Voltage Issue

[HoytR]

I have a VIP 622 receiver in the bedroom which is plugged into a surge protector along with the tv. The surge protector is plugged into an outlet with no ground (old house).

With the coaxial cable connected to the reciever and everything plugged in, the outlet is showing the hot/neutral is reversed. (I checked the outlet and it is wired correctly) When I remove the coaxial cable from the reciever the outlet shows an open ground. With the coaxial cable connected but the reciever unplugged from the surge protector it shows hot/neutral reversed. I disconnected the coaxial cable and used a multimeter to check the cable to the reciever and one day it read 115 volts, and now today it is reading 58 volts. What is going on? I've had DVR issues with 2 different recievers now in the bedroom, the receiver in the living room has had no problems.

 

[SaltiDawg]

I have a VIP 622 receiver in the bedroom which is plugged into a surge protector along with the tv. The surge protector is plugged into an outlet with no ground (old house). ...

The typical surge protector must be grounded in order to function. Remove the surge protector and I suspect that your voltages will return to normal.

 

[NoBoB]

The typical surge protector must be grounded in order to function...

Indeed, but that doesn't explain the voltage on the coax.

HoytR, you might consider having an electrician check the house electrical system ground. Even in an old place with 2-wire outlets, the service entrance still must be grounded.

 

[TG2]

HoytR, you might consider having an electrician check the house electrical system ground. Even in an old place with 2-wire outlets, the service entrance still must be grounded.

I strongly second this.. as one day you might be working on a kitchen pendent light, and suddenly get a physical understanding of why you're getting hot/neutral readings with your meter/plug detector. mind you I didn't light up like a christmas tree, but my hand certainly remembered that feeling. ... you can ask me now and I can tell you I know what the sound ZZZZZZzzzzzzT feels like.

 

[SaltiDawg]

Indeed, but that doesn't explain the voltage on the coax. ...

"voltage on the coax"? The coax is grounded.

As I said in the second portion of my post, "Remove the surge protector and I suspect that your voltages will return to normal."

HoytR. If you take my suggestion and remove the MOV Surge Protector if you would be so kind, please let us know if the voltages do return to normal.

And finally, on a normal grounded outlet a tester indication of Hot/ground reverse is almost always a false indication for open neutral. In your case, I believe with your grounded coax connected to your receiver you are grounding your neutral st the receiver and thus essentially removing that path and thus the "open" indication. Again, HoytR let us know what happens when you remove the surge protector.

 

[HoytR]

I removed the suge protector and got the same results. I had the GFI tester in the top outlet and plugged the reciever into the bottom outlet, went from open ground to reversed. I plugged the tv in and it went from open ground to reversed. I removed the HDMI cable from the tv (from the receiver) and it went to open ground. Which would indicate something from the coaxial cable is travleing through the receiver & tv to the outlet.

The cable from the dish has a grounding clamp clamped onto the outside edge of the electrical panel on the outside of the house.

The outlets in the house are line & load style. I have checked the outlets before and after this one and they are showing open ground.

 

[KKlare]

Most two pin electrical outlets (1950s) have a central screw that is connected to the flexible shield around the black and white conducting wires. This can be used with an adapter to give you a grounded 3-prong outlet. The black (hot) wire goes to the narrower flat prong and the white (neutral) goes to the wider flat prong. Only after you have that set up should you try to interpret the hot-neutral-ground condition.

Ideally an electrician would rewire with 3-wire Romex and no conduit to each outlet. The amount of work depends on the access to a basement or attic.

You can use a cheap ($3) 3-prong polarity checker on replaced outlets. I finally did after a remodel 10 years ago and found that exactly 1/2 of the outlets were hot-neutral reversed. As I was replacing the plates and outlets to white from ivory, I got all those straightened out. I did notice the leakage on a Sony transformer-less TV connected to cable TV, from some outlets. Wide prongs do not help if they are on the wrong leg. The house was wrong for 25 years.

Be sure to especially include the outdoor outlets. BTW, you may see 1/2 voltage when you have other things connected which drain similar currents and you measure with a high-impedance meter.

Better luck, -Ken

 

[jimdandyvi]

With the fluctuations in voltage you are showing the problem could very well be the neutral wire which comes from the center pole tap at the transformer to your home has failed. If this happens the ground at the service panel, which is bonded to the neutral, is called upon to try and balance the amps on each leg of the 240 volt service coming into your home. For instance if you are pulling 25 amps on L1 and 20 amps on L2 the neutral should carry the difference (5 amps ) back to the transformer. If the neutral has failed then what happens is the wattage balances by varying the voltage. The voltage on the 25 amp load leg in theory would drop to 108 and on the 20 amp load the voltage would increase to 135. The ground would reduce the voltage swings but not eliminate it. Earth isn't as good a conductor as a metal neutral so the voltage on each legs fluctuates when the amps demanded on each leg are unequal.

Check the neutral at the panel to confirm there is continuity back to the transformer. I had to replace my neutral because the contractor who originally installed the electrical service used a bare aluminum neutral in an underground installation.

Jim

 

[HoytR]

I think I've done as much as I can to trouble shoot this. Today I found out more info but as I'm not that familiar with electrical I don't know what it exactly means.

I have two receivers- one in the bedroom and one in the living room. They are both on two seperate circuits. In the bedroom the outlet for the receiver is the first outlet on that circuit so I isolated it from the rest of the outlets in the line.

I disconnected all the cables from the GB, including the grounding line. I checked against the ground and the cable for both the living room reciever and bedroom reciever and they showed 0 volts while the receivers were unplugged. But when I plug the receivers in each of their cable to the ground shows 50 volts. Then I did a comparasion for the living room outlet and bedroom outlet with the receiver plugged in directly to the outlet and the ground and cables put back onto the GB.

-----------Living Room Outlet--------------------Bedroom Outlet
--------Plugged In-----Unplugged-----------Plugged In-----Unplugged

H-N-----120.5V -----120.5V-----------------120.5V---------120.5V
H-G-----120.6V--------1.8V-------------------0V-------------0V
N-G-------0V----------0V------------------120.5V------------0V

outlet---Normal-------Open ground----Hot/Neutral Reversed---Open Ground
tester

When I use an extension cord to plug the receivers into a grounded outlet the voltage on the cable goes away. The grounded outlets are grounded to the receptacle box. The receptacle boxes for the receivers are plastic or else I would just go ahead and ground them.

 

[whatchel1]

Better get some rewiring done.