want. As a reminder, we've been E* users for 7-8 years(?), so a lot of our comfort level is defined by what we're used to. The only reason we switched to D* was to get the Tivo name-based programming. That seems to be handled nicely in the 622.

Our main compaints with D* were slow guide display, no caller ID, and no UHF remote. As has been discussed here, these would be solved by upgrading to the H20 (we had the H10). We purchased our H10 from Costco and I didn't research the unit, just assumed that it was the latest and greatest. I'm a bit surprised at Costco for this.

I made several calls to D* in the process of of cancelling my service. I didn't want it cancelled until E* was reinstalled, but they kept cutting off my programming prematurely. I should have just waited until the E* unit was up and running. One of my complaints with D* customer service is that not once did someone ask why I was unhappy with the service. If they had, they could have told me that the H10 was obsolete, and maybe offer a free upgrade to keep me as a customer, maybe offer a month or two of free programming. We had selected the Platinum (everything) package, so I would think we'd be customers worth keeping. I see D* as the "AOL" of satellite services. They're only interested in "getting" customers, not keeping them.

The other big compaint I had was with the installer company. The D* installer took down my E* dish and replaced it with the D* dish. But he took my multi-switch, so when we wanted to swtich back to E*, we couldn't. During a 3-day period, I made 8 calls totalling several hours (mostly on hold), talking to 6-8 people, all of whom lied to me. They wasted a lot of time for themselves and me by refusing to return or replace or even to admit responsibility for a $35 multi-switch. The company is LA based and is called Connect Television.

Can you believe I'm trying to keep this short?

Lastly, let me mention a couple of the smaller niceties of E* that we didn't get with D*. We really missed (in our 10-day sentence with D*) the ability to jump forward by 30-seconds in the DVR. I see this as an attempt to force us to watch the commercials (is D* the "Fox News" of satellite systems?). Also, fast-forwarding lacks all of the speed options of E*, which has a super-high speed of 300x alllowing you to quickly navigate through a long recording. And what is D*'s jump-to-end good for? It doesn't even take you to the very end (if you really wanted to go there) so you still get to watch the last 30-second commercial.

Also, in the E* program guide, you'll see a red dot by any show that's scheduled to record. We missed that little feature in D*.

Thanks for all your help and for allowing me to rant. Everyone has their own opinions about the things they like. I know D* is the more popular satellite system and I have to wonder why. Perhaps, it's just that most people just learn to like what they're used to. Having been exposed to both systems, we're very happy to be back with E*.

 

[Jimbo]

I thought I'd post what's happened since my earlier questions and decisions.

My E* HD DVR (vip622) was installed today, and I'm extremely happy with it. It's everything I want. As a reminder, we've been E* users for 7-8 years(?), so a lot of our comfort level is defined by what we're used to. The only reason we switched to D* was to get the Tivo name-based programming. That seems to be handled nicely in the 622.
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Our main compaints with D* were slow guide display, no caller ID, and no UHF remote. As has been discussed here, these would be solved by upgrading to the H20 (we had the H10). We purchased our H10 from Costco and I didn't research the unit, just assumed that it was the latest and greatest. I'm a bit surprised at Costco for this.
- - - - - - -- - - - - -
I have mentioned this several times, I cannot believe the amount of times I am seeing DISH people bash D*'s HD DVR, by compairing it to D*'s OLD DVR with DISH's BRAND NEW ONE.
Of course you will like it better and pioint out all the things DISH DVR has over the D* old one, granted, D*'s is not out yet, but I think it is unfair, If DISH's DVR was not out yet and D* had a BRAND NEW DVR I am sure,it too would have features that the DISH did not.
I for one would make sure I was comparing two units that were of the same generation.
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I made several calls to D* in the process of of cancelling my service. I didn't want it cancelled until E* was reinstalled, but they kept cutting off my programming prematurely. I should have just waited until the E* unit was up and running. One of my complaints with D* customer service is that not once did someone ask why I was unhappy with the service. If they had, they could have told me that the H10 was obsolete, and maybe offer a free upgrade to keep me as a customer, maybe offer a month or two of free programming. We had selected the Platinum (everything) package, so I would think we'd be customers worth keeping. I see D* as the "AOL" of satellite services. They're only interested in "getting" customers, not keeping them.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
They should have dealt with this much better than they did, sorry you didn't get help, I think I would have tryed calling back, for some reason, no two reps have the same information, this goes for D*, DISH and Cable as well, no two people interpet the info the same...No sure why that is.....
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The other big compaint I had was with the installer company. The D* installer took down my E* dish and replaced it with the D* dish. But he took my multi-switch, so when we wanted to swtich back to E*, we couldn't. During a 3-day period, I made 8 calls totalling several hours (mostly on hold), talking to 6-8 people, all of whom lied to me. They wasted a lot of time for themselves and me by refusing to return or replace or even to admit responsibility for a $35 multi-switch. The company is LA based and is called Connect Television.

Can you believe I'm trying to keep this short?

Lastly, let me mention a couple of the smaller niceties of E* that we didn't get with D*. We really missed (in our 10-day sentence with D*) the ability to jump forward by 30-seconds in the DVR. I see this as an attempt to force us to watch the commercials (is D* the "Fox News" of satellite systems?). Also, fast-forwarding lacks all of the speed options of E*, which has a super-high speed of 300x alllowing you to quickly navigate through a long recording. And what is D*'s jump-to-end good for? It doesn't even take you to the very end (if you really wanted to go there) so you still get to watch the last 30-second commercial.

Also, in the E* program guide, you'll see a red dot by any show that's scheduled to record. We missed that little feature in D*.
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Thanks for all your help and for allowing me to rant. Everyone has their own opinions about the things they like. I know D* is the more popular satellite system and I have to wonder why. Perhaps, it's just that most people just learn to like what they're used to. Having been exposed to both systems, we're very happy to be back with E*.

--- - -- -- -- -- -- -- --
I know D* is the more popular satellite system and I have to wonder why.

If you were an NFL fan you would not have asked this question

Personally, and this is just my opinion......
You never really wanted to move to D*
Generally speaking Customer service went out the door 25 years ago EVERYWHERE.... Most stores you go into do not have enough employees that have a clue, occassionally you will find someone that knows the product, normally not.

I usually have to do my homework ahead of time, so I know what I am after before I go in.

Jimbo

 

[chazcbh]

All the stuff you are talking about with the skip to end and and fast forward are all TIVO things not D* things.

 

[cheer]

For me, the Tivo was the thing that got me to switch from E* some time back. At the time E* had nothing remotely comparable.

Some of the things you mention (guide speed for example) are unique to the HD DVR; the SD DVRs have no such limitation.

Others can be added -- 30 second skip is a simple remote code to enter; caller ID is trickier but can be done (I have caller ID running on all my Tivos, and I don't even have phone lines connected; it's a client/server based system). For those of us who like to tinker, the Tivos are much more attractive as their functionality can be significantly enhanced in ways that are simply not possible with Dish PVRs.

For me, programming was more or less a wash -- I lost a couple of non-critical things moving from E* to D*, but then I gained a couple of non-critical things too. I don't do the sports packages. Finally, the cost of doing a four-DVR setup was more reasonable on D* (and, in fact, I couldn't get E* to even give me a quote on such a thing back then, and they would've been single-tuner PVRs anyway).