VIP722k 1080p upconversion possible?

[Jhon69]

I have not been HD capable for very long,but tonight a question came across my mind.Now I know that 1080p on the HD channels is probably not possible because of the increase it would put on the bandwith on the satellites.But I also know the 722k can upconvert the satellite signal or OTA signal to 1080i.

So my questions to the Pros are as follows:

Could the 722k upconvert the signals to 1080p with a software update?,or does the chipsets in it restrict it to just 1080i?.

It would seem to me the HD channel upconversion process would be the answer to higher quality resolutions with out the bandwith complications that would come up concerning the transmissions of an 1080p HD picture coming from the satellites.So what do you think?.Thanks for all replies.

 

[MikeD-C05]

If you buy a google revue unit for $99.00 , it will upconvert all dish programming to 1080p and you can watch Netflix and other applications with it. It is basically like having a computer browser and your sat receiver is feed into it using hdmi in and hdmi out to your tv. This is the only way I have found to get 1080p upconversion at this time.

 

[Laddyboy]

Just a quick hit. If you have a 1080p TV, that is its native resolution and everything is scaled to 1080p by it, whether the input is 720p or 1080i or anything else. 1080i is perfectly scalable to 1080p. The same info is contained in the two 1080i fields as is contained in the 1080p frame. The Dish receiver takes whatever input it receives and scales to whatever the output is set, usually 720p or 1080i for HD. Upconversion just fills in missing pixels by looking at neighborhood pixels and filling in the blanks via algorithm. In this situation, it just depends on which device has the better algorithms. It's not as good as having the pixel info in the first place. Broadcasters limit bandwidth by adjusting bit rate, pixels per time unit. Thus a lower bit rate will mean more missing pixels and a lessened picture quality. They also sometimes drop the resolution to 1440 x 1080 or lower from 1920 x 1080.

 

[Jhon69]

If you buy a google revue unit for $99.00 , it will upconvert all dish programming to 1080p and you can watch Netflix and other applications with it. It is basically like having a computer browser and your sat receiver is feed into it using hdmi in and hdmi out to your tv. This is the only way I have found to get 1080p upconversion at this time.

Thanks MikeD,that's good to know.So far I have found out my Insignia Bluray player upconverts my regular DVDs to 1080p,with the difference being it's 1080p60,while Bluray on my 1080p HDTV shows 1080p24.Which I was happy to find out so I won't have to replace every DVD I have with Bluray.


That's how the question of why can't my 722k upconvert the satellite signal just like my Bluray player can to at least 1080p60? became a question I decided to ask why not?.

 

[yaz96]

Thanks MikeD,that's good to know.So far I have found out my Insignia Bluray player upconverts my regular DVDs to 1080p,with the difference being it's 1080p60,while Bluray on my 1080p HDTV shows 1080p24.Which I was happy to find out so I won't have to replace every DVD I have with Bluray.

I hope you understand that upconverting a DVD to 1080p, is still not close to BluRay quality.

 

[Jhon69]

I hope you understand that upconverting a DVD to 1080p, is still not close to BluRay quality.

Oh Yea that's why I stated the regular DVDs only upconverts to 1080p60,while the Bluray is 1080p24 which makes quite a big difference in the picture you can see,plus the audio is better also on Bluray.


I do plan to replace the regular DVDs we watch the most(and I have like "Twister") to Bluray(when the price is right),now that movie not only looks,but sounds alot more like my house is coming off the foundation!.

 

[harshness]

I challenge you to distinguish between 1080i and 1080p.

Both are possible on the ViP722 but you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference without instrumentation.

 

[John Kotches]

Just a quick hit. If you have a 1080p TV, that is its native resolution and everything is scaled to 1080p by it, whether the input is 720p or 1080i or anything else. 1080i is perfectly scalable to 1080p. The same info is contained in the two 1080i fields as is contained in the 1080p frame.

This is only true if the content is native progressive, ie film-based (or digital equivalent) content. For something like live sports on CBS, you get 1920x540 fields every 1/60th of a second. Sports is moving so if you know what to look for it can be noticable. If the camera capaturing the event live is 1080p and spits out the 1920x1080 frame as two 1920x540 fields this would hold true.

 

[John Kotches]

Oh Yea that's why I stated the regular DVDs only upconverts to 1080p60,while the Bluray is 1080p24 which makes quite a big difference in the picture you can see,plus the audio is better also on Bluray.

The framerate is only a small part of the PQ improvement with bluray. And there are external scalers (and maybe one or two expensive DVD players) that can do the inverse telecine and output 1080p24 scaled DVD.

The bigger gain by far is the increase in resolution. Most people don't know what motion judder looks like (an artifact of 24 --> 60 conversion).


I do plan to replace the regular DVDs we watch the most(and I have like "Twister") to Bluray(when the price is right),now that movie not only looks,but sounds alot more like my house is coming off the foundation!.[/QUOTE]

 

[Jhon69]

I challenge you to distinguish between 1080i and 1080p.

Both are possible on the ViP722 but you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference without instrumentation.

On my 55" screen I can see the difference and it's quite noticeable.The colors in the picture in 1080p are a deeper color,the faces and objects even more defined.I can tell the differences quite easily.Even more easily with POP or side by side picture out of picture when I select that feature on my HDTV.But that should be the right way it should be as when the picture is interlaced you only see half the picture,where progressive is the full picture when viewed.

On a smaller screen it would be less noticeable.

 

[BBruin66]

An upconverted 1080i to 1080p would be useless. The reason they don't send 1080p is because it's basically twice thus frames per second Hz, thus the bandwidth would need to double. We all know Sat providers are limited to this as is so this will be the last thing we see broadcast. (unless they compress the image quality down even further)

720p is allowed because a 1280x720 signal at 60Hz vs 1920x1080 signal at 30Hz is relatively equal as far as bandwidth goes.

I prefer 1080i any day, especially sports!!!

 

[BBruin66]

On my 55" screen I can see the difference and it's quite noticeable.The colors in the picture in 1080p are a deeper color,the faces and objects even more defined.I can tell the differences quite easily.Even more easily with POP or side by side picture out of picture when I select that feature on my HDTV.But that should be the right way it should be as when the picture is interlaced you only see half the picture,where progressive is the full picture when viewed.

On a smaller screen it would be less noticeable.

What are your sources? You can't compare TV 1080i to BLU-Ray, because they TV signals are compressed and altered.

 

[Jhon69]

An upconverted 1080i to 1080p would be useless. The reason they don't send 1080p is because it's basically twice thus frames per second Hz, thus the bandwidth would need to double. We all know Sat providers are limited to this as is so this will be the last thing we see broadcast. (unless they compress the image quality down even further)

720p is allowed because a 1280x720 signal at 60Hz vs 1920x1080 signal at 30Hz is relatively equal as far as bandwidth goes.

I prefer 1080i any day, especially sports!!!

That is correct.That's why my question basically was does the 722k have the ability to upconvert the picture inside the HDDVR like the Bluray players can?.

 

[Jhon69]

What are your sources? You can't compare TV 1080i to BLU-Ray, because they TV signals are compressed and altered.

I have a 722k/wMT2 connected to my Vizio 55" 1080p LED/LCD HDTV with HDMI,also a Insignia Bluray player also connected up with HDMI.The HDTV tells me in Info what the picture is I am watching.

 

[whatchel1]

I have a 722k/wMT2 connected to my Vizio 55" 1080p LED/LCD HDTV with HDMI,also a Insignia Bluray player also connected up with HDMI.The HDTV tells me in Info what the picture is I am watching.

Apples & oranges. It's not the fact that it is 1080p vs 1080i that is only thing making a difference here. The 1080p from a Blu-Ray has about 3 times the bit rate than the sat signal has. There is just not enough bandwidth via sat to use those type of bit rates. Until they come up with a much better compression scheme they will be limited. Right now MPEG 4 is the top dog but they will need to be running a new standard that hasn't even been approved yet and no company even produces the equipment to do it yet. MPEG is working on this but it isn't going to be out for a good while.

 

[joegr]

What are your sources? You can't compare TV 1080i to BLU-Ray, because they TV signals are compressed and altered.

Bluray is compressed too, just not as much.

 

[Jhon69]

Apples & oranges. It's not the fact that it is 1080p vs 1080i that is only thing making a difference here. The 1080p from a Blu-Ray has about 3 times the bit rate than the sat signal has. There is just not enough bandwidth via sat to use those type of bit rates. Until they come up with a much better compression scheme they will be limited. Right now MPEG 4 is the top dog but they will need to be running a new standard that hasn't even been approved yet and no company even produces the equipment to do it yet. MPEG is working on this but it isn't going to be out for a good while.

Yea I thought because ABC/Fox and ESPN was 720p and the 722k could upconvert those to 1080i,then an upconversion to 1080p60 would not seem to be so hard to achieve.But I guess it would be.

 

[DishSubLA]

Bluray is compressed too, just not as much.

Compressed: True.

However BD is compressed even more, than digital OTA, but the H.264 (MPEG4/AVC) codec used for most Blu-ray allow for higher compression, but with higher (very good to excellent) PQ results compared with legacy MPEG2 codec used by broadcasters that can result in worse PQ even with less compression.

 

[harshness]

For something like live sports on CBS, you get 1920x540 fields every 1/60th of a second. Sports is moving so if you know what to look for it can be noticable.

You jumped the rails here. CBS is often considered the best PQ in HD sports yet you insist that it cannot be true and the PQ suffering is "noticeable".

 

[Hall]

I hope you understand that upconverting a DVD to 1080p, is still not close to BluRay quality.

Depends on the viewer !