Possible major signal loss.

[MustangLX89]

I'm thinking at this point I may be screwed out of my DVR. As much as I dislike Dish Network I love the damn 510 DVR we have. We've used it the past year and frankly we don't know what the hell we did before it. The place we are moving to has free cable which is handy I suppose. But they don't have DVR available in our area. Leasing a DVR from the cable provider is out. Can anyone that's an installer or familer with signal strength check out the below photo and figure if I'm looking at a major loss of signal or something usable to keep the dish? We have trees in front of our dish at our present location but they are are about 250 feet away as opposed to 100 feet away at our new location below. Presently our signal strength is 125 and 123 on 119 and 110. This is the best location I can find and unfortunatly we cannot mount to the house we are moving to since we are renting out the basement. The shaded area is about where the dish will be pointed. The trees do leaf out but not heavily. TIA

 

[KE4EST]

Hello Mustang or(dirty old man) don't know which you prefer, but anyway what is your zip code? Also is that a deck I see above where you be installing the dish? You said basement so I'm guessing. I need your Zip but I have been installing Dish and Direct for a few years, so with what I have now You may get 119 ok untill spring comes and the trees leave out but 110 may be blocked by the deck(house). Please give more info your Zip, and town and state, and is that where you have to put the dish from pic(I assume you do or would not have sent pic)...But with what I see it don't look good...Hope I helped or can help....

 

[boba]

Get a Stand Alone TiVo and use the free cable.

 

[Grandude]

Mustang,
Bear in mind that the actual location of the satellite is much higher than the point that the dish appears to be facing. It varies, of course, on where you are but a rule of thumb might be that the satellite would be somewhere about half way between the dish and the arm holding the LNB. In other words, maybe you will be above the trees after all.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Renting a basement probably means the owner lives upstairs.

Maybe they can be convinced that a mount on the back of that deck is OK.

Other than that, what the previous posters have said applies.

As for the elevation - just point the camera per the actual Elevation number and ignore what you think the Dish is looking at (which is 20+ degrees lower than reality).

 

[MustangLX89]

Both Sats show an azimuth angle of 232, elevation angle of 32, and skew of 122. I used a compass and homemade azimuth device using a 180 compass with a straw for the sightline. the 232 line damn near lines up perfectly with the rear edge of the house. The 32 degree elevation is about where the red and orange circle is on the picture. I double checked by setting the spare dish I have to these settings and leveled out the mast up against the deck post and saw the same thing. I was thinking of mounting to a post a few feet from the deck in order to make certain I clear it. Unfortunatly most of the other possible locations are even worse than this as far as tree coverage. The was the closest best location I could find so far. The location I'm at now (before our move) seems to look directly through a similar tree of the same density only further down the street with minimal signal loss. At worst our signal drops to 119/122 when the tree fills out.

I've asked about mounting the dish to their deck our higher on their house but they don't really want it done. I also know whacking down their tree won't happen either. I offered them to get a second receiver on our account even, if they would allow a higher house mount. I was denied this as well. I don't want to argue to much with them because they are giving us a great deal on the rent. Right now we are renting a 30 year old trailer house for $300 a month. We pay the water/sewer, electric, phone, internet, trash, and dish. At the new location we are going to be charged $350 a month rent for a basement apartment. We will only have to pay for phone and internet as all the other are covered by the rent including the cable. I've seen their cable picture quality in their home and it's far from likable. It had almost as much snow as a regular over the air antenna. Then there is the whole dvr thing. I'm uncertain as to the reliability of the TiVo dvr. There is also the dig of buying one and being stuck with old technology after a year or so. I dunno.

Right now I'm fighting hard to keep the dish but it may not be a viable option. The wiring they have in the basement is the old RJ-5 something unshielded cable wire so I'm also looking at running new cable as well. I'm trying hard not to mount in the front yard either as I don't want to take away from the astetics of their property. The other problem is wire run length. I'm not thinking a 150' is really that much once you take into account the distance to the actual receiver. I've toyed with the idea of having it in another room though since the uhf remote goes fairly far. I'm gussing I my have to do some more looking though.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Whew. Don't bother with the wiring until you know you've got signal.

The RG-59 MUST GO - especially for a 150' run. DishPro can do 200' with good wire. If you're still running Legacy LNBFs, you may be in trouble.

The reason both birds come up with the same numbers is that you have the "Dish500" box checked. In reality, for you, 110 is at about 228/35 and 119 is around 238/30 - guesstimating from a close zipcode I found - 00283.

That puts 110 real close to the tree trunk - but I don't think it matters - there's WAY too many tree/leaves to look through. Assuming you aimed it right (and I think you did), based on that picture you're a "no install - LOS".

 

[MustangLX89]

I don't have any idea what LNB's I have. They were installed about 2 years ago now on the Dish 500 system we have. Our zipcode is 44654. I'm definatly pulling the RG-59 (sounds familier to what's in there) anyway if we keep the cable. The basement apartment we are moving in has a suspended tile ceiling and all they did was drop a feed through the tile where the last people had a tv. Looks unfinished and unprofessional to say the least. I'll be dropping it through the walls and putting in plates for a more finished look in several rooms.

I did some further looking around today at some other locations I may be able to use. I talked to the landlords and found I can install in the front of the house on the backend of the lot in some grassy area. I checked a rough distance (my shoe is exactly 12") stepped heel to toe, and got a distance of 65' from potential pole site to the access hole into the wall. I was thinking 150' because of what the install manual said and will try to stay under that if possible. I'm not sure if I'll stay under that distance if I put the receiver in the living room though. I stepped off about 65' with drops to that location from the wall access hole. I'll check tomarrow to make certain If I'm understanding your numbers correctly the 110 sat is actually about 10 degrees back towards the left of the 119 sat. If I'm understanding that right the location I'm looking at may work if we can get the distance handled. As I mentioned I may end up setting the receiver in the closest room and just run the signal to the tv itself.

I also got a chance to see the landlords television again today. They may just have a problem with their television set also. I took a closer look at the picture and damn was it off color leaning towards red. it also seems like the whole picture is out of focus as well. Almost like taking off your prescription glasses and trying to look at something. It's an old Zenith set from what I saw. Hell, maybe I'll get lucky and they'll see the picture the sat gets and get emm to pick up a new tv and let me hook up the dish in their place upstairs. Knock a little out of the rent, wink wink, for hooking them up with a receiver. (Yea right. they are older and probably don't even notice something wrong with the tv.)

I'm looking at running RG-6 for the cable service and the sat service inside the house. the run outside will most likely have to be put underground about an inch or two if we move out and have to take it up. What type of cable outside would be best or the lowest loss within price reason?

Thanks for all the help yall are giving. It's definatly doing some good.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Well, with the correct zip code, my estimating was off by one degree in a couple of places. 110=227/35, 119=237/29.

Look at your LNB for a "DP" logo. Check this out, too: http://www.switchinfo.info/lnbs.html

If it's DP, you're good for 200', Legacy to maybe 150'.

Good RG-6/u is what you need - but I would NEVER bury a piece of cable just a couple of inches underground. That's just WRONG. Bury it right and leave it there for the next people that need it - it's plenty cheap enough.

 

[MustangLX89]

Looks like I have the Legacy Twin LNB. I just looked outside and it has the Dish Network logo on it like the first picture in the link you have listed. Looks like I've got about 150' to play with total length. If I figure for a clear signal on the 119 I should be good for 110 since it's off to the left correct? As for trenching the cable how far should it go down exactly? The place the cable will go in is also located near the house grounding rod as well. In that area alone they have the house electrical, phone lines, and cable service trenched underground. I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be going any deeper than 3". Then there is the whole bit with the deer nestle or whatever they call that thorny crap I have to run the wire through. With these folks I don't even know from one day to the next what they'll allow. It seems like they forget stuff on occasion. I know they have no plans right now for using a dish and we plan on staying for quite some time. They are also content with their cable and the bill at this time. I'm thinking once they get a look at the setup we have might change their mind though. I know the guy likes watching basketball and golf alot, even though I can't see how he sees anything with his tv. His picture is about as fuzzy as this ad you have here...

 

[SimpleSimon]

I can't speak to your clearance on 110 vs. 119 'cause I can't see what you see. All i CAN say is that the picture you posted is a "NO LOS".

I can't say I follow you on which pic you're talking about over at switchinfo. The first pic is a Legacy Single, not a Twin. The LAST pic shows you what a DishPro logo looks like, and where it is. I suspect you're talking about the pic of the twin mounted on the dish with an unpainted logo "dish network". That one is a Legacy. Doesn't really matter, tho. Either Twin will drive two receivers.

As for trenching, you can get away with using a flat shovel to cut the trench. Just drop the cable in the bottom of it as you go (two-person operation). Note that in most areas, underground utility finding is free.

 

[MustangLX89]

I had to move the potential location of the dish today a bit. I also took a nondirect route to the point in the wall where the cable would go. It came out to about 100' total length from dish to wall access. I haven't posted a pic yet of the new location I've found becase of the rain. It's a digital camera and it would toast it. Looking at it though it is just as clear as our present location, just a little farther than I would like. The weather for the rest of the week here isn't looking good for getting a picture of the new site either. Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[MustangLX89]

I got a pic of the new location I have now. Aside from future tree growth, which I'm told the tree in question has basically reached height, I should be good to go. The distance is quite far from the dish itself. The only thing now is the distance to the receiver which came out around 100' or so. I still can't run it to the living room because it would be another 68' to the wall plate in the living room. That's well outside the distance for the maximum cable run. No worries though since the DVR 510 has the UHF remote with it.

 

[Cyclone]

What happens if you put a DP34 switch in between, will it cut down on length requirements. ie 100' from Dish to Switch, and then you're good for another 50' from Receiver to switch? I don't know, just asking.

I guess I'm wondering if switches regerate signals.

 

[MustangLX89]

The manual says that with my LNB I'm only good for a total of 150' from dish to the receiver. I don't think a switch will boost the signal another 50' if any at all. My understanding of the switch is that it just combines the signal from several sat dish's and puts it in one cable for the receiver.

I did find these signal amplifiers but I don't know how safe for the equipment, where to install, or if they actually boost the signal worthwhile for any distance.

 

[KyInstaller]

Rg6

The manual says that with my LNB I'm only good for a total of 150' from dish to the receiver. I don't think a switch will boost the signal another 50' if any at all. My understanding of the switch is that it just combines the signal from several sat dish's and puts it in one cable for the receiver.

I did find these signal amplifiers but I don't know how safe for the equipment, where to install, or if they actually boost the signal worthwhile for any distance.

You will need RG6, if You don't have a problem now, You will sooner or later, You need as much signal/voltage as You can get. By the way, did I mention You need RG6? Let Me repeat USE RG6, Use of RG59 is NOT covered under service agreement & DBS companies will not honor any service warranty or reception problems with RG59.............