UPDATE! 12-21-05 Dish Transmitting CBS-E HD in 1440x1080i
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From what I gather 38 Mbps is what you got for Video, so thats under 13 Mbps each, unless:
The only way 3 to a transponder can be done is mixing movie channels with Telecine flags, HD Video channels need 14 minimum(thats what Discovery gets on 110, most of the time less)
the 3 HD per transponder results in 1 Movie channel having around 11 Mbps video(like Showtime/HBO on 110, which both share their respective transponder's with 2 other HD)
many many times movies on HBO/Showtime from 110 will average less than 10 Mbps video, which is really a shame, but is the result of 3 per tp.
Dish could scrap by with 5 transponders from Voom with 1 movie channel(their are 5 total) on each Tp. at around 11 Mbps ea.
this is not ideal though, as those 110 HD channels are suffering at 3 per Tp.
-Gary
The only way 3 to a transponder can be done is mixing movie channels with Telecine flags, HD Video channels need 14 minimum(thats what Discovery gets on 110, most of the time less)
the 3 HD per transponder results in 1 Movie channel having around 11 Mbps video(like Showtime/HBO on 110, which both share their respective transponder's with 2 other HD)
many many times movies on HBO/Showtime from 110 will average less than 10 Mbps video, which is really a shame, but is the result of 3 per tp.
Dish could scrap by with 5 transponders from Voom with 1 movie channel(their are 5 total) on each Tp. at around 11 Mbps ea.
this is not ideal though, as those 110 HD channels are suffering at 3 per Tp.
-Gary
How about mixing MPEG4 and MPEG2 on the same transponder: Two MPEG2; one MPEG4. Seems like then there would be enough room to make it work in HD--even without MPEG4 being very efficient.Gary Murrell said:
I think we just got our answer on CBS from 61.5, here is a portion of a email I received in contact with Dish about this problem:
Thank you for expressing your concerns and interest in the DISH Network. Customer input is an important tool in our efforts to continuously improve the quality of the DISH Network service.
DISH Network strives to offer the best quality of high definition programming that meets industry and television standards while maximizing DISH Network’s HD offering to consumers nationwide
1280x720p is a standard and I think that is what Dish is saying
I think now that I was incorrect in saying that 720p on this channel was a mistake by Dish
If this is the plan for NBC/CBS national HD's then you no where these channels can be stuck, right in someones ASS!!!
-Gary
Thank you for expressing your concerns and interest in the DISH Network. Customer input is an important tool in our efforts to continuously improve the quality of the DISH Network service.
DISH Network strives to offer the best quality of high definition programming that meets industry and television standards while maximizing DISH Network’s HD offering to consumers nationwide
1280x720p is a standard and I think that is what Dish is saying
I think now that I was incorrect in saying that 720p on this channel was a mistake by Dish
If this is the plan for NBC/CBS national HD's then you no where these channels can be stuck, right in someones ASS!!!
-Gary
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Its hard to know whats going on inside their boardrooms, but I really question their layout with regard to the locals. CBS+ABC+NBC on one TP with FOX by itself makes no sense at all. Oh well, looks like we're gonna have to grill them at CES.
Well I guess that all HDs at 1280x720p is still better than 1280x1080i IMO. If thats what we will have to swallow so be it. Not that I am happy about it but in all reality it is better than 1280x1080i.
hi-def vs the bottom line
No one knows yet what bandwidth (in any format) a hi def picture would require in mpeg4.
But it's gotta be less, for a good picture, than the current mpeg2.
I had a long chat with an old buddy the other night.
He's a recently retired engineer from KTLA ch 5 in Los Angeles (and before that, KNBC ch 4 LA).
From the tests he'd run and the demonstrations he'd seen, he thinks the boardroom guys have been sold on 720 being just as good, and at a great savings in bandwidth.
He was actually of that persuasion, and he is one picky SOB when it comes to artifacts in his video!
So, regardless of what you all think, it's possible that the boardrooms of industry have decided to distribute all these damned hi-def locals in 720.
It's probably what you'll see more of from everybody.
Frankly, it's a damned shame you can't have network feed in full def to everyone, and screw the local stations!
Question: Why do we need 30+ cities with their own copy of CSI up on the satellite fleet?
Answer: Politics.
Who benefits? Cable. Not satellite.
Certainly not in the viewer's best interest.
So, the moral of the story is this... find the lobbyists for cable, and string them up.
If not, learn to live with 720, and be happy ya got that and not 480!
Ya gotta think that's what is planned for in the future...after the new bird is up and on line.rdinkel said:
No one knows yet what bandwidth (in any format) a hi def picture would require in mpeg4.
But it's gotta be less, for a good picture, than the current mpeg2.
I had a long chat with an old buddy the other night.
He's a recently retired engineer from KTLA ch 5 in Los Angeles (and before that, KNBC ch 4 LA).
From the tests he'd run and the demonstrations he'd seen, he thinks the boardroom guys have been sold on 720 being just as good, and at a great savings in bandwidth.
He was actually of that persuasion, and he is one picky SOB when it comes to artifacts in his video!
So, regardless of what you all think, it's possible that the boardrooms of industry have decided to distribute all these damned hi-def locals in 720.
It's probably what you'll see more of from everybody.
Frankly, it's a damned shame you can't have network feed in full def to everyone, and screw the local stations!
Question: Why do we need 30+ cities with their own copy of CSI up on the satellite fleet?
Answer: Politics.
Who benefits? Cable. Not satellite.
Certainly not in the viewer's best interest.
So, the moral of the story is this... find the lobbyists for cable, and string them up.
If not, learn to live with 720, and be happy ya got that and not 480!
I would much rather have 1920x1080i downrezzed to 1280x1080i than a 1920x1080i downrezzed to 1280x720p image.
If this is what happens to VOOM, then I will have to write back to Dish to beg for the return of 1280x1080i.
If this is what happens to VOOM, then I will have to write back to Dish to beg for the return of 1280x1080i.
Since I have a 720p DLP set, 720 sounds good to me. Especially if Dish adds national HD networks from LA. :devil:
bestboff said:
Dude 1080i converted to 720p is not pretty, I have seen it done much better(Bell ExpressVu) but this current state of CBS in 720p looks God Awful
HD-Lite and conversions can be spotted when viewing HD downconverted to 480i on a 20" SD display
my 6000 I use for recording and reading is connected to such a TV in my PC room, HD-Lite is easy to spot on even such a lowly TV and 480i composite video connection
-Gary
bestboff said:
I think DISH is banking on everyone buying less than true HD TV's. It's not the road I would not see DISH going....
Gary Murrell said:Dude 1080i converted to 720p is not pretty, I have seen it done much better(Bell ExpressVu) but this current state of CBS in 720p looks God Awful
HD-Lite and conversions can be spotted when viewing HD downconverted to 480i on a 20" SD display
my 6000 I use for recording and reading is connected to such a TV in my PC room, HD-Lite is easy to spot on even such a lowly TV and 480i composite video connection
-Gary
As mentioned here and other sites, some have seen "flashing" and ghosting on the new and "unimproved" cbs-e hd. I can only bet this is from the 1080i -> 720p conversion.
It will be interesting to see what happens if CBS shows a program with telecine flags and how that will be handled. Once again a reason to LEAVE IT ALONE at its native resolution.
Well this sucks seeing as I have 2 1080 TVs. A 1080i rear projection CRT and a newer 1080p DLP set and went with Dish because of their HD PQ.
gdarwin said:
720p is true HD at 1280 x 720 like 1080i is true HD at 1920 x 1080. If Voom is sent from Rainbow as 720p like Disney does with ABC, ESPN and ESPN2, then the results may be fine. The Lion King which looked absolutely stunning was 720p on ABC. Changes from the "ground up" may mean this.
However, the side-conversion from 1080i to 720p has been reported as poor. This is troubling. I have a 720p DLP. If defects are seen on a 1080i set, I am sure they will be seen on a 720p set.
If Monsters was duplicated or shifted to MPEG4 True 1080i at a full bitrate (which could be as much as half as that needed for MPEG2), then I will be getting a vip211. I hope we have members who can detect this for MPEG4. With the lack of communication explaining the current Voom HD Lite problem, I am hesitant in getting a vip211 on faith.
I would be more than happy to give Dish money for an excellent HD package that boasts True HD quality as a selling point. Since Dish picked up Voom, I have been subbing to Dish on faith - which is not, in this case, unending.
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