BUSTED! Deflategate: Pats deliberately did it!

[Tampa8]

You have to separate the Patriots and Brady. Kraft did nothing towards whatever is or is not going to happen to Brady. At no time was Kraft going to do any kind of negotiating about Brady's situation. It does not matter what other clubs think or don't think. Kraft may indeed have acted on behalf of the Patriots organization after hearing from other clubs, but not anything to do with Brady's suspension. I think people are not understanding this is a labor dispute between the NFL and a player. And just like the Saints players who when finally reaching arbitration had all punishment overturned, so too does the Players Association want this to go before arbitration or a Court, not the Commissioner.

If this was going straight to arbitration (or a Court case) that would be the end of it. Whatever the outcome it would be the final word. But unless all punishment is dropped for Brady (And perhaps statements from the NFL he was not involved) it likely isn't going to be over because it is the Commissioner deciding it. Just like the Saints players, who had all punishment dropped when they won the right to go past the Commissioner. Nothing is certain of course, but as time goes by it is more and more likely no outside tribunal is going to look at the Wells report and conclude Brady was involved, IF anything even happened.

 

[Tampa8]

I think Kraft wants him to go to court, in all honesty. He wants a judge to rule that the Wells report is garbage. If that happens, which most legal experts think it will. Kraft will than go to Rog and say "Now about that 1st round pick". I don't think they'll get it back but it will make the commish look really bad.

That is an interesting point to which I do not know what would happen. Because it is going to be about Brady everything will center around there being no proof in the report to support any kind of punishment. (Of Brady) That is a little different than saying nothing happened only that Brady was not shown to be involved if something did happen. If in the course of things the report were to be totally debunked, would that have Kraft go back to the Commissioner? I don't know.

 

[Derwin0]

I think Kraft wants him to go to court, in all honesty. He wants a judge to rule that the Wells report is garbage. If that happens, which most legal experts think it will. Kraft will than go to Rog and say "Now about that 1st round pick". I don't think they'll get it back but it will make the commish look really bad.

What's a judge going to rule? Workplace rules and punishment do not fall under judicial jurisdiction, as it's not a court. And any ruling on "evidence" has to be based on what the contract says, not per court rules on evidence. The NFL (with the Players Association) recently changed the guidelines to be "more probable than not". Which is what the arbitration will have to go by. Beyond a reasonable doubt has no bearing.

The only relief he possibly has arbitration, per the contract between the league and players association.

 

[salsadancer7]

What's a judge going to rule? Workplace rules and punishment do not fall under judicial jurisdiction, as it's not a court. And any ruling on "evidence" has to be based on what the contract says, not per court rules on evidence. The NFL (with the Players Association) recently changed the guidelines to be "more probable than not". Which is what the arbitration will have to go by. Beyond a reasonable doubt has no bearing.

The only relief he possibly has arbitration, per the contract between the league and players association.

Totally forgot about that part.

 

[Tampa8]

What's a judge going to rule? Workplace rules and punishment do not fall under judicial jurisdiction,

Many labor disputes have made their way to federal court over workplace rules brought by a Union. The New Orlean Saints players and the Players Union were in Court over their suspensions, but withdrew when an arbitration panel overturned the Commissioner. It's true Courts are not always thrilled to get involved, but they can/do have jurisdiction.

Second, the workplace rules do take center stage, but an arbiter does not just go by the rules of the workplace, very differently they interpret what those rules are or mean and looks at evidence. Specifically in this case, there are set rules for what the punishment is if the ball is not at the legal weight. There is wiggle room that it can be more punishment than the stated amount. The arbiter can determine it was never intended that a punishment of this magnitude be levied especially when there are independant studies showing the basis the NFL is using to punish is flawed. And evidence is absolutely introduced to arbiters as it would be in Court (Not as formal) to show the actions of the employer (NFL) are based in error. And, the arbiter can decide there should be no punishment at all if the premises for the punishment is thought to be wrong.

In a Court case I was involved in it was about the use of Townwide employee rules being applied to the Union contract. Anything not covered in the Contract was deferred to Townwide employee rules if it existed and that was stated in the Contract. However there was one rule being enforced that changed a long standing "unwritten rule" employees were allowed to do. The Town pointed to the Contract and said this "unwritten rule" was not in the Contract and thus the language allowed them to apply the Townwide rule. The Union applied in Court and the preliminary conference was not good for the Town so the case and Townwide rule was dropped. It is quite clear in the Contract and If only the work rules were being looked at the Union would have lost, but the Court looks at all evidence.
(Specifically the Court probably would have ruled silence of a rule already in place when a new Contract is negotiated does not automatically mean that rule no longer exists, it can result in that but not in every case)

 

[BillD1984]

Hey Rog, do yourself a favor today.When you're sitting across the table from TB12, just remember one thing.......when you mess with the G.O.A.T, you'll get the horns!!

 

[Tampa8]

Just to underline the fact that Union Labor disputes most certainly can go to a Federal Court;
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/tom-brady-case-likely-headed-for-federal-court/

And, that story highlights exactly my comments, going to Federal Court can be because the punishment is greater than ever imagined in the negotiation process and resulting contract. That is going to be a major point unless the punishment is severely lessened.

 

[Derwin0]

a 4-game suspension is more than ever imagined? Seriously?

 

[Tampa8]

Did you read the link? I guess not.
"Indeed,” the union wrote, “no player in the history of the NFL has ever received anything approaching this level of discipline for similar behavior — a change in sanctions squarely forbidden by the CBA and the law of the shop.”

The Ray Rice suspension for beating up his the girlfriend? (Until public pressure) Two games. People forget so soon. Not only a horrendous situation, but with no dispute it happened. This is circumstantial evidence with well revered outside evidence the Wells report is in error, and for maybe having a couple of ounces of air less than is supposed to be there. So yes, much much more than one would imagine.

And if ESPN has it right, Brady is giving his side of it under oath. That is not mandatory in the NFL appeal process and is usually done when a Court case is anticipated, that way what is said can be admitted in the Court case.

 

[Peter Parker]

I guess my problem with the severity of the suspension comes from the fact that the report it is based on did not say much. It said basically that he must have known about it (agreed) but never presented solid evidence of anything. Do you let it go unpunished? No. But do you suspend him for four games?

 

[Tampa8]

And it's getting a little worse for the NFL as this drags on. The link is from a Boston radio station, BUT the content is about a very independant source... The Morning show there from the very begining questioned that the two people in the NFL office were directly involved in all this.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/f...24/whispers-grow-louder-nfl-out-get-patriots-

 

[Kraven]

At this point Goosell has to pull the plug on this and avoid being further embarrassed.

If this goes to court and he gets one more "loss" under his belt...he'll lose all credibility to govern the NFL.

 

[Rey]

At this point Goosell has to pull the plug on this and avoid being further embarrassed.

If this goes to court and he gets one more "loss" under his belt...he'll lose all credibility to govern the NFL.

You'd love that wouldn't ya?!?!?!?!??! I will do everything in my POWER to not let that happen!!!

 

[Kraven]

You'd love that wouldn't ya?!?!?!?!??! I will do everything in my POWER to not let that happen!!!

 

[Tampa8]

Lol.....

 

[salsadancer7]

At this point Goosell has to pull the plug on this and avoid being further embarrassed.

If this goes to court and he gets one more "loss" under his belt...he'll lose all credibility to govern the NFL.

It will not happen. IF the LEAGUE wanted that, they would have forced him to tuck his tail between his legs and be done with it a long time ago. AGAIN, most of the owners, from the lack of complaints or lack of a cry for Goodell's head, went this to go through.

 

[Hart5150]

It will not happen. IF the LEAGUE wanted that, they would have forced him to tuck his tail between his legs and be done with it a long time ago. AGAIN, most of the owners, from the lack of complaints or lack of a cry for Goodell's head, went this to go through.

I don't think federal judge will give 2 craps what the other 31 owners think now. But, when Goodell is emasculated in court once again and will have wasted 5+ million dollars than maybe some opions will change, who knows.

This is where the NFL kills me, they give 5 million to one of their friends law firm for an "investigation" but they act like they have no money to put stationary cameras on the goal line. Must be Goodell logic.

The only good thing to come out of this is that Herr Goodell will never show his face in Foxboro again.

 

[Kraven]

It will not happen. IF the LEAGUE wanted that, they would have forced him to tuck his tail between his legs and be done with it a long time ago. AGAIN, most of the owners, from the lack of complaints or lack of a cry for Goodell's head, went this to go through.

In other words, what you're really saying is.... as long as the money keeps flowing in all is good in Mayberry.

 

[salsadancer7]

In other words, what you're really saying is.... as long as the money keeps flowing in all is good in Mayberry.

According to the other 31 owners.....yes.

 

[salsadancer7]

I don't think federal judge will give 2 craps what the other 31 owners think now. But, when Goodell is emasculated in court once again and will have wasted 5+ million dollars than maybe some opions will change, who knows.

This is where the NFL kills me, they give 5 million to one of their friends law firm for an "investigation" but they act like they have no money to put stationary cameras on the goal line. Must be Goodell logic.

The only good thing to come out of this is that Herr Goodell will never show his face in Foxboro again.

I maybe wrong, but it won't go that far. I honestly think Kraft will say he is on his own and they may prevent him fro taking it that far.