stogie5150's Birdview install

[stogie5150]

More tweaking today. Ku is still hit and miss. Some TP's are good, some bad. I got the SQ pretty much equal on H/V TP's on G18Ku, but AMC 21 they vary widely. I re-skewed the LNB, I went one way then the other, watching the whole while for when the signal dropped off each way, then slowly started splitting the difference each way until I got it as good as possible. Which ain't so good.

The S2 mux on AMC 21 is a no go. No SQ at all. Most of the sats I tried have a different position for different TP's on the same satellite, its weird as hell, and I don't understand why or what to do about it.

C-band continues to be stellar. Beats the Paraclipse on every signal I've tried it on. Ku is just unobtainable at this point in time.

Sorry I couldn't have better news for those of you that are contemplating trying it.

 

[linuxman]

Hey Stogie, Sorry I haven't been more help in these final steps.

Here are the steps for optimal tune-up:
1. Set declination.
2. Forget declination.
3. If you decide to adjust declination again, re-read rule number 1 and 2.
4. Set skew using the illustration below.
5. Set F/D ration which with your dish and the CK-1 it should be just a 1/16 of an inch sticking out of the scaler.
6. The Focal length is already set by the length of the support arms.
7. Adjust elevation at center of arc, then swing over to east or west and check.
8. Do not adjust elevation at ends of arc. If signal is weak, twist whole assembly on mount, then back to center for further elevation adjustment.

For Ku reception, the elevation is critical, and you may not be able to get it perfectly without some sort of adjusting bolt between the elevation bar and cap.



Hope that helps!

 

[phlatwound]

Well that sucks.

If you can't get the Ku where you want it, will you try another feed/LNB setup?

 

[stogie5150]

Hey Stogie, Sorry I haven't been more help in these final steps.

Here are the steps for optimal tune-up:
1. Set declination.
2. Forget declination.
3. If you decide to adjust declination again, re-read rule number 1 and 2.
4. Set skew using the illustration below.
5. Set F/D ration which with your dish and the CK-1 it should be just a 1/16 of an inch sticking out of the scaler.
6. The Focal length is already set by the length of the support arms.
7. Adjust elevation at center of arc, then swing over to east or west and check.
8. Do not adjust elevation at ends of arc. If signal is weak, twist whole assembly on mount, then back to center for further elevation adjustment.

For Ku reception, the elevation is critical, and you may not be able to get it perfectly without some sort of adjusting bolt between the elevation bar and cap.

View attachment 32370

Hope that helps!

Okay. First off, glad to see you up and at em again. Take care of yourself, Brother.

I re-checked the declination after we talked a couple weeks ago, it was off after I squared the bottom plate to the dish like we talked about. So I had to add more washers, I had to get longer bolts, I am up to 10 washers now. My declination for here is 4.45 degrees, I have an indicated 4.5 difference. 30.90 on the elevation bar (my Latitude), 35.4 on the back of the dish, measured across the center hole with a machinists 1 foot steel square blade, just like we talked about.
I also took the same square blade and laid it across the dish side of the scalar and clamped it off so I would be damned sure the waveguide would be square with the scalar.

With me so far? OK.

After STILL having no joy, I started measuring the centering of the scalar itself. and, it ain't centered. I measured at 9,12,3,and 6 on the scalar to a point on the dish, and every damned one of them was different. BUT, and its a BIG BUT here, its very hard to get measurements on this dish, because the feed legs get in the way all the time. So I am not sure at all that I measured it correctly. My next step is to figure out some way to make a homemade laser pointer that I can slide in the scalar, flush it up, and just see exactly where in the heck its pointing. I'd bet money its not centered. I say that because I clamped a steel square across the scalar, and then took a square and sighted down the center of the scalar ring along the edge of the square blade, and I was NOT looking at the center of the dish.

Anole suggested maybe a small soup can with a laser pointer cemented in the end, checked for squareness by putting it on a kitchen table and turning the can, watching the dot on the ceiling to make sure it isn't in a circle.

Thoughts?

Well that sucks.

If you can't get the Ku where you want it, will you try another feed/LNB setup?

No, I'll put my 1m Primestar back up and use that. The dish fund is DRY.

 

[linuxman]

I'm with you so far.

It sounds to me like you are correct about the wave-guide not being centered.

I finally got tired of using the hand made tools and spent the $85.00 last summer and got a 3 way laser level to use for centering my wave-guides.

I am not fully back up to speed, but I feel better than I did.

 

[stogie5150]

Behold!

The 10 buck laser pen dish aimer doo-dad (2 cents to Anole for the name)

I made sure the laser was straight barreled so it would be easy to plumb up on the jig. Made a target to center it in the scalar (1st pic), then remove the target and shoot the dot on the dish.

It ain't centered. LOL

 

[linuxman]

Well that explains a lot about your Ku not being up to par.

Just have to figure out how to get it centered and the scalar parallel with the dish face.

 

[stogie5150]

Well that explains a lot about your Ku not being up to par.

Just have to figure out how to get it centered and the scalar parallel with the dish face.

Hammer?

 

[gabshere]

is it (the feedhorn poles) warped to far to one side ? if you tape the lazer in place and lightly push the scaller ring , will it align up ?
if so then you might have to bend it some way so it centers . BTW good job on the lazer holder

 

[stogie5150]

Scalar wasn't perpendicular to the dish. I measured it all the way around four places, and on one side it measured 39 7/8 inches, other side it measured 40 1/8 inches. Top and bottom was the same. So I added washers to bring it closer to the dish, as even as possible.

Rechecked with the laser and....its pretty close. I think as close as the tolerance of my homemade tool....what I made isn't exactly lab quality, after all...

Ran the dish over to G18 and C-band was great as usual, Ku was so-so....67 quality on the RTN's....I realized that its storming rain in Little Rock, so that may be the issue. The H side is still weaker than the V side. I ran it to AMC 21 to try there, and the V TP's were right around 90 percent on the coolsat, the H TP's around 70 percent. Here on my 1m dish they are equal SQ, so I know the signal is there and equal, I think just need to adjust the skew some more.Later. Its DARK outside!

 

[Cadsulfide]

Bullseye!

 

[linuxman]

Scalar wasn't perpendicular to the dish. I measured it all the way around four places, and on one side it measured 39 7/8 inches, other side it measured 40 1/8 inches. Top and bottom was the same. So I added washers to bring it closer to the dish, as even as possible.

Rechecked with the laser and....its pretty close. I think as close as the tolerance of my homemade tool....what I made isn't exactly lab quality, after all...

Ran the dish over to G18 and C-band was great as usual, Ku was so-so....67 quality on the RTN's....I realized that its storming rain in Little Rock, so that may be the issue. The H side is still weaker than the V side. I ran it to AMC 21 to try there, and the V TP's were right around 90 percent on the coolsat, the H TP's around 70 percent. Here on my 1m dish they are equal SQ, so I know the signal is there and equal, I think just need to adjust the skew some more.Later. Its DARK outside!

Sounds like she is starting to come on in for you!

It is absolutely astounding just how small amount a dish can be off in alignment, and how much signal is lost because of it.

If you really want to know how much it is off in the center, place a mirror on the back side of the hole, shoot your laser to the mirror and see if the laser goes back to place of origin.

 

[stogie5150]

Still struggling. Now BOTH bands are spotty. I talked to Linuxman today on the phone, and he still thinks that the feed isn't centered properly. I don't know so I am just going to have to go with that. I re-skewed the LNB at TS, and got the c-band equal, so I know that's right. Switch over to Ku, and the H transponders are different quality than the V transponders. I tried to push and pull the dish up and down with the Ku signal, I could make it worse but no better. Well, I could make it better on the H side, which makes sense, but when I do that it kills the V side.

I don't have the patience for this...

Well, actually, that's not true. If I knew what I was DOING it would help.

I bought some brackets at home depot this morning, I am going to try and make a better laser pointer tool, its about all I know to do.

This is maddening.

 

[linuxman]

Patience Grasshopper!!

Sit back and contemplate the sound of one hand clapping for a while.

Then resume your course of action.

 

[Lak7]

Stogie5150

I see where the name comes from.

Now not to confuse things...
Wouldn't you want the Laser mounted to the Feedhorn somehow?


http://www.satelliteguys.us/member.php?u=64729

 

[stogie5150]

I see where the name comes from.
Now not to confuse things...
Wouldn't you want the Laser mounted to the Feedhorn somehow?

It was sitting on the "sky side" of the scalar. I centered it with a target I made from the original feed, then centered the target in the scalar and clamped it off with vice grip clamps. I aimed the laser tool at the center of the target, then removed the target and let the laser tell me where the scalar lies.

Next step is to take a 10' 2X4 and lay it across the dish edgeways, and measure from that to the scalar, first horizontally, then vertically, and compare the measurements. I'd bet if I can get the scalar the correct distance it will be centered.

 

[gabshere]

one thing that i fought with and still am is

I got the dish pointed at TS and extended the feedhorm holding arms when i did the scaler went unlevel. so i had to level it back out and got the same distance for each arm on the scaler ( here's where the lazer helps). after i got it all even i looked and measured and guess what my lnbf was slightly off so i had to level it too ( last) so there are a bunch of steps to tweak the feedhorn & scaler. lol lol

one thing is that the lazer with help you with each one so you can even up all the lazer point locations and even when the lazer points back to the lnbf. you will get it all aligned out and working like a champ

also check to see if you have a little bar that is a support inside the lnbf. look and see if it sets in front of one of the ku probes ( i bet it sits in front of the H probe) mine did on the bsc621.

 

[Anole]

let the light shine through

I centered it with a target I made from the original feed, then centered the target in the scalar and clamped it off with vice grip clamps. I aimed the laser tool at the center of the target, then removed the target and let the laser tell me where the scalar lies.

Not sure if it'll save you a step or not, but how 'bout using a paperclip and poking a small hole in the middle of your target ?

How's the fit of the Ck-1 feedhorn within the scalar?
This a Chaparral scalar?
I know this dish had the conversion, but I don't quite understand if that meant pulling out the original Birdview scalar or just modifying it.

 

[stogie5150]

Well today was it.

I've done everything I know how to do, and KU is a no go. I can't get it any more centered than it is without taking it apart and measuring every feed support pole and seeing what is bent, the scalar continues to be off center about 1/8 - 3/16 of an inch, and there is no way I can see to adjust that with the way the Birdview is built.
I built another laser tool, this one was much better, and the waveguide is very very close to being centered. I'd say within 1/8 or so. I used washers between the scalar and the rigid ring that is under it to get the centering, I have no idea how much that screwed up the side to side and bottom to top of the scalar-to-edge of dish measurement, and to be honest I don't wanna know.

C-band continues to be absolutely stellar. I am VERY pleased with it on C-band.

Its not very often I wash my hands of something, especially when it doesn't please me, but this one is done. I'm not proud, but it is what it is. :up

I am not going to worry about it anymore.

 

[linuxman]

Well today was it.

I've done everything I know how to do, and KU is a no go. I can't get it any more centered than it is without taking it apart and measuring every feed support pole and seeing what is bent, the scalar continues to be off center about 1/8 - 3/16 of an inch, and there is no way I can see to adjust that with the way the Birdview is built.
I built another laser tool, this one was much better, and the waveguide is very very close to being centered. I'd say within 1/8 or so. I used washers between the scalar and the rigid ring that is under it to get the centering, I have no idea how much that screwed up the side to side and bottom to top of the scalar-to-edge of dish measurement, and to be honest I don't wanna know.

C-band continues to be absolutely stellar. I am VERY pleased with it on C-band.

Its not very often I wash my hands of something, especially when it doesn't please me, but this one is done. I'm not proud, but it is what it is. :up

I am not going to worry about it anymore.

Well as long as you gave it your best shot, you have done all you can.

At least the C-Band is "stellar" across the arc for you and that is worth it's weight in gold.

You can always hook up your 1M Primestar on a motor and use it for Ku.

I am seriously considering adopting fixed dishes for all my Ku reception and adding at least some C-Band fixed dishes to share between my family room and my room receivers, just to cut down on motor movement.

Just have to figure out how to do the sharing between receivers.

I'd say you have done a great job Stogie and I am glad you are pleased with your C-Band reception.