Long cable run between Dish LNBF and Hopper 3

[southsound]

We live in the middle of a wooded area in the lower Puget Sound of Washington State. About 10 years ago I was able to use my Dish antenna on a pole in the ground. Nearly 5 years ago we moved the Dish to a mount on the house because of tree growth blocking the old location. The problem trees are not on our property. Lately, whenever there was any amount of wind, we would have pretty severe signal loss. I had Dish come out and had the most wonderful technician remount my Dish on the side of our barn where he feels I will be safe from tree growth for the next 10 or so years. The install was pretty unconventional - the run from our receiver to the Dish is about 270'. He installed a DPP44 at the LNBF then the RG6 runs 60' to the Power Inserter at the corner of the barn. The cable then runs in conduit 210' to the house and the Hopper 3. Signal strength is great with no drop outs.

I would leave things as they are but we sometimes have power outages that last a couple of days. The house has a generator transfer so I can run the Hopper 3 and our TVs - but the barn is on a circuit that will be dead during a power outage. If I could move the Power Inserter to the house next to the receiver, I could power it like I do the rest of the house. My question is whether or not I can move the Power Inserter or if it would provide too little power to the DPP44 with a total run of 270' instead of the current 60'.

Experiences and recommendations welcome.

 

[ethanlerma]

Well, the guide for the DPH42, which is the switch used for the H3, states that there should only be 200ft of rg6 between the LNBF and furthest receiver, and you are way past that. It doesn’t say anything regarding power specifically, and while you can run power and satellite signal over the same cable (all you would need to do is swap the two outputs on the switch and place the power inserter somewhere in the house between the H3 and the run to the barn) I have a feeling power won’t be able to reach as far as signal can. Then again I could be wrong.

Here is the manual for the DPH42 in case your interested https://www.solidsignal.com/Manuals/DPH42_Installation.pdf

Edit: Reread your post, it seems that the power inserter and Hopper are already on the same port, so just placing a barrel connector in the barn where the inserter is and splicing it inside the house would be enough to test it, if it’s even feasible.

 

[rip77]

We live in the middle of a wooded area in the lower Puget Sound of Washington State. About 10 years ago I was able to use my Dish antenna on a pole in the ground. Nearly 5 years ago we moved the Dish to a mount on the house because of tree growth blocking the old location. The problem trees are not on our property. Lately, whenever there was any amount of wind, we would have pretty severe signal loss. I had Dish come out and had the most wonderful technician remount my Dish on the side of our barn where he feels I will be safe from tree growth for the next 10 or so years. The install was pretty unconventional - the run from our receiver to the Dish is about 270'. He installed a DPP44 at the LNBF then the RG6 runs 60' to the Power Inserter at the corner of the barn. The cable then runs in conduit 210' to the house and the Hopper 3. Signal strength is great with no drop outs.

I would leave things as they are but we sometimes have power outages that last a couple of days. The house has a generator transfer so I can run the Hopper 3 and our TVs - but the barn is on a circuit that will be dead during a power outage. If I could move the Power Inserter to the house next to the receiver, I could power it like I do the rest of the house. My question is whether or not I can move the Power Inserter or if it would provide too little power to the DPP44 with a total run of 270' instead of the current 60'.

Experiences and recommendations welcome.

Just give it a try to see what happens, it won't hurt any equipment. Just be sure to have it on the correct feed on the switch to take the power inserter.

Also, I hope you accidentally referred to it as a DPP44, as if your Hopper 3 is somehow working on this, it won't be getting all of it's tuners.

DPH42 should be the only switched used on the Hopper 3.

I am a little confused though, do you know why the technician used a switch rather than a hub?

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[the mack]

I would use rg11 coax or at the least solid copper rg6 to help eliminate possible voltage drop.
That being said it may work fine as is because of the switch having a separate power source from the receiver.

 

[Bobby]

Just give it a try to see what happens, it won't hurt any equipment. Just be sure to have it on the correct feed on the switch to take the power inserter.

Also, I hope you accidentally referred to it as a DPP44, as if your Hopper 3 is somehow working on this, it won't be getting all of it's tuners.

DPH42 should be the only switched used on the Hopper 3.

I am a little confused though, do you know why the technician used a switch rather than a hub?

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You would use both the 42 switch and the hub. If you have mixed DP dishes with a Hopper 3 system the 42 switch will allow you to have dishes facing different satellites and that provides the hybrid side required. Next you wire that output of the 42 switch to the hub just as you the output of a hybrid LNB.

 

[rip77]

You would use both the 42 switch and the hub. If you have mixed DP dishes with a Hopper 3 system the 42 switch will allow you to have dishes facing different satellites and that provides the hybrid side required. Next you wire that output of the 42 switch to the hub just as you the output of a hybrid LNB.

I'm just confused because it seems like it's only one dish, and I can't imagine why the LNB on it wouldn't be Hybrid to begin with.

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[Bobby]

I'm just confused because it seems like it's only one dish, and I can't imagine why the LNB on it wouldn't be Hybrid to begin with.

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Maybe the existing LNB was hard to get at and he elected to use the 42 switch instead. Or, he didn't have a hybrid LNB on the truck....

 

[rip77]

Maybe the existing LNB was hard to get at and he elected to use the 42 switch instead. Or, he didn't have a hybrid LNB on the truck....

It looks like he relocated the dish when the switch was installed, I suppose he may not have had a Hybrid LNB but that really should be something to be stocked up on at all times, although I guess things happen

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[NYDutch]

It looks like he relocated the dish when the switch was installed, I suppose he may not have had a Hybrid LNB but that really should be something to be stocked up on at all times, although I guess things happen

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The Power inserter for the DPH42 at the 60' point should eliminate any voltage drop issues on the 210' run from the H3.

 

[ethanlerma]

Nah, I'm pretty sure it was to overcome the distance limitation. A switch inserter provides more power that the H3 can (2A vs 1.4A) and being installed within 60ft of the Dish would ensure the LNBF's are getting enough power.

Edit: NYDutch beat me to the punch

 

[NYDutch]

Maybe the best way to overcome the power outage issue would be to run a direct burial 120-volt supply from the house to the power inserter. Just make sure the outlet is clearly labeled where the controlling breaker is located.

 

[southsound]

First off, I want to thank ethanlerma and others for your kind and insightful replies. And yes, I have a DPH42 - not a DPP44. Not sure how I could mistake the two except that it was dusk when I checked it. All other information was correct. I did as many suggested and finally found a time when no one was using the Dish, either for watching or recording so I would have time to test things thoroughly. The results were mixed. Signal strength may have dropped a couple of points but was still pretty acceptable. 129 = 44, 110 = 70, 110 = 71. Picture seemed fine on all channels but switching between channels seemed slower than normal. Might just be my perception. Then about 20 minutes into testing I got a complete signal failure message.

My guess is that there is just too much voltage drop for the DPH42 to work reliably. I went back to the original configuration with the total signal length of 270' and the power inserter at 60' from the DPH42. In the event of a prolonged power outage I can always switch things back knowing that it may not be reliable. It's not worth running another underground circuit. The two feeds that run the barn are both 60A (1 isolated for audio equipment) so I don't want to run them through the generator transfer switch. I really appreciate all the help.

 

[NYDutch]

If you have enough power outages in the 2-3 hour maximum range, a good UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) for the power inserter might get you through those given the relatively low draw of the inserter.

 

[navychop]

If you have enough power outages in the 2-3 hour maximum range, a good UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) for the power inserter might get you through those given the relatively low draw of the inserter.

QFT!!!

Beat me to it.

 

[southsound]

Thanks, Dutch. I thought about either using a UPS or an inverter but I don't even bring out the generator for an outage lasting only 2-3 hours. Did I mention we're rural? We don't lose power often but when we do it can be for several days. Usually the result of a vehicle or a tree taking down a pole or two. Good news is that our PUD has a great app that tells us what to expect when the lights go off.

 

[navychop]

tells us what to expect when the lights go off.

That it’ll get dark?

 

[NYDutch]

Thanks, Dutch. I thought about either using a UPS or an inverter but I don't even bring out the generator for an outage lasting only 2-3 hours. Did I mention we're rural? We don't lose power often but when we do it can be for several days. Usually the result of a vehicle or a tree taking down a pole or two. Good news is that our PUD has a great app that tells us what to expect when the lights go off.

At our previous mountain top home in the Adirondacks, we were the only house on a three mile stretch of power lines through the forest. 3-4 day outages, particularly in the winter, weren't uncommon. We had a manually started generator large enough to support our critical household functions, but not much more. The best thing that happened to us though, was when we were approached to lease a small section of our land for a cell and public service radio tower. As part of the contract, our house was wired to the automatic generator that served the tower. That cut our outages down to about 5 minutes, with our own UPS's keeping our C-band satellite and computer systems online in between.

 

[southsound]

What a wonderful option. We have 13 acres on an island that has really poor cell service. None of the carriers are good but we approached Verizon to offer them a great spot in nearly the exact center of the island. That was 15 years ago and we still are waiting for any interest.

 

[NYDutch]

What a wonderful option. We have 13 acres on an island that has really poor cell service. None of the carriers are good but we approached Verizon to offer them a great spot in nearly the exact center of the island. That was 15 years ago and we still are waiting for any interest.

We were contacted by a tower company, not a cell service company. They did several aerial surveys over about 3 months to determine the best location and optimum tower height before approaching us. Then there were delays for FAA and zoning approvals. From first contact to completion, the tower build took about 18 months.

 

[navychop]

Yes. Southsound, maybe you should contact a tower company. Or T-Mobile.

Then again, StarLink is coming online.