NBA Lockout thread

[salsadancer7]

Well every single player makes a "profit" every year. But, on the other hand that is the cost of owning a business sometimes, not making a profit.

To me it looks like there is 4 entities battling this out.

Superstar max players vs. Mid level players vs. Large market owners vs. Small market owners.

Superstar max players and Large market owners will always make cash hand over fist.

And I agree with you here....but the owners have their OWN brethren to blame. As much as I love having the Miami version of the "Big Three", there is no way Bosh should be making as much, and in this case, MORE than Wade or James. But, the HEAT owner did agree to the contract. THAT is a big market example.... In a small market example of the owners not being able to control themselves...there is the Rudy Gay contract.... 5 years, $80 million... WOW!

 

[salsadancer7]

Sounds like the players moved from the current 57-43 split in favor of the players, to a 53-47 split in favor of the players...and will not go any lower. This is not the only issue...but it's a huge issue.


Sandra

And this instance, I totally agree that the players OR the owners should have a majority split...especially this big. To me, AGAIN, it should be a 50-50 split. The owners now want it 53-47 in THEIR favor.

Need side will ever trust each other. How the owners were stupid enough to agree to it in the LAST CBA is beyond me and further proof they cannot police themselves.

 

[SandraC]

How the owners were stupid enough to agree to it in the LAST CBA is beyond me and further proof they cannot police themselves.

So then you cannot fault them for not being stupid during the current CBA negotations.


Sandra

 

[salsadancer7]

So then you cannot fault them for not being stupid during the current CBA negotations.

Sandra

No...I can't. But owners making dumbass mistakes and literally beg the players bail them out over and over and over again because they cannot police themselves....gets tired....and then at that point, they NEED to be faulted. Especially when the owners try to paint themselves as being innocent/or the victim in the whole process. I have clearly stated that I think the players have a distinct basketball revenue advantage that they have that is unfair. I think they HAVE to have a partnership. But you can't that without trust and the OWNERS have done nothing to do to earn it. They locked out the players, the players did not strike. It is TO ME, the burden of the owners to PROVE they are losing all this money and why they want a basketball revenue advantage of 53-47.

Something fans just refuse to see that....not saying you, but most fans in general.

They had this great interview on a local station a few weeks ago with Magic GM Pat Williams and he stated something very interesting about owners. He stated that if you notice, the owners that have a professional franchise 'as a hobby' are the most successful because the team is not their main source of income. He stated that currently, there are too many owners that have their team as the only source of income in the 4 major sports...and they are the least successful, both in business and in winning(of course he refused to name names...but you heard him chuckle and say, "you can tell who is who"). Since the owners approve anyone that would own a team, I don't know, maybe that should be a criteria.

 

[SandraC]

One huge problem is that, as I've been stating all along, the ultimate line in the sand is not until early to mid January. At that point, if there is not a settlement, the entire season is in danger of being lost...but not until that point.

It's very simplistic to say they should not wait until that point, but unfortunately waiting the other party out is all a part of the negotiating process. In mid January there will be pressure from some players (the ones not named Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, etc.) to settle so they can get a paycheck. There will also be pressure from certain owners (Jerry Buss, Jim Dolan, etc.), who are making money, for a settlement as well.

Each side hopes the other side caves. Unfortunately, it looks like it's going to get all the way to that point.

At that point we'll see if the players lower their demand from 53-47 to 50-50, if 50-50 is amenable to the owners, etc.


Sandra

 

[salsadancer7]

One huge problem is that, as I've been stating all along, the ultimate line in the sand is not until early to mid January. At that point, if there is not a settlement, the entire season is in danger of being lost...but not until that point.

It's very simplistic to say they should not wait until that point, but unfortunately waiting the other party out is all a part of the negotiating process. In mid January there will be pressure from some players (the ones not named Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, etc.) to settle so they can get a paycheck. There will also be pressure from certain owners (Jerry Buss, Jim Dolan, etc.), who are making money, for a settlement as well.

Each side hopes the other side caves. Unfortunately, it looks like it's going to get all the way to that point.

At that point we'll see if the players lower their demand from 53-47 to 50-50, if 50-50 is amenable to the owners, etc.


Sandra

I agree with most of what you said. I do remember Mr. Hunter warning the players 2 years ago that this was coming and it was going to be THIS bad and to 'save their pennies'. IF the players 'took heed' as they say...and that is a big IF, and they saved. The players will wait out the owners and they will give in. IF they did not save their pennies, you are right and players will more than likely cave in.

As you say, "we shall see..."

 

[salsadancer7]

...YEP...

For those of you that was wonder the whole idea of spread the info on twitter, read below. This is a great read of the star manipulator of the NBA..good ole David Stern.

The owners want it all, and Stern’s forever been the man to bully people to their knees. This is a mission to make his richest owners even richer, ultimately allowing him to reap the bonuses and rewards that come to a union-breaking CEO. Yes, Stern and the hardliners shut down the NBA season Monday, and still Stern didn’t have the stomach to stand with the NBA logo in the background. The most sanctioned, most scripted event of his life, and he still couldn’t own it.

As much as anything Stern wants his professional shame in the shadows, narrowing the scope, the coverage. For Stern, the strategy is simple: Step out of the way, and let the players impale themselves in the public eye. Two weeks of the regular season are gone, more promise to be wiped away, and Stern will feed that public desire to tear apart his star players and feed into all the worst stereotypes. Only, this lockout will eventually end, and he’ll need to repair those images to make the NBA thrive again.

Stern is the master manipulator, and that’s never been easier to see. Throughout these talks, he’s had the Players Association leadership on a string. His agenda, his deadlines, his conditions to meet. One minute, the union’s calling for player meetings in Miami and Los Angeles, urging players to get on planes. Emails went out with locations and times, players purchased airline tickets. And then Stern says he wants to negotiate more, pushes back artificial deadlines of his creation, and soon the union is hastily canceling the player meetings and retreating back to his bargaining table.

Sometimes, the players union makes it so easy for the NBA. Before the talks fell apart without a deal on Monday, Players Association president Derek Fisher(notes) had an idea: Let’s flood people’s Twitter timelines with pointless catch phrases and hashtags, a plan born from the NFLPA and “The Bad News Bears in Breaking Training.” “Let us play,” Fisher told the players to post, forgetting that the public’s response – besides un-following his Twitter account out of sheer annoyance – was to tell the players to simply take the deal the owners were offering.

This wasn’t an idea out of the union’s smartest PR mind, Dan Wasserman, but one of the consulting pockets of the Players Association that do nothing but waste the players’ dues. Before you know it, there was Kenyon Martin(notes) calling for his “haters” to die of “full-blown AIDS,” and inviting everyone else giving him a hard time on Twitter to send along a home address, so he could come to your house and “kick your ass.”

Martin isn’t the norm, but he’s who many people want to believe populate this NBA. And why give them the chance on Monday, when the players could’ve let Stern have the bad-guy stage all to himself?
For better or worse, NBA players will never win public sympathy. They have every right to this labor fight, but it is their fight and their fight alone. It isn’t shared with the fans, the arena workers, no one. The sooner they understand that, the easier this will go for them. Forget the PR fight – just win the fight.

And of course, the clincher:

The owners “are more dug in than before, but it goes back to a comment David made to me several years ago,” Hunter said. “ ‘This is what my owners have to have.’ And I said, ‘The only way you’re going to get that is if you’re prepared to lock us out for a year or two.’ And he’s indicated to me that they’re willing to do it.

“So my belief is that everything he’s done is demonstrating that he’s following that script.”

Stern ducks, lets NBA players take hit - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

 

[salsadancer7]

Interesting....

Yahoo Sports NBA section listed the players that will lose the most money with a season wiped out:

10. Joe Johnson
Hawks, $1,387,582.54 per paycheck: Atlanta's $119 million man Johnson was one of the surprisingly large signings in 2010 and has been pointed out as an example why so many NBA teams are suffering financially. Even if the lockout makes Johnson suffer a bit this year, the future looks good. The contract will pay Johnson $18,038,573 in 2011 and increase from there through 2015 when he will earn $24.9 million.

9. Amar'e Stoudemire
Knicks, $1,401,361.92 per paycheck: Stoudemire is likely eager to get back on the court to jel with the new Knicks team that was swept by the Celtics in the first round of the playoffs. The series was particularly hard for Stoudemire who played through injuries with disappointing results. Unfortunately, the cancelled preseason jeopardizes the jelling process with his teammates and he's facing a cut into his $18,217,705 salary.

8. Carmelo Anthony
Knicks, $1,423,076.92 per paycheck: Since arriving from Denver, Anthony signed an extension with the Knicks and will make $18.5 million this season. Nice new neighborhood.

7. Pau Gasol
Lakers, $1,439,550 per paycheck: Sure, Gasol could spend the lockout performing surgery in his native Spain, but he is still unlikely to pull in the kind of cash he would make playing basketball. He is set to bankroll $18,714,150 this season, or $1.44 million per paycheck.

6. Dirk Nowitzki
Mavericks, $1,468,682.54 per paycheck: The lockout has to have put a damper on the celebratory summer for the reigning NBA Finals MVP and the champion Mavericks. The champs will lose momentum with the cancelled preseason, and losing the nearly $1.5 million Nowitzki earns every paycheck from his $19,092,873 annual salary has to hurt too.

5. Gilbert Arenas
Magic, $1,482,254.46 per paycheck: 2010 was a tough year for Arenas. He was traded to the Magic for Rashard Lewis after a troubled stint in Washington where he pleaded guilty of felony weapons charges, was suspended indefinitely by the NBA and spent 30 days in a halfway house. However, earning almost $1.5 million a paycheck and $19,269,308 annually has to take off a bit of the sting.

4. Kevin Garnett
Celtics, $1,630,769.23 per paycheck: Garnett will likely be chomping at the bit to avenge last season's disappointing playoff loss to the Heat. While his numbers have dipped a bit in recent years, Garnett is still one of the most dominant power forwards in the game and his $21.2 million salary this season shows how much he means to the franchise. Yet, with his contract expiring at the end of the season, speculation is already bouncing around about Garnett's future with the Celtics. The quicker the lockout can end, the quicker Garnett can silence critics and prove he is worthy of his $1.63 million bi-weekly paychecks.

3. Tim Duncan
Spurs, $1,638,461.54 per paycheck: Duncan didn't exercise the Early Termination Option (ETO) in his contract that would have made him a free agent. Smart move. With Duncan's paltry averages last season -- 13.4 points and 8.9 rebounds -- he probably wouldn't command $21.3 million on the open market. He has one year left on his contract.

2. Rashard Lewis
Wizards, $1,704,000 per paycheck: Lewis signed a massive six-year, $118 million contract with the Magic in but was later traded to the Wizards for another player on the list, Gilbert Arenas. With two years left on his contract, Lewis is due $22,152,000 this season, so a lockout would be as disappointing to Lewis as his averages of 11.7 points and 5.1 rebounds last season were for the Wizards.ents.

1. Kobe Bryant
Lakers, $1,941,846.15 per paycheck: Bryant is widely regarded as the best player in the league and he is paid accordingly. Last April he signed a three-year, $83.5 million extension that will continue to make him the highest paid player in the NBA. He also raked in $25 million endorsements last year, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt to miss out on an almost $2 million paycheck every two weeks.

NBA's Biggest Lockout Victims | ThePostGame

 

[salsadancer7]

And of those 10 players...MAYBE 5 are franchise players... MAYBE... it's more like 3 with 2 border line. And you wonder why the league is supposedly hurting. The owners signing these dumb contracts.

...and with ALL the, were lucky the NBA isn't REALLY based on the true meaning of capitolism...then, as Jerry Buss said once...'Kobe would be worth $70 million a year with all the business he generates'.

Does Jerry Buss Believe Kobe Bryant Is Worth $70 Million a Year to the Lakers? | Larry Brown Sports

 

[salsadancer7]

Well it's about time! The players and owners will not get a federal mediator to sit in all their meetings. To me, this should be done at ALL levels to get disputes resolved as fast as possible with as little blood shed as possible.

NBA labor -- owners, players to meet with federal mediator next week - ESPN

 

[SandraC]

The difference between the NFL and NBA lockouts is that the only question in the NFL was how much money each team would make from the golden goose.

The NBA is much more like the NHL, where the business model is broken, and a number of owners will be OK with losing an entire season in order to fix it.

Hopefully a mediator will be of some help, but the good news is that even though the NHL did painfully lose an entire season, they came out the other side a MUCH stronger and more stable league. Also, fans did not hold the lockout against the sport...they returned almost immediately.


Sandra

 

[atl14dat]

Hope Stern keeps the Hammer Cocked.

Now that the first two weeks of the season have been eighty sixed, time to take an even harder line.

Would put the 50-50 offer back on the table with a Hard cap, tell Billy Hunter the Percentage will drop one point with each passing week. Tell NBAPA that if it goes past a month Season will be cancelled See ya in the Summer of 2012 to resume negotiations then..

Wonder what the players will be willing to settle for in June of 2012?

 

[salsadancer7]

Hope Stern keeps the Hammer Cocked.

Now that the first two weeks of the season have been eighty sixed, time to take an even harder line.

Would put the 50-50 offer back on the table with a Hard cap, tell Billy Hunter the Percentage will drop one point with each passing week. Tell NBAPA that if it goes past a month Season will be cancelled See ya in the Summer of 2012 to resume negotiations then..

Wonder what the players will be willing to settle for in June of 2012?

Stern will go down as the only commissioner to ever allow 2 work stoppages. You have not been abreast on the current situation. Not all of the owners WANT a hard cap...AND the owners want a 53-47 in basketball related revenue. The owners aren't even united amongst themselves.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

In case you were wondering, here's the Taiwanese view of the NBA lockout:

 

[salsadancer7]

In case you were wondering, here's the Taiwanese view of the NBA lockout

LMAO!! I love the teams sitting in the hospital bed bit...!!

 

[SandraC]

The owners aren't even united amongst themselves.

LOL neither are the players. That's typical of any two sides in a negotiation.


Sandra

 

[salsadancer7]

LOL neither are the players. That's typical of any two sides in a negotiation.


Sandra

The Players are united...for the the time being. The owners are not. Do you think Mickey Aronson wants to be "fined" because he went over the salary capped? Of course not. Once December rolls around, then I can agree with you. But at the current moment, I disagree.

 

[salsadancer7]

Hmmm...this would be interesting...

.....I like the idea. But would he really get involved?

This generation’s players still wear his No. 23 jersey, and, yes, his shoes remain among the most popular in the world. He’s gone from the court to the owner’s suite, and somehow he makes more in endorsement money now than he did as a player.

All of which makes it distressing that Jordan has been largely invisible in the NBA’s ongoing labor standoff. He fought in this battle as a player and now he’s on the opposite side as owner of the Charlotte Bobcats. He can offer a unique perspective at the negotiating table – if only he’d take a seat at the table.

The awkwardness of Jordan’s position – many of the same star players his ownership peers are negotiating against are part of his Jordan Brand stable – might have contributed to him distancing himself from the talks. But with NBA commissioner David Stern just cancelling the first two weeks of the season and putting the rest of the 2011-12 schedule on notice, the league would benefit from having Jordan’s presence at any future negotiations. Players Association executive director Billy Hunter said he and Stern will meet with a federal mediator next week – a positive step – but if there’s any one person within the league who can coax the two sides closer toward a middle ground, it’s likely Jordan.

In simpler terms: The NBA once again needs its greatest player to come through in the clutch.

Jordan’s background in the league is as diverse as anyone’s: He’s gone from star player to general manager to owner. He played (and worked) in big markets in Chicago and Washington, and is now trying to make the small-market Bobcats relevant in Charlotte. He entered the league making $630,000 as a rookie and earned as much as $33 million for a single season. He’s the only African-American majority owner in a league predominantly made up of African-Americans.

Most of the league’s players still admire or respect Jordan. And even those that don’t trust him as an owner would at least listen to what he has to say.

In time of need, Jordan silent in labor talks - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

 

[salsadancer7]

This is GREAT stuff... from the same article:

Jordan was retiring during the league’s last lockout before the 1998-99 season, but he still showed up at a big labor meeting in New York to confront the owners with the players present. He told Abe Pollin, the late owner of the Washington Wizards, that if he couldn’t afford to compete, he should sell the team.

“Michael Jordan was going at commissioner Stern and Pollin, talking about if you keep writing these bad checks to these bad players maybe you need to give up ownership of your team,” former Indiana Pacers guard Reggie Miller said in an interview on NBA TV. “Michael Jordan was, and still is, the greatest basketball player ever, and he was stepping up for the players.

 

[SandraC]

The Players are united

LOL of course they are...


Sandra