Resurrecting a DishTV system with VIP722k - diagnostics?

[kbuhagiar]

Hello Folks,

I am laid up at home with a broken foot so I have a lot of time on my hands.
I mentioned in a previous thread that I am trying to ID the wiring mess that I inherited with this house. After much research and toning/tagging/testing I have ID'd and labeled most of the cable drops throughout the house. I am also 99% sure that I have identified the two leads that go to the dish on the roof (found the disconnect/test point in a junction box outside, adjacent to the phone MPOE). I now have the dish leads connected directly to the722k (one on each satellite input).

Keep in mind that although I'm a technically oriented and know my way around wiring (retired from 32 years PBX/IT maintenence), this is my first foray into the world of satellite TV. Based on my detective work, and interpretation of the diagnostics/readings that were saved in the 722k, the service at this location was active until 4/21 (three months before we moved in). I've spent a bit of time digging into the menus on the 722 and there appear to be some testing routines to assist with signal optimization (point dish, diagnostics, etc) embedded in the software. Is there any way I can utilize any of these onboard tools to determine if (a) the dish is connected and operational (b) even just connected to the LNB? Right now all I get is the Complete Signal Loss error message (31-12-45), just like the one I get when there's snow covering our dish at our vacation home (we subscribe to DishTV up there, but it's all Hopper and Joey over there).

Not sure if this is relevant, but my DishTV dish has three 'eyes', and I've learned that it is part of the Western Arc, and I should be connecting to satellites 119, 110 and 129.

I normally wouldn't expend this kind of effort for a defunct old system, but like I said I have time on my hands and I am enjoying learning the basics of Satellite TV operation.

Thanks in advance for all assistance and support!

 

[tjboston5676]

Press menu then 6-1-1 and you'll land on the check switch page. Run the check switch. If it does 1 of 4 then it's connected to dish and getting signal. If it does 1 of 38 then it's either not connected to dish, or it could be connected just not receiving signal meaning dish is out of alignment.
Considering you're seeing complete signal loss message, I'd assume it's going to go the 1 of 38 route.

 

[kbuhagiar]

Press menu then 6-1-1 and you'll land on the check switch page. Run the check switch. If it does 1 of 4 then it's connected to dish and getting signal. If it does 1 of 38 then it's either not connected to dish, or it could be connected just not receiving signal meaning dish is out of alignment.
Considering you're seeing complete signal loss message, I'd assume it's going to go the 1 of 38 route.

Thanks for that, every little bit helps!

Assuming that it will do the 1 of 38, then the next step will have to wait until I can climb the roof.
Would the circuitry of the LNB show a high-resistance loop or ground across the center conductor and shield of the cable? I'm looking for something that would at least indicate that the cable was in fact connected to something...

Follow up question... how much does the dish have to move to completely lose the signal?
Looking back we did have some roof repair work done right after we moved in. I'm wondering if one of the workers may have disturbed it, or perhaps damaged the cable.

Thanks again.

 

[TheKrell]

Looking back we did have some roof repair work done right after we moved in. I'm wondering if one of the workers may have disturbed it, or perhaps damaged the cable.

Yes indeed. Roofers can't align a dish accurately enough to aim at the satellites, even if they do screw the mast into the same holes which is doubtful. But for DPP gear, even if the satellites cannot be seen, your 722 should still see the LNBs. If it goes through the 1-of-38 test, then the cable is not connected to the LNB.

 

[tjboston5676]

Just a quarter inch (probably even an eight) is enough to lose signal completely. The satellites are 23k miles away. So a quarter inch down here translates to many miles in space.

 

[Jim5506]

Just a quarter inch (probably even an eight) is enough to lose signal completely. The satellites are 23k miles away. So a quarter inch down here translates to many miles in space.

But what actually makes a difference is the reflection of the signal off the dish to the lnb which is sensitive but not that sensitive. 1/8 inch at the base of the dish may make 1 inch difference where the signal misses the lnb, probably less than that.

The actual alignment is between the reflection off the dish and the lnb.

 

[tjboston5676]

But what actually makes a difference is the reflection of the signal off the dish to the lnb which is sensitive but not that sensitive. 1/8 inch at the base of the dish may make 1 inch difference where the signal misses the lnb, probably less than that.

The actual alignment is between the reflection off the dish and the lnb.

Sure what you said is correct. But assuming a non damaged dish when referring to alignment, means the entire dish not the lnb to reflector relationship. So whether it's a 1/4" at the base or it swiveled on the mount (azimuth) or had elevation changed up or down it's all the same and enough to stop receiving signal.

 

[kbuhagiar]

UPDATE:

Thanks to all who have responded to my thread. I really appreciate all of the information and suggestions.

I made some progress...pulled out my binoculars and was able to see that my dish is a ProPlus 1000.2 (Western arc, 110, 119, 129), with a single white RG6U lead going from the dish to...? That part is still unknown. I still have a few unidentified cables hanging in the breeze in the equipment closet, my next step will be to see if any of them are my missing dish lead.

I was able to borrow a spare 1000.2 LNB for testing purposes, so I connected it directly to my 722k and now I know what I should see on a cable connected to an active LNB (i.e. the '1-of-4 test routine, plus the '1K2' in the Check Switch dialogue).

I suppose I could just wait a few weeks until I was cleared for ladder duty, climb up on the roof and throw some tone on the cable...but this has been a great learning opportunity for me, it's cool finally gleaning some knowledge about how satellite TV works.

 

[That American Girl]

I now have the dish leads connected directly to the722k (one on each satellite input).

You're not using the 'splitter' on the single coax coming out of the wall? Or do you mean you have 2 separate coax coming in directly from the dish, going straight into the 722k?

For some reason my brain is having issues visualizing this, but I think that's wrong perhaps?

 

[kbuhagiar]

You're not using the 'splitter' on the single coax coming out of the wall? Or do you mean you have 2 separate coax coming in directly from the dish, going straight into the 722k?

For some reason my brain is having issues visualizing this, but I think that's wrong perhaps?

Hello TAG,

I had previously found two BLACK leads that I thought were going to the dish, but they are not (or if they are they are open somewhere between the garage test point and the dish). Testing each lead separately with two different receivers (my 722k and a borrowed 211z), running CheckSwitch reverts to '1 of 38' test and subsequently shows 'None' for equipment (LNB). Also, as I mentioned in my last post, by using a pair of binoculars from ground level (I am restricted from ladder duty with a broken foot) I was able to identify a single WHITE lead (not two, and not black) on the roof coming out of the dish/LNB. Of course, I realize that somewhere in between the roof and the garage test point there may be another splice - black to white - but I find that unlikely. But hey, anything's possible! The other possibility is that the Dish lead was run directly into the equipment closet, but isn't that kind of frowned upon? In any case I will go ahead and check the remaining unidentified leads in the closet.

 

[primestar31]

Hello TAG,

I had previously found two BLACK leads that I thought were going to the dish, but they are not (or if they are they are open somewhere between the garage test point and the dish). Testing each lead separately with two different receivers (my 722k and a borrowed 211z), running CheckSwitch reverts to '1 of 38' test and subsequently shows 'None' for equipment (LNB). Also, as I mentioned in my last post, by using a pair of binoculars from ground level (I am restricted from ladder duty with a broken foot) I was able to identify a single WHITE lead (not two, and not black) on the roof coming out of the dish/LNB. Of course, I realize that somewhere in between the roof and the garage test point there may be another splice - black to white - but I find that unlikely. But hey, anything's possible! The other possibility is that the Dish lead was run directly into the equipment closet, but isn't that kind of frowned upon? In any case I will go ahead and check the remaining unidentified leads in the closet.

So, don't you have any local teenagers that would like $20 CASH to trace back the wire from the dish? Don't pay them before it's done. They could take pics with a cellphone if needed.

Sure would be safer and faster than waiting for the possibility of YOU going on the roof with a damaged foot barely recovered. I myself am recovering from 3 months out from drastic foot tendon surgery. Though I'm now not having to wear a boot, or use a knee scooter or crutches, I'm still FAR away from going up and actual ladder, and being safe...

 

[sam_gordon]

Will Dish activate a 722 now? Could OP be going through all this work and still not be able to utilize a 722?

 

[kbuhagiar]

So, don't you have any local teenagers that would like $20 CASH to trace back the wire from the dish? Don't pay them before it's done. They could take pics with a cellphone if needed.

Sure would be safer and faster than waiting for the possibility of YOU going on the roof with a damaged foot barely recovered. I myself am recovering from 3 months out from drastic foot tendon surgery. Though I'm now not having to wear a boot, or use a knee scooter or crutches, I'm still FAR away from going up and actual ladder, and being safe...

Well, it's not a service-affecting issue (since I am not an active Dish subscriber) and it really isn't a priority. This whole adventure has been a way to get something accomplished (i.e. testing and labeling all of the wires in my AV equipment closet), and keep my brain active and learn something (satellite TV fundamentals) while recuperating. If it was that important I'd have my brother over here in an hour up the ladder and running the tests for me. I'm still in a cast and will be for another ten days, at which point I will be placed in a boot for another few weeks. During that time I will not do anything to jeopardize the full and complete recovery of my fractured calcaneus (heel). But in the meantime I'm doing something besides spending untold hours in front of a TV.

 

[kbuhagiar]

Will Dish activate a 722 now? Could OP be going through all this work and still not be able to utilize a 722?

Sam,
I'm using the 722 mostly as a testing device, plus it was the receiver that was here when I moved in. I have DishTV at my other residence (Hopper and a Joey), and that's what I'd probably want if I decide to subscribe here.

 

[AkaDoubleG]

Will Dish activate a 722 now? Could OP be going through all this work and still not be able to utilize a 722?

I got a 722K activated a few months ago. I made sure it was clear and not leased. I am a longtime subscriber though if that had anything to do with it.