TIVO vs E*

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1) TiVo's treble and attorney fees request denied;

The jury did find wilful infringement. The only reason they didn't get treble damanges was some evidence not presented to the jury that may have allowed them to reconsider wilfulness.

But that was in 2006. I thought you were trying to show things that DISH has won recently?

2) TiVo's argument not to stay the injunction on appeal denied;

Expected. Hardly a victory.

3) No infringement on the hardware claims;

A flat-out lie. The hardware claims were remanded, and are still there for TiVo to follow up on. The only reason they remanded the claims was the jury was told that it was not necessary to find infringement by doctrine of equivalents if they found literal infringement. They would have certainly found both if instructed to do so. It's just a formality to get the hardware claims in the picture again.

4) TiVo's request for infringement analysis on 5/30/08 denied as urged by E*;

Wow, only three points into it, and you're getting into this minutia? And you consider this a victory? :LOL:

5) Violation on the face without looking at the design around is against the law;

Another lie. KSM allows newly-manufactured devices to escape prima facie contempt, but not already-manufactured, already-adjudicated devices. Please stop lying.

6) Colorable difference issue must first be looked at;

I have no idea why you put these (5 & 6) as separate points. They are the same thing.


7) The E* DE case is a solid case, not "forum shopping" as TiVo argued;

Let me see if I have this right. DISH tried to move the case to DE (if contempt is not found) and Judge Farnam in Delaware said that is better handled in TX. In other words, they accomplished nothing. In fact, you could argue that had they waited to file until after a decision from Folsom regarding contempt, they might have had a shot at the venue changed.

So not only did they NOT win this (the case goes back to TX), they actually did damage to their case (the case will stay in TX regardless of the contempt decision).

8) There is "substantial new question" regarding the validity of the two TiVo's software claims...

No, there's not. If you keep lying about it, it doesn't make it true.

What has TiVo proven?

What hasn't TiVo proven?

The completely outclassed circus clown legal team has had their gonads handed to them repeatedly in this case. Seriously, not only have they hurt DISH, they've probably hurt the reputation of the entire law firm with their inability to win anything in this case.

Oh, wait, there was one thing. They got an extra 2.5 hours in front of the judge last month. LOL.
 
Let's see. Cable deals in place. Directv deal in place. Soon a deal with cheap Charlie.

I think TiVo will be around for a very long time.

Doesn't appear that the MSO deals are doing much good.
(x1000)
Date - TiVo - MSO - Addtions
Jul-06 1.572 2.846 4.418 1
Oct-06 1.625 2.809 4.434 16
Jan-07 1.726 2.718 4.444 10
Apr-07 1.727 2.615 4.342 -102
Jul-07 1.708 2.489 4.197 -145
Oct-07 1.712 2.355 4.067 -130
Jan-08 1.745 2.201 3.946 -121
Apr-08 1.728 2.073 3.801 -145
Jul-08 1.686 1.937 3.623 -178
Oct-08 1.658 1.802 3.460 -163
Jan-09 1.654 1.681 3.335 -125
 
The jury did find wilful infringement. The only reason they didn't get treble damanges was some evidence not presented to the jury that may have allowed them to reconsider wilfulness.

But that was in 2006. I thought you were trying to show things that DISH has won recently?

Not true, the most important reason was the judge said this was not a "copying" case, because E* developed DVRs "many years before TiVo even existed as a company."

Why not 2006? Only the TiVo folks may brag about a 2006 win?

Expected. Hardly a victory.

They did win that one, hard or easy.

A flat-out lie. The hardware claims were remanded, and are still there for TiVo to follow up on. The only reason they remanded the claims was the jury was told that it was not necessary to find infringement by doctrine of equivalents if they found literal infringement. They would have certainly found both if instructed to do so. It's just a formality to get the hardware claims in the picture again.

No, stop calling a lie until you undstand what the appeals court did, they reversed the hardware verdict, so the hardware claims, as we speak, are not infringed. You can wish for any future "hypothetical" scenario all you want, TiVo is not re-visiting the hardware claims and will not do so, why?

Because Judge Folsom when ordering his "bench trial" did decide to revisit the hardware claims at first, but TiVo said no, let's not do that. Once TiVo decided not to go after the hardware claims, against the judge's own wish, it will be near impossible to go back to it.

Another lie. KSM allows newly-manufactured devices to escape prima facie contempt, but not already-manufactured, already-adjudicated devices. Please stop lying.

Again, you continue to use the "on the face" argument, just remember, the DE judge had refuted that idea of TiVo's, by dismissing TiVo. TiVo was using the same "on the face" argument in front of the DE judge.

I value the DE judge's opinion more so than TiVo's.

I have no idea why you put these (5 & 6) as separate points. They are the same thing.

Except Judge Folsom considers them two things, one is a colorable difference issue, the other is an infringement issue, I'd rather value Judge Folsom's opinion.

Let me see if I have this right. DISH tried to move the case to DE (if contempt is not found) and Judge Farnam in Delaware said that is better handled in TX. In other words, they accomplished nothing. In fact, you could argue that had they waited to file until after a decision from Folsom regarding contempt, they might have had a shot at the venue changed.

E* never tried to move anything, when one is the first-to-file, one is the first-to-file. TiVo is now trying to move it to the TX court, after the DE judge dismissed TiVo's motion.

So not only did they NOT win this (the case goes back to TX), they actually did damage to their case (the case will stay in TX regardless of the contempt decision).

You keep saying this, let me say it again, this case is still in the DE court. Stop saying it is now in the TX court when it is not.

One more thing, I know it is hard to get this through, if there is a contempt, this new DE case will be moot or dismissed.

No, there's not. If you keep lying about it, it doesn't make it true.

Then you are calling the USPTO lying, because I was only quoting them. The USPTO said there is now "substential new question" regarding the validity of the sofware claims.

What hasn't TiVo proven?

That was not the question Curtis asked.

The completely outclassed circus clown legal team has had their gonads handed to them repeatedly in this case. Seriously, not only have they hurt DISH, they've probably hurt the reputation of the entire law firm with their inability to win anything in this case.

Please stop feeling bad for Charlie and his lawyers, feel bad for TiVo and their lawyers, after over a year, they could not get such a "no-brainer" contempt out of the judge no matter how they tried.

Oh, wait, there was one thing. They got an extra 2.5 hours in front of the judge last month. LOL.

Yes I missed that one. TiVo argued the good faith, bad faith issue was irrelevant, so no more time should be given. Regardless how you feel, Judge Folsom did give more time, because good faith issue was relevant.
 
Doesn't appear that the MSO deals are doing much good.
(x1000)
Date - TiVo - MSO - Addtions
Jul-06 1.572 2.846 4.418 1
Oct-06 1.625 2.809 4.434 16
Jan-07 1.726 2.718 4.444 10
Apr-07 1.727 2.615 4.342 -102
Jul-07 1.708 2.489 4.197 -145
Oct-07 1.712 2.355 4.067 -130
Jan-08 1.745 2.201 3.946 -121
Apr-08 1.728 2.073 3.801 -145
Jul-08 1.686 1.937 3.623 -178
Oct-08 1.658 1.802 3.460 -163
Jan-09 1.654 1.681 3.335 -125

I think all the MSOs and DirecTV are reluctant players. Once there is no contempt, one can expect these numbers to go down further.
 
jacmyoung said:
Not true, the most important reason was the judge said this was not a "copying" case, because E* developed DVRs "many years before TiVo even existed as a company."

Really? You sticking with that? I assume you are talking about the $10,000+ DVR that they were creating for the military? The did not have any consumer DVRs until after they stole the tech from TiVo.

And the lack of treble damages had nothing to do with it not being a "copying" case. It's exactly as I explained, that certain evidence had not been presented to the jury. Here, right from Judge Folsom's mouth:


Judge Folsom on treble damages said:
Defendants’ M&G opinion letters were evidence that could have gone to demonstrate
Defendants’ state of mind at least to post-filing infringement. They illustrate a detailed, thorough analysis on which a fact finder might have determined Defendants reasonably relied. These opinions, combined with the evidence of Defendants’ other actions, could demonstrate a lack of willfulness on Defendants’ part



jacmyoung said:
No, stop calling a lie until you undstand what the appeals court did, they reversed the hardware verdict, so the hardware claims, as we speak, are not infringed. You can wish for any future "hypothetical" scenario all you want, TiVo is not re-visiting the hardware claims and will not do so, why?

Why do you constantly keep trying to mislead people? I mean seriously, it's all on paper. The did not reverse the hardware claims. They remanded them. There is a difference. Here's the exact text CAFC's decision. Note that they point out quite clearly that TiVo can decide to pursue this on Doctrine of Equivalents. I am quite certain they will if no settlement is reached after contempt is found in the next month or two.

Appeals Court said:
At this juncture, we could uphold the judgment on the basis of the doctrine of equivalents only if we were to conclude that no reasonable jury, given proper instructions, could reach any verdict other than to find infringement by equivalents. The parties, however, have not briefed that issue in any detail, and we therefore do not address it. More generally, we do not decide what further proceedings, if any, are appropriate in the district court regarding the equivalents issue. Instead, we leave that issue for the district court to resolve in the event that, on remand, TiVo decides to continue to pursue the hardware claims in light of this decision.


jacmyoung said:
Then you are calling the USPTO lying, because I was only quoting them. The USPTO said there is now "substential new question" regarding the validity of the sofware claims.

No. They say that about every single case they accept for reexam. Every single case. All you have to do is fill out an application and send in the money. They never even looked at the evidence. Not once. So how could they possible say that there is new evidence if they never even looked at it?

jacmyoung said:
Please stop feeling bad for Charlie and his lawyers

What makes you think I feel bad for them? If I felt bad for them I wouldn't have called them a bunch of circus clowns. LOL.

jacmyoung said:
Regardless how you feel, Judge Folsom did give more time

They asked for four months. They got 2.5 hours. They got 0.00008% of what they asked for. It's as if Judge Folsom was making fun of them. I sure got a laugh out of it. Do you think they all climbed in the clown car and went to Chuck E. Cheeses for Pizza to celebrate the extra 2.5 hours?
 
You mean like the DISH DTVPal Plus DVR that was supposed to really do a lot of damage to the TiVo Series 3? Well, at least that's what jacmyoung said, so it must be true...

I don't know who is doing TiVo the damages, but have you seen TiVo's latest sub loss? For the first time ever, TiVo is losing their own standalone subs by a large number.
 
Once the HD-DirecTiVo comes out, these numbers will shoot up.

Then when the DishTiVo comes out in 2011, it will shoot through the roof.

Comcast has had theirs out for over a year in a number of markets. Comcast has more subscribers then D*. Comcast's standard Moto DVR sucks badly. MSO numbers have not shot up over the past year. People are not willing to pay even $3 a month extra that Comcast wants to cover the TiVo tax. Will D* customers be willing to pay $5 a month extra to cover the TiVo tax?
 
DirecTV still says 2009.

By who? D* twitters?

DirecTV has yet said a single word of the new TiVo since they mentioned it on 9/3/08.

TiVo on the other hand said it would be 2010 the earliest, and may not even then.

Regardless, by that time, there wouldn't be many D*TiVo subs left anyway.
 
There's another company I know that has been having sub losses.

Of course, but it has nothing to do with TiVo rather Charlie's own bad management. I am one of the E* subs who moved to D*, and brought with me hundreds if not more to D* too:)

If TiVo loses this contempt issue, be prepared to see TiVo's numbers go down fast.
 
Comcast has had theirs out for over a year in a number of markets. Comcast has more subscribers then D*. Comcast's standard Moto DVR sucks badly. MSO numbers have not shot up over the past year. People are not willing to pay even $3 a month extra that Comcast wants to cover the TiVo tax. Will D* customers be willing to pay $5 a month extra to cover the TiVo tax?

Let me say this again, the so-called "significantly higher fees" as bragged by TiVo about the new D*TiVo was put out on 9/3/08, one day before the 9/4/08 TiVo v. E* hearing, to try to impress the judge that E* should pay a much higher loyalty, like up to $220M:)

But where is that new D*TiVo?
 
Let me say this again, the so-called "significantly higher fees" as bragged by TiVo about the new D*TiVo was put out on 9/3/08, one day before the 9/4/08 TiVo v. E* hearing, to try to impress the judge that E* sould pay a much higher loyalty, like up to $220M:)

But where is that new D*TiVo?

Coming.
 
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