10,000 dead?

[T2k]

Your statement implies that the current situation in America is somehow radically different than it ever has been. And how do intend to change it?

For example education like this. When I publicly embarrass clueless pseudo-patritotic ignorant right-wingers.

I must have missed that-perhaps you could tell me the post number where you explained why you are here.

SDO your own research, pal. I'm tired of your ignorant crap.

The number of ridiculous statements in the above paragraph alone are amazing. Bush lied to take us to war to enrich his friends? Who really believes this type of nonsense-I mean who believes it that is out of High School?

Apparently more and more people in America and most of the world. Of course, it doesn't effect you, since you have very strong beliefs - nevertheless reality is there and it doesn't care about your childish beliefs in the "good" administration.

So no one hated America until Bush took office? Wow, that must have been some job he did on the world to create enough hatred in 8 months that led to the 9/11 attacks. America has been hated for a long time. Go to Frontpage Mag.com and read the two recent articles that explain why hatred of America is based on envy.

I understand that you suffer from the same disease like every victim of the low-level education but please, try to bear with me:
we never 'enjoyed' this scale of hatred != we never been hated

Capisce?
Interpret, not only read.

Another thing I wish you could explain is why the oil industry is “evil” and the, oh let’s say animation business is not?

There's no such thing as 'evil' industry. People are evil, industry merely an expression, it cannot het or feel like a living entity.

Does the animation business use any oil-based products such as plastic? Do its employees drive cars? If the oil industry is evil (which it isn’t) perhaps consumers of oil are as guilty as anyone.

Partially yes and that's why I'm proud that I don't have a car, especially not an SUV. Also when and where I have a chance, I use green power. If I would afford it, I'd use my own solar plant, let me tell you.

And Clinton didn’t do anything for eight years except get impeached and play with a girl under the desk.

Oh, yes. Because this idiotic jesusfreak did anything but missed all the steps including all the reports prior to 9/11, now put up the diamond to his 'King of Retards" crown by finally leaving 50-100 thousand people on roofs and sport stadiums without water, wc and food for days? He took this nation to a completely rubbish war, essentially causing that while the National Guard, which is supposedly home-based force only, chasing barefeet arabs in the sand in Mesopotamia. their own states are drowning under water.
Thanks for the achievements.

Any small steps he took were not enough to “abandon oil-chasing”. Oil will be “abandoned” when alternative fuels become plentiful and economically feasible. Given the way the price of oil is heading that may be sooner than later.

You're ignorant again. US is way more oil-dependant than any other country including the same developed Europe or Japan. US is only 5% of the population yet consumes 1/3rd of the world oil consumption.

Oh by the way-how did Bush “lie”?

In numerous cases but it's quite irrelevant here.

 

[T2k]

Konstantin Tsiolkovsky worked out the basic equations for rocketry in 1908 but never built or flew a single rocket. Hermann Oberth independantly worked out the same equations and some of what Goddard had done before him but he, and his student Wernher Von Braun, acknowledged that Goddard was way ahead of them.

Ciolkovsky couldn't do anything under the civil war, the Soviets came in power etc. I have yet to see that statement from Oberth. Besides he did post his work years before Goddard, so it's quite obvious Goddard used it, I think - it was the modern age in 1920s and Oberth didn't live under Soviets.

While I admit that there was a lot of German influence in our space program you are kidding yourself if you think they were the only ones who made meaningfull contributions.

Mario

I never said that. I just pointed out that without German or rather European contributions US couldn't be the winner of any race, especially not the nuclear or space race.

 

[T2k]

He claims he is not anti-American but look at the what he does do diminish all American achievment.

Blah-blah. Whatever makes you feel happy, pal.

 

[T2k]

Some of those are in reference to your previous racist accusations. I don't see any other contries putting as many people from different cultures into space as we are.

You didn't make it clear why these funny "firsts" - one would think you've posted them as counter argument on Soviets' firsts.

And none of those diminish the other accomplishments listed.

Mario

Sure. But leaving them out the list suddenly becomes shorter by 2/3rd.

PS: that's all for tonight, folks, I'm going to watch some movie (OMG French movie! TERRRAR ANTIAMERICAN TERRAR! ) with my wife - she's much more interesting than you guys. G'nite everyone.

 

[CPanther95]

T2K, you really have your head up your a$$. You list the Soviet achievements, then claim landing on the moon is insignificant compared to what the Soviets accomplished - and it was just "luck"??

You need some serious education. Or at least some common sense. It is your right to despise America - and it's our right to think you're an a-hole.

 

[mperdue]

I have yet to see that statement from Oberth. Besides he did post his work years before Goddard, so it's quite obvious Goddard used it, I think - it was the modern age in 1920s and Oberth didn't live under Soviets.

Wrong again! Goddard published "A Method of Reaching Extreme Altitudes" in 1920. On May 3rd, 1922 Oberth wrote to Goddard and requested a copy of it which Goddard sent. Oberth's work "The Rocket into Interplanetary Space" was published in 1923. The addendum to that work says this in reference to Goddard, "my theoretical approach is supplemented by his practical work." Oberth didn't fire a liquid fueled rocket motor until the fall of 1929, three years after Goddard flew a liquid fueled rocket.

Mario

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

For example education like this. When I publicly embarrass clueless pseudo-patritotic ignorant right-wingers.
SDO your own research, pal. I'm tired of your ignorant crap.

More insults-what a surprise.

Apparently more and more people in America and most of the world. Of course, it doesn't effect you, since you have very strong beliefs - nevertheless reality is there and it doesn't care about your childish beliefs in the "good" administration.

The people of the world are not necessarily interested in what is good for America so I am not that concerned about what they believe. There have been several poor Presidential administrations in history. Carter, Clinton, Harding and Andrew Johnson to name a few. Let’s say for the sake of argument that Bush is the worst President in history. Do you really believe the country won’t survive it? Why isn’t he being impeached?

I understand that you suffer from the same disease like every victim of the low-level education but please, try to bear with me:
we never 'enjoyed' this scale of hatred != we never been hated

Capisce?
Interpret, not only read.

More insults. And I am sorry, but America has been hated in the past and may be again. We are in the middle of a war and war is understandably never a popular thing. You might stop to think that could be part of the reason.

There's no such thing as 'evil' industry. People are evil, industry merely an expression, it cannot het or feel like a living entity.

You are correct-industry is not evil including oil.

Partially yes and that's why I'm proud that I don't have a car, especially not an SUV. Also when and where I have a chance, I use green power. If I would afford it, I'd use my own solar plant, let me tell you.

You don’t have a car-fine. Do you use any plastic products at all? Of course you do, so perhaps you are part of the problem. If we are fighting for oil in Iraq then they are fighting for you too. Why do you consider SUVs “bad”?

Oh, yes. Because this idiotic jesusfreak did anything but missed all the steps including all the reports prior to 9/11, now put up the diamond to his 'King of Retards" crown by finally leaving 50-100 thousand people on roofs and sport stadiums without water, wc and food for days? He took this nation to a completely rubbish war, essentially causing that while the National Guard, which is supposedly home-based force only, chasing barefeet arabs in the sand in Mesopotamia. their own states are drowning under water.
Thanks for the achievements.

You use the pejorative term “Jesus-freak”. Are you against Jesus or Christians?

There was no report that specifically stated there was a plot taking place on 9/11. The report you refer to simply states that Al-Queda wished to create such an incident. This was not very surprising since they had attacked us before.

50-100,000 people on rooftops? Wow I hadn’t heard about that either. You learn a lot on this forum. The people at fault in New Orleans are primarily the mayor and the Governor for their inaction. The situation there with the levies was known about for years and nothing was done.

You're ignorant again. US is way more oil-dependant than any other country including the same developed Europe or Japan. US is only 5% of the population yet consumes 1/3rd of the world oil consumption.

According to the CIA World Factbook the US consumes about 25 % of the world’s oil not 33 while our GDP is nearly 40 % of the entire world. That’s a pretty good ratio to me.

But getting back to another question you won’t answer-how did Bush (and only Bush) lie?

 

[mperdue]

T2K, you really have your head up your a$$. You list the Soviet achievements, then claim landing on the moon is insignificant compared to what the Soviets accomplished - and it was just "luck"??

The real hypocrisy is that he includes things like "First Animal in Space", "First Woman in Space", "First Woman to Walk in Space", "First 3 Man Crew" and considers them significant for the USSR while discounting sending people from different countries and other American records. Is sex really more significant than race, creed or national origin in space firsts? Is the 3 man threshold really more impressive than the larger crews carried by the Shuttle?

Also, don't forget that we were not just first to the moon, we're the only ones who have been there.

Mario

 

[Madtown HD Junkie]

T2K you a pinko-commie? Been gone for good part of yesterday but damn man you out there.

 

[vurbano]

Excuse me? Space research was always a subject in military programs and until the 1940s US wasn't considered as a leading military technologist.
Hitler's Germany was well-ahead of US in terms of industrial developments including rocket science etc - exactly up until a small group of respected scientists, recently immigrated from the same country where I'm from, first alarmed Einstein then FDR that Germans indeed working on nuclear fission-based weapons. That was the the catalyst which triggered the US interests and finally victory in the nuclear race, essentially countinuing in space research as weel - although Soviets were the first in the space.
BTW most of the Manhattan Project was European immigrant, thanks to Hitler's absolute lunatic system, as well as the non-existing feelings of US gov when it came to escaping well-know Nazis from war tribunals and diverting them to secret US development centers. US real rise as a world power was triggered by WWII, more precisly by Hitler and the following Communist expansion - which was, of course, well negotiated with the US beforehand, let me emphasize that. Without these wouldn't enjoy the fruits of that unbelievable brain-drian it had between 1930s and 1980s.

PS: to be clear, that's why I came here - because there's no other country where almost everybody is an immigrant (perhaps Australia but that's very far. ) Under the Clinton years I was thinking that US finally understood what should be its role, how could it maintain its leading role by workling together with the world, not lecturing it, especially after its own lack of experience, due to its very short history - but something went wrong in 200 and US is on a very-very wrong track ever since.

Comrade, if your communist systems are so much better than the US why did we beat you to the moon? Let me emphasize somthing. The US would have developed whatever innovations we needed if germany hadnt. But I have to agree on the Europeans being the experts on killing people. No wonder they hand a great hand in developing weapons of mass destruction. Given their history of murdering people it makes sense. Some system you have over there.

 

[CPanther95]

The years of complacency leading up to the new millenium are what fueled 9/11. Do you really think it all started in 2000 (actually 2001 by the time Bush actually took office)? The hatred of America and the planning of 9/11 was alive and well during those "Clinton years" where America "understood what should be its role" in the world community.

That's blind politics leading to ignorant conclusions.

 

[Michael-Berlin]

does anyone know how the 2nd world war has begone?

 

[CPanther95]

Began for us, you, or the rest of the world?

 

[Matt]

Comrade, if your communist systems are so much better than the US why did we beat you to the moon? Let me emphasize somthing. The US would have developed whatever innovations we needed if germany hadnt. But I have to agree on the Europeans being the experts on killing people. No wonder they hand a great hand in developing weapons of mass destruction. Given their history of murdering people it makes sense. Some system you have over there.

Very low blow vurbano - not by just calling somebody a comrade, just because he has a different opinion.
Reaching a goal is one thing - white washing Nazis - like Wernher von Braun and many others just to reach the goal is the other very dark side - not just doing it once but over and over again.

 

[Matt]

Began for us, you, or the rest of the world?

Well, since Michael asked, when WWII started - WWII stands for World War CPanther, in case you didn't know - it started Sept. 1939 and not as stated in 1941 as it is still taught in the USA.

 

[T2k]

T2K, you really have your head up your a$$. You list the Soviet achievements, then claim landing on the moon is insignificant compared to what the Soviets accomplished - and it was just "luck"??

If you don't understand something, ask, pal.

PS: is this some disease on the right? Everybody suffers from reading/interpretation problems?

You need some serious education. Or at least some common sense. It is your right to despise America - and it's our right to think you're an a-hole.

LOL. After your comments it's kinda funny to see you mentioning education, frankly...

 

[T2k]

More insults-what a surprise.

Is it you who think he fits into the mentioned category or...?

The people of the world are not necessarily interested in what is good for America so I am not that concerned about what they believe.

Hahahaha, this is good. Another funny comment - pal, nobody can live alone. Not even America, as the last 4-5 years perfectly showed us.

There have been several poor Presidential administrations in history. Carter, Clinton, Harding and Andrew Johnson to name a few.

Hahaha, this is funny too. Clinton as poor president? Financially, perhaps, compared to the stock-cheating, Hitler-friendly Bush family.
Domestic: excellent, security: excellent, foreign: good.
Correct me if I'm wrong but after the pathetic, catastrophic balance sheet he got from Bush Sr., he gave this current imbecile Bush a positive bottom line, a surplus, biggest ever in history - which this idiot burned within a year, thanks to his incompetency. (During his whole life he was always a retard, always saved by his rich family, so noothing new here).
Security: they did uncover few big terrorist plots in time, they did have a round table for all the agencies every week - idiotic necocons first step was to disorganise a well-working system, no wonder 9/11 found def ears
Foreign policy: under his tenure Palestines and Jews sat down, he successfully blocked the extreme fundiamentalist Muslim influence to gain power on the Blakan, bit late but intervened against Serbs, we were MUCH more liked all over the world - in fact not only in Europe but in Asia, Africa, even in the Middle-East CLinton was very popular and this is the real pain for the jesusfreaks, hehe

Let’s say for the sake of argument that Bush is the worst President in history.

Most likely, yes. Nixon was one of them but at least he ended Vietnam, though I'm pretty sure Kissinger will be tried and convinced for crimes against humanity, as a war criminal.

Do you really believe the country won’t survive it?

Of course it will. But at what price? He already raped our society, his arrogant, clueless, retarded, sick messianistic idiotism caused a lot of harm for us and I'm sure another 5-10 years will pass until we can restore the faith of the world.

Why isn’t he being impeached?

Impeached by who? Its own corrupt party? Or the other corrupt, impotent party? Don't be ridiculous.

More insults. And I am sorry, but America has been hated in the past and may be again.

This is BS. America, in the last 4-5 years, itself created the cause for hatred. And the most sisnister thing is this is what the neocons want because that sparks fear and fear will give them more and more power.
It's very old trick, though you, Americans are pretty young to know it, it's very well-known in older parts of the world.

We are in the middle of a war and war is understandably never a popular thing. You might stop to think that could be part of the reason.

We are in the middle of a war which we started against country which never attacked us, never declared to be at war with us, which, in fact, we supplied with weapons including chemicals, advisors, everything under Reagan and which we didn't have any diplomatic relationship since first Gulf War.

The other war or rather campaign, the Afghanistan one, where the real terrorists were right after 9/11, was greatly neglected, local warlords got millions in cache and did the military operations for us, finally totally missing our target, allowing OBL to pass the lines freely - this is the perfect example how Bush doesn't give a flying f**k about the country needs, much more about his cronies' commands.

You are correct-industry is not evil including oil.

Yes, only its leaders. Not essentially but unfortunately we have yet to see *ANY* oil company which will prefer or at least balance out the common good over its own profit. From not oil company you can find a few.

You don’t have a car-fine. Do you use any plastic products at all? Of course you do, so perhaps you are part of the problem. If we are fighting for oil in Iraq then they are fighting for you too. Why do you consider SUVs “bad”?

They are *NOT* fighting for ME. They are fighting for the *oil companies'* stable income for the next decade - that's NOT my interest.
SUV? Are you serious?

You use the pejorative term “Jesus-freak”. Are you against Jesus or Christians?

I'm against thes ridiculous, narrow minded Christo-fascists hypocrats like Pat Robertson and co. I *hate* these idiots, they have nothing to do with Christianity, these are some sinister warmongers on a constant atrocity campaign against everybody who doesn't share their extremely intolerant view.

They are exrteme extremists - we should handle them accordingly.

.
There was no report that specifically stated there was a plot taking place on 9/11.

Oh,stop this BS> There were *MANY* sign of what's going on, field offices were in panic mode already in August because they *knew* something will happen as early as September - and the administration didn't do sh*t.

The report you refer to simply states that Al-Queda wished to create such an incident. This was not very surprising since they had attacked us before.

BS. That's why a CIA cover company made millions on AA's stock operations on 9/11, huh? You're painfully unprepared for this debate,pal.
Read Richard Clarke's book, "Against All Enemies" and the 9/11 Comittee and few other sources and then we can have a talk.

50-100,000 people on rooftops? Wow I hadn’t heard about that either.

I learned by now you are not that bright, so let me break down this for you: 5 people would be too much already.

You learn a lot on this forum. The people at fault in New Orleans are primarily the mayor and the Governor for their inaction. The situation there with the levies was known about for years and nothing was done.

Suure. May I ask what the f**k the Lousiana NG is doing in Iraq, the Middle-East??? Or the Mississippi one?
So much for the mayor or the governor, let alone the former horse association president FEMA-chief, hired 2 years after 9/11 as emergency tzar.
Ridiculous. Another example of the incompentent, corrupt administration. Pfew.

According to the CIA World Factbook the US consumes about 25 % of the world’s oil not 33 while our GDP is nearly 40 % of the entire world. That’s a pretty good ratio to me.

Unfortunately it's the CIA, so it's hard to believe, especially when all the mainstream sources all over the world says 'rougly one-third'. Besides this it should be compared to the population, not to the GDP.

But getting back to another question you won’t answer-how did Bush (and only Bush) lie?

Auuuu... WMDs, Saddam-AlQ link, etc etc. The whole world is laughing at us that we kept this sick lying monkey in office.

 

[T2k]

The years of complacency leading up to the new millenium are what fueled 9/11. Do you really think it all started in 2000 (actually 2001 by the time Bush actually took office)? The hatred of America and the planning of 9/11 was alive and well during those "Clinton years" where America "understood what should be its role" in the world community.

That's blind politics leading to ignorant conclusions.

Ignorance is blessed on your side, pal. As I said, ask if you don't get something. I was talking about the fact that these incompetent neocon freaks were simply too stupid to look further than their long-awaited dream, the Iraqi intervention, that's wwhy they were stupid enough to break down everything Clinton has built in the nat'l security council. Arrogance, oversight, stupidity - these things caused that this administration was sleeping at the wheel when 9/11 was under way..

 

[T2k]

Began for us, you, or the rest of the world?

Haha, this is good. WWII started once, no matter how you're trying to exclude yourself from the world.

 

[T2k]

Very low blow vurbano - not by just calling somebody a comrade, just because he has a different opinion.
Reaching a goal is one thing - white washing Nazis - like Wernher von Braun and many others just to reach the goal is the other very dark side - not just doing it once but over and over again.

Excellent reply.