Theoretical question re: downconverting

[varaonaid]

OK, so I'm not a real techie when it comes to satellite technology but I was thinking about something today and wanted to ask about the feasibility of it...

I understand that the 722 downconverts HD programming on its second tuner allowing SD tv's to see the content. So my idea is, on HD channels that are identical in programming to the SD content, is there a reason that they need to be "doubled up" with their SD counterpart? I understand that the majority of subs still have mpeg2 boxes but I'm looking down the road as they transition to mpeg4. Could the all mpeg4 receivers not simply downconvert the identical HD channels so that eventually, all they would need to carry is the HD version which would free up space?

Just a random thought. Perhaps it's what they already plan and I don't know anything about it. What do you think?

 

[garys]

You only see that on Vip mpeg4 receivers, Dish would have to replace ALL the non-HD receivers for that to work.

 

[GNASH]

OK, so I'm not a real techie when it comes to satellite technology but I was thinking about something today and wanted to ask about the feasibility of it...

I understand that the 722 downconverts HD programming on its second tuner allowing SD tv's to see the content. So my idea is, on HD channels that are identical in programming to the SD content, is there a reason that they need to be "doubled up" with their SD counterpart? I understand that the majority of subs still have mpeg2 boxes but I'm looking down the road as they transition to mpeg4. Could the all mpeg4 receivers not simply downconvert the identical HD channels so that eventually, all they would need to carry is the HD version which would free up space?

Just a random thought. Perhaps it's what they already plan and I don't know anything about it. What do you think?

We have our system set up so that we can see multiple tuners on each Tuner. When we are watching a HD program on an SD television, we usually get black bars on the screen (either on both sides or the top and bottom). With that, I don't believe dish would drop the SD channels as people with only SD televisions might complain about the bars.

Geoff

 

[dslate69]

You only see that on Vip mpeg4 receivers, Dish would have to replace ALL the non-HD receivers for that to work.

???
He took that in account in the question.

 

[garys]

Sorry, should have added, I don't think Dish would put up the cost of replacing the mpeg2 receivers, and the subscribers wouldn't pay the cost if Dish doesn't.

 

[dslate69]

... With that, I don't believe dish would drop the SD channels as people with only SD televisions might complain about the bars.

Agreed but how is there complaining any different from those complaining about picture quality or not enough channels which would both be addressed with this.
And come to think of it there wouldn't be any black bars if the sub knew how to use the "format" button.

 

[dslate69]

Sorry, should have added, I don't think Dish would put up the cost of replacing the mpeg2 receivers, and the subscribers wouldn't pay the cost if Dish doesn't.

Charlie has already said he is going ALL mpeg4. (I forget the time line; but it seemed unrealistic)
I think I remember reading that the cost if absorbed by DISH would be less than launching a bird but would give comparable bandwidth. (I am sure I will be corrected if this is wrong)

 

[GNASH]

Agreed but how is there complaining any different from those complaining about picture quality or not enough channels which would both be addressed with this.
And come to think of it there wouldn't be any black bars if the sub knew how to use the "format" button.

The complaining isn't different, but I don't see E* or any other provider dropping SD anytime soon. As for the complaining, if they fix that issue, there would be other complaining about something else. It seems like everyone likes to grumble and complain about something.

As far as using the format button, I know it drives me nuts to see the stretching caused by the format button. I know others don't like the stretching either. Just search this forum for stretching and I am sure you will find complaints (I remember complaints when A & E and History were stretching their stuff).

Geoff

 

[Jim5506]

Dish has 13 million subscribers. Lets assume that some have multiple receivers and many of those are MPEG2 only.

For argument sake lets say there are 13 million MPEG2 receivers out there.

If it costs Dish $100 each to replace those MPEG2 receivers - that's $1.3 BILLION.

I think I would spread this out over 10+ years and hope many of my subs upgrade to MPEG4 so I don't have to absorb the cost.

BTY - I think my numbers are low. It's probably more like $3 billion to replace all MPEG2 receivers..

 

[navychop]

Yep. I'm with you. But I don't think they have 10 years. They'll have to get customers to cost share this process- one way or another. Same for D*.

What's a satellite cost? $200M? Plus, limited frequencies and slots.

 

[vegassatellite]

I think DISH will still support the MPEG2 customers while making new customers MPEG4 only. Eventually, attrition will remove a lot of MPEG2 boxes either through subscriber churn or by offering MPEG4 boxes as replacements to failed MPEG2 boxes.

I see this transition playing out much the same way the transition to Digital Cable went. The cable company introduced Digital that had all kinds of funky channels but initially all the regular channels and premiums were still in the analog tier. Eventually, they started grabbing channels and removing them from analog and putting them on the digital tier. This forced small blocks of customers to follow the migration of their favorite channels as they were moved into digital. So I see DISH handling MPEG4 the same way. Cable had to absorb the costs of their subscriber equipment because they don't sell their boxes. DISH has a slight advantage in that they can potentially use contracts to at least assure some ROI from swapping boxes. The old MPEG2 boxes can probably be sold to other providers, especially now that they've split their technology and programming into separate companies. Considering they buy boxes back from customers at a whopping $5-10, reselling them should be profitable.

 

[TheKrell]

The old MPEG2 boxes can probably be sold to other providers...

Interesting comment; I figured these were just about worthless outside of Dish and BEV. Can you think of any other sinks for mpeg-2 receivers?

 

[vegassatellite]

European market. Echostar Europe sells all kinds of receivers like the 301/311, etc. Probably have to change the power supplies though.