Long run MDU install, five DPH42 switches split from one sat signal

[rob Boyle]

Hey Guys

I'm trying to figure out if the MDU project I manage is getting a legit install. Some things on my project have given me doubts on whether my contractor know what he's doing

Its a MDU project, but a long string of 10 units spread out over 600 ft.

My installation is currently one DISH (not sure what model, prob. 1000 western arc)
that is split to feed 4 DPH42 switches

From the 4 seperate DPH42 switches we will be serving the 10 units, most with 3 or 4 wallys and 1 or 2 with hopper and 2 joeys.

Can the sat signal be spit into 4 before going into DPH42, and is 600 ft run way beyond the max? ( i read 140' in the guidelines)

 

[Claude Greiner]

You should be able to split the lines going into the switches so you can install multiple switches.

However some type of amplification would be required.

I obviously do more Directv then dish but the concept is the same.

You only need 1 Dish and the first thing you go into is a polarity locker which provides independent power to the dish.

From there, it will require a trunk amplifier and you split the lines before going into each switch.

Generally you amplify the main trunk line every 100-150 feet and install taps at each switch.

I hope the installer isn’t putting all the switches in the main building and letting the longest run be 600 feet.

You sure you really want Dish in this type of project?

The only reason why I ask is because you can setup a bulk account with Directv. Have the apartment or association provide a minimum level of service, and then each tenant can upgrade to whatever package they want by paying the difference in programming.

With Dish in an MDU situation it’s 1 package for the entire building.

Unless whoever is hooking this up is going to try to install individual residential accounts for each customer which is not allowed if everyone is sharing off the same dish.

 

[Claude Greiner]

If it’s 10 different buildings, you might want to consider a separate dish on each building.

 

[rob Boyle]

Thanks for the info.

My HOA basically got hustled by a sweet promo of Dish and Internet. Big start up fee and then low monthly costs.
The person that tried to install the system was not qualified to do so and now I am doing damage control.

I'm learning the basics of a MDU install so I can protect the interests if the HOA and will probably be going to court over this at some point.

 

[rob Boyle]

You should be able to split the lines going into the switches so you can install multiple switches.

However some type of amplification would be required.


From there, it will require a trunk amplifier and you split the lines before going into each switch.

Generally you amplify the main trunk line every 100-150 feet and install taps at each switch.

I hope the installer isn’t putting all the switches in the main building and letting the longest run be 600 feet.

.

That is what is happening. only one power inserter at the switch, and then multiple cable runs for each unit up to 600 ft away, not even counting the added ft inside the building.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Thanks for the info.

My HOA basically got hustled by a sweet promo of Dish and Internet. Big start up fee and then low monthly costs.
The person that tried to install the system was not qualified to do so and now I am doing damage control.

I'm learning the basics of a MDU install so I can protect the interests if the HOA and will probably be going to court over this at some point.

What are they charging you to install this?

In all honesty you only have a few hundred dollars worth Of equipment here.

Is each tenant signing their own contract or does the HOA pay a fee for each residents programming ?

If this is all they are installing I don’t see why there would be a install cost

 

[rob Boyle]

What are they charging you to install this?

In all honesty you only have a few hundred dollars worth Of equipment here.

Is each tenant signing their own contract or does the HOA pay a fee for each residents programming ?

If this is all they are installing I don’t see why there would be a install cost

The HOA consists of 44 units and paid 7k to get everything set up, including service with one Wally in each init. additional wallys were charged to the homeowner at $150 per.
The HOA is certainly feeling a bit duped right now, as the deal was made back in Sept and the installation is proceeding at a snails pace. The offer of a MDU rate on Dish was the attraction, but now many owners are hooking up Spectrum and DirectTV again as the Dish just never came through.
I dont think the Installer is very experienced at MDUs.
Is there a diagram I can find somewhere as to how an install would look using a trunk line?
The HOA may end up staying with the Dish contract, just under a different vendor. We will probably be in litigation soon.

The vendor spent 2 months installing 4 panels that look like the one I posted, and laying 1000's of ft of cable on the grounds. From the panel they have a dedicated cable for each unit, some 600 ft from the panel without any amplifiers.
The have not actually turned any service on at those distances yet to see what the signal looks like beyond 600 feet.

 

[Claude Greiner]

They got ripped off.

Wally’s cost $50 each from Dish to the dealer.

Unless there is some sort of internet solution being provided in the 7k price this was a bad idea.

1 television per unit is not going to cut it. People usually put a Tv in the bedroom and living room. I can’t even get a new Directv or cable customer to pay $60 for an install. Nobody is paying $150 for each additional room.

You can’t go into a place today and think your going to install only Tv without internet. By doing that your forcing people to subscribe to spectrum or AT&T internet and these people are paying a higher price for stand alone internet then they would have gotten as a bundle.

I bet when you factor in stand alone spectrum internet and what the HOA is paying for Dish, I bet you are more money than what it would cost for a bundle.

People care more for internet over tv being installed on 1 tv.

If a tenant wants to subscribe to HBO or showtime, are they allowed to do so, or do they need to get whatever package the HOA agreed upon? That’s not going to work, and when I see this happen unless the HOA is getting everything, people usually get their own account through a different provider.

Every time I see a HOA or apartment provide basic cable, it includes so little channels it’s not worth watching.

Are they getting the welcome pack or Top120?

Spectrum or Directv would have came in for free to do this

 

[HipKat]

They got ripped off.

Wally’s cost $50 each from Dish to the dealer.

Unless there is some sort of internet solution being provided in the 7k price this was a bad idea.

1 television per unit is not going to cut it. People usually put a Tv in the bedroom and living room. I can’t even get a new Directv or cable customer to pay $60 for an install. Nobody is paying $150 for each additional room.

You can’t go into a place today and think your going to install only Tv without internet. By doing that your forcing people to subscribe to spectrum or AT&T internet and these people are paying a higher price for stand alone internet then they would have gotten as a bundle.

I bet when you factor in stand alone spectrum internet and what the HOA is paying for Dish, I bet you are more money than what it would cost for a bundle.

People care more for internet over tv being installed on 1 tv.

If a tenant wants to subscribe to HBO or showtime, are they allowed to do so, or do they need to get whatever package the HOA agreed upon? That’s not going to work, and when I see this happen unless the HOA is getting everything, people usually get their own account through a different provider.

Every time I see a HOA or apartment provide basic cable, it includes so little channels it’s not worth watching.

Are they getting the welcome pack or Top120?

Spectrum or Directv would have came in for free to do this

Gotta love when a guy who doesn't install Dish and hasn't in how long?? Is gonna tell people what Dish should do and what Spectrum will do.
TBH, I'm surprised they didn't talk about using a smart box instead of a Wally in each unit

 

[Claude Greiner]

Gotta love when a guy who doesn't install Dish and hasn't in how long?? Is gonna tell people what Dish should do and what Spectrum will do.
TBH, I'm surprised they didn't talk about using a smart box instead of a Wally in each unit

I’m just speaking from a competitive standpoint.

I may not Have installed Dish in several years but I know the promos and what works and doesn’t work.

A smart box makes no sense in this situation as you really need about 75 units for it to make sense from a cost point. Also with a smart box it’s really not that smart as there is no guide. Just 48 or so channels with no features like on demand, PPV or options for DVR.

Again, what is the HOA doing for internet?

Without Internet it really spoils the entire deal. Smart thing to do would get a fiber connection and split that among the residents.

The point of getting a bulk deal is to deal with 1 provider. Not to deal with 2

 

[rob Boyle]

This same contractor is doing internet for all 44 units as well. He has a building nearby that has a a fiber optic connection and a little dish antenna on it, he is trying to install a relay antenna in the same spots as the Dish and running 600 plus feet of cat 5 cable to the homes.

The install of the internet is another 7k for 44 units, but only a $25 per month bill once its up and running. Right next to the antenna we are getting 50 mbps, hard to say how things will work out 600 feet and with 10 homes sharing each repeater.

Even spending the 14k start up for dish and internet ( was going to be $16 per month with premium channels) and Internet the HOA would have been happy as can be if the guy just got his install done in a timely and professional manner.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Well that is good that he is providing Internet.

But why not get a dedicated fiber connection for your association?

Sounds to me that the fiber connection is already paid for at the other building nearby and he is piggybacking off the bandwith he already is paying for at another location.

I would be curious what the speeds are at the other building and how much they degrade as the service is ran through the point to point antennas.

As far as Eithernet 333 feet is the max. I have ran 600 feet before but it was with Cat6.

I have some serious issues with the cat5 at 600 feet.

Also the wireless equipment he is using should he gig rated. Hopefully he is not using wireless equipment limited to 100 megs or less

 

[rob Boyle]

Well that is good that he is providing Internet.

But why not get a dedicated fiber connection for your association?

Sounds to me that the fiber connection is already paid for at the other building nearby and he is piggybacking off the bandwith he already is paying for at another location.

I would be curious what the speeds are at the other building and how much they degrade as the service is ran through the point to point antennas.

As far as Eithernet 333 feet is the max. I have ran 600 feet before but it was with Cat6.

I have some serious issues with the cat5 at 600 feet.

Also the wireless equipment he is using should he gig rated. Hopefully he is not using wireless equipment limited to 100 megs or less

Thanks for the info Claude, I'll check the wireless equipment to see just what have going.

 

[NeverGiveUP]

Hey Guys

I'm trying to figure out if the MDU project I manage is getting a legit install. Some things on my project have given me doubts on whether my contractor know what he's doing

Its a MDU project, but a long string of 10 units spread out over 600 ft.

My installation is currently one DISH (not sure what model, prob. 1000 western arc)
that is split to feed 4 DPH42 switches

From the 4 seperate DPH42 switches we will be serving the 10 units, most with 3 or 4 wallys and 1 or 2 with hopper and 2 joeys.

Can the sat signal be spit into 4 before going into DPH42, and is 600 ft run way beyond the max? ( i read 140' in the guidelines)

I am a commercial Dish installer. Every install is a smart box. Let me first say it does have a guide it just needs to be configured. You can install Evolve STBs on each television using the coax. I've installed many and it works well on a well balanced distribution system.

I am now involved in my first MDU Wally install using DPH42's. It's a nightmare as the system is very unstable. I'm having an terrible time getting all sats. sometimes it works and sometimes not. There is no pattern. I'm 5 days into a 32 Wally install and I have 1 TV working. I'm going to switch to DPP44s as they are much more stable.

Any help anyone?

 

[HipKat]

I am a commercial Dish installer. Every install is a smart box. Let me first say it does have a guide it just needs to be configured. You can install Evolve STBs on each television using the coax. I've installed many and it works well on a well balanced distribution system.

I am now involved in my first MDU Wally install using DPH42's. It's a nightmare as the system is very unstable. I'm having an terrible time getting all sats. sometimes it works and sometimes not. There is no pattern. I'm 5 days into a 32 Wally install and I have 1 TV working. I'm going to switch to DPP44s as they are much more stable.

Any help anyone?

What I've learned about Wallys on 42 switches is that you cannot run the check switches simultaneously. You have to do 1 at a time. It's silly