The issue is people are basing their opinions on things that simply are not true and not supported by facts.
To say you don't like him is an opinion. That is fine. To falsely present information on his performance is a matter of fact, not opinion.
MLB 2013 Season
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To say you don't like him is an opinion. That is fine. To falsely present information on his performance is a matter of fact, not opinion.
The thing I didn't care for was they he ended up being a part of the players that in my opinion when he was in Boston just didn't seem to care, more or less went along with the crowd when the team went south and instead of standing up and saying hey guys, lets right the ship and start playing, he becamse part of the problem, instead of the leader he had been known to be.
When he went to Boston, I was thrilled for them, he's a very good professional hitter, apparently when he wants to be .... fwiw, there are others that are out there like that as well, he's not alone.
I would have expected him to rain the malcontents in and straighten them up, being a long time Vet that he is.
Just curious, why didn't you highlight that whole sentence?
You left out the most important part: "two things". Again, those two things that are FACT and not opinion are he was a multimillionaire malcontent IN Boston AND he has been a part of three consecutive late season collapses for three different teams. Both are FACTS.
Because my response was just to that portion you mentioned which is related to what we were discussing. And it wasn't directed at you either. It was a summary of this Adrian discussion as a whole on this site. I did not want to take this on yet another tangent. Every time we deviate we lose site of the original premise.Just curious, why didn't you highlight that whole sentence?
Great post Jimbo, you get it!! The part I highlighted is my thoughts to a tee!!
Listen, nobody was happier than me when the Sox acquired this guy. Three years ago, there were two players that I coveted more than any other: Adrian Gonzalez and Felix Hernandez. So I was ecstatic when the Sox got this guy. The Sox needed a leader, and he wasn't up to the task.
I will address this since you did ask.
The problem is, this too is actually opinion and not fact. It is a fact that he was part of those teams (although I only know of two, not three), but the premise of the connection is opinion, not fact. Correlation is not causation. Unless you can present direct evidence connecting him or holding him responsible, it is still simply opinion. His numbers certainly don't show he contributed to the collapse.
I know for certain the Dodgers collapse last year had nothing at all to do with him. It had to do with Kemp getting injured AND half a roster change in which the team did not have time to learn how to play together. This same player has also contributed to the current surge.
Carl Yastrzemski and Jim Rice were malcontents in Boston for decades. According to legend, Yastrezemski would just go see the manager or owner during the off-season and tell them who he didn't like and they'd be gone before the next season started.
Everyone knows that the cause of the Red Sox 2011 collapse was letting the pitchers drink beer and eat chicken on their off days. That and Valentine saying "nice play" to a rookie back in May, after he had made an error
Everyone knows that the cause of the Red Sox 2011 collapse was letting the pitchers drink beer and eat chicken on their off days. That and Valentine saying "nice play" to a rookie back in May, after he had made an error
Two players (like Gonzalez) that stats transcends end results
Right, and none of the "leaders" had the stones to say cut the sheet.
Again, the only issue I was addressing are the false stats that people were presenting.
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That may very well be true. But it has nothing to do with how well he performed with them and how well he is performing now. And his performance now has nothing to do with no longer playing on the AL.
As far as a leader now for the Dodgers. He has become a good mentor to young players like Puig. He even helped straighten out Mr. Debby Downer Ethier.
He was part of the 2010 Padres team that folded down the stretch. A much more benign collapse, but a collapse nonetheless. If we're gonna use legal terms referencing Gonzalez, I say he's guilty as a "joint venturer" as part of three consecutive late season collapses.
But the issue I was addressing is not the transcended stats, it was the ignoring of the stats or the false stats.
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What evidence do you have of him contributing to the collapse? Did he do anything that lead to a team that finished 2 games out of first that should have never been in a Pennant race to begin with?
The 2010 Padres were lucky to even finish with a winning record. They played way over their heads all year. They were not that good of a team at all.
We can also turn this around and say that Gonzalez was also part of a team that won 90 games that should have only won 75. One can also give him credit for them doing much better than they should have. With the numbers he put up, one can argue the latter more so than the former.
It's not about "evidence". It's more "where there's smoke, there's fire" for me. Maybe the three straight years are a coincidence, but I'm not a big coincidence person.
After the 2010 season I would have totally agreed with this. Unfortunately, I can't ignore 2011 and 2012.
I never presented any stats. A great man once said "Stats are for losers".
I'll go with players that are winners and ones that I've seen with my own eyes have hits that produce wins and that would be Pedroia & Ortiz.
Since the Dodgers never score for Kershaw he had to drive in the runs himself.
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Often said by those when stats support the facts that contradict their own views, beliefs, or perspective.
Our eyes are often mislead. Anecdotal observation is more often than not, inaccurate. This is one of those cases as the numbers I presented show you are incorrect.
Gonzales had a higher average and drove in more runs in those clutch scenarios. This is a fact, like it or not. He was more successful more often than the other two.
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Instead of false stats, a better term would be empty stats.
Lets see if he can help "his team" get to the next level....
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Unlike his last start, Kershaw is pitching good in this game so far.
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