Food for Thought - BluRay Catching up to HD-DVD?

[JoeSp]

This is compiled from hometheaterhifi.com:

November reviews, 25 titles for each, out of 5 stars:

Picture Quality:

Blu-ray: 100 == 4.00 avg.
HD DVD: 92.5 == 3.70 avg.

Audio Quality:

Blu-ray: 104.5 == 4.19 avg.
HD DVD: 90.5 == 3.62 avg.

And from Highdefdigest looking at the latest 30 titles for each:

Picture Quality:

Blu-ray: 118 = 3.93 average
HD DVD: 114 = 3.8 average

Audio Quality:

Blu-ray: 112.5 = 3.75 average
HD DVD: 105.5 = 3.51 average

And from Hometheatre spot last 30 reviews of each format:

Picture Quality:

Blu-ray: 116 = 3.87
HD DVD: 114 = 3.80

Audio Quality:

Blu-ray: 127 = 4.23
HD DVD: 112.5 = 3.75

I would like to thank Gary for compiling the above numbers. Seems like BluRay has been doing better lately, huh?

 

[teamerickson]

What you really need to know is their rating system. Are they rated against each other or aginst the best looking disc of the specific format? I think they are rated against the best of their own format, not against each other. Some of the early Blue-ray, that was ripped for quality, seemed to get decent ratings. But the HD DVD, with better picture, somtimes got a lower rating. So I don't think they are rated against each other.

Anyways, everyone knows that HD DVD has the best picture quality.

 

[kyblue]

All I can say is MY OWN EYES tell me HD DVD hands down, no contest!

 

[JoeSp]

Almost every HD-DVD and BluRay review that I have read the reviewer has compared against their DVD counterpart not other HD-DVD titles or BluRay titles. Most reviewers are asking the question, does the high def transfer to HD-DVD and/or BluRay improve on the latest DVD release of that movie. If so, how and how much. They ask the same thing when rating the Audio. Now, when the same title comes out on both HD formats some reviewers will compare. I will elaborate later.

We are not back in July and August anymore guys. I have posted many times on my opinion (shared by many professional reviewers) that the Sammy BluRay player was defective and at fault. In November the Panasonic BluRay player and the PS3 hit the market and guess what, BluRay's PQ ratings improved dramatically. Some reviewers have even gone back on some of their earlier reviews of BluRay titles and have found that most of the PQ problems reported were as a result of the Samsung player. This does not mean that there were no crappy BluRay conversions. The first releases by Sony Pictures should of never happened. But, don't just take my word, do a little research yourself and read some of the latest reviews of BluRay titles.

Now, this is not a statement that BluRay is better then HD-DVD. It is simply that the playing field has leveled out. PQ and Audio is pretty much the same. And in the last few weeks the PQ of a title that comes out on both HD-DVD and BluRay has basically been the same -- in most instances the reviewers could tell no differance. Audio is a differant story. Good example is that Superman Returns on HD-DVD has DolbyTrue HD while the BluRay title ,a 50gb disc, only provided for Dolby 5.1 (at its highest output rate) but still no DolbyTrueHD. Why Warner selected to do this when there was plenty of room on the disc for the lossless codec is a question I would like someone to answer.

But now on most BluRay titles there is either PCM 5.1 uncompressed or DTS HD Master. However DolbyTrueHD has been missing, this is still where HD-DVD has succeeded for the most part but usually the BluRay titles have had the better sound.

And here is why I would like to see both formats succeed. This would force both camps to demand the best PQ and Audio for their respective formats. At some point I also expect prices to start falling on new releases (around next summer) and we the consumers should be the recepiants of these developements.

Now, I know that the HD-DVD fans have enjoyed the last 5 months but the bloom is off the rose now. New BluRay movies are coming out that are doing playback at over 24mbits and the result has been better looking movies. HD-DVD might have enjoyed better PQ before but that is now over. Both formats are equal right now. Also HD-DVD has enjoyed the low cost player -- that is over now with the release of the 20gb PS3. And don't be bringing up M$ HD-DVD drive. You have to have a 360 to use the drive and that is not cheaper than the PS3 20gb nor the Toshiba Xa-1. They all cost pretty much the same.

So here we are in December, looking at Christmas, and the High Def DVD formats are now on equal footing. By the format that has the movies you want to watch and enjoy. As I have heard said many times "The Future Begins Now!"

 

[GeorgeLV]

Ah, the Cavuto mark...

Just add a question mark to your statement and you're fair and balanced.

The methodology is absurd. You're not comparing the same titles. The 25 latest Blu-ray titles are stacked with CGI animated fare like "The Wild" and special effects films like "Fantastic Four". The 25 latest HD-DVD titles are stacked with classics like "Casablanca" (1942), "Mutiny on the Bounty" (1962), and "Forbidden Planet" (1956). Is it any surprise that when you throw out ceteris paribus you can get any result you want?

 

[BlackHitachi]

All I can say is MY OWN EYES tell me HD DVD hands down, no contest!

This is so TRUE!! Believe my i wish blu ray was as good but not yet!!

 

[CochiseGuy]

So here we are in December, looking at Christmas, and the High Def DVD formats are now on equal footing. By the format that has the movies you want to watch and enjoy. As I have heard said many times "The Future Begins Now!"

Well, first of all, considering that this time last year most Home Theater Professionals & Enthusiasts were speculating that HD DVD was "Dead on Arrival", questioning if Toshiba would even follow through with a launch, it's been a remarkable year for HD DVD. Although I haven't seen a BR disk since May - when I insulted a BB employee by laughing at the store's demo of House of Flying "Artifacts" (Daggers) - I do read reviews and concede with the new players & BR disk transfers that Blu-Ray may be "catching up to HD DVD". But, again, since it wasn't even supposed to be a contest, I don't think that's a ringing edorsement.

As long as BR players cost 2-3 times as much as HD DVD players and the BR consortium refuses to permit a dual/universal player, I hope both formats DON'T succeed. My Christmas wish (besides World Peace) is that Disney and Lionsgate go dual format and let the consumer decide. (I don't care about Fox & Sony - I stopped buying their DVD's years ago because of crappy quality).

 

[teamerickson]

Almost every HD-DVD and BluRay review that I have read the reviewer has compared against their DVD counterpart not other HD-DVD titles or BluRay titles. Most reviewers are asking the question, does the high def transfer to HD-DVD and/or BluRay improve on the latest DVD release of that movie. If so, how and how much. They ask the same thing when rating the Audio. Now, when the same title comes out on both HD formats some reviewers will compare. I will elaborate later.

So why, would you say that Blue ray is catching up to HD DVD. It probably should say Blue-ray is finaly better than standard DVD!

The original post is misleading and you are turning almost everyone of your posts into HD DVD vs. Blue Ray.

 

[JoeSp]

Actually, PQ on BluRay titles releasing now is equal to PQ on HD-DVDs releasing right now. I am not refering to titles already released. I am not interested in many titles that were released earlier. However, since I am now buying my movies in a HD format, I am interested in how those movies are looking now. And BluRay PQ has improved and has matched the HD-DVD PQ results. Same titles now being released on both formats are getting the same marks-period.

The only differance is on Audio Quality. Sometimes HD-DVD has the better sound track and sometimes the BluRay has the better sound track. So to me, today with new movies releasing on both BluRay and HD-DVD formats the PQ is basically the same. No amount of cajoling will return the market to July-September 2006 when the HD-DVD camp was producing great looking movies and the BluRay camp was offering up a defective player and some very badly converted movies for early release. (Sony has even appologized for The Fifth Element BluRay release and has promised a 50gb version to make ammends soon) . Going back to that market is not going to happen. And as Disney and Fox and Century21 and Sony Pictures(if they start producing good reproductions) start releasing their titles the number of good movies on BluRay with great PQ is going up. Now if we can just get Warner to stop shorting their BluRay release on the audio side of the equation.

As for this being BluRay vs HD-DVD--- you are making it that way by denying that BluRay PQ has improved to the point of being even with HD-DVD. You want to believe that BluRay cannot do the same PQ as HD-DVD however in the last 5 titles that were released on both formats all reviewers stated the same - no noticable differances period. So as I said before -- buy the player for the format that has the movies you want to watch and enjoy. And this is creating a 'vs' situation how? It is only there because the BluRay camp has significantly more studios in their corner for movie production and early HD-DVD adopters do not want to be left holding the bag. Well, I have also stated that I want both formats to succeed. I believe there is enough market for both to succeed and that competition will bring better products and better prices. How does that drive the 'vs' situation?

I think I was right earlier. I am not driving the 'vs' -- HD-DVD adopters are. I post something that is positive for the BluRay Format and you guys come out of your closets like I am taking away all of your candy. I am not doing that, but I also am not going to let you slight the BluRay Format when they have been making good strides in providing a good product just like the HD-DVD Format has been doing.
New visiters here should be able to get good information about both formats and make up their minds for themselves without prejudice. My providing information about the BluRay product equaling the very fine HD-DVD product out there should not cause anyone here any problems -- unless you fear that HD-DVD will fail. Can't see that happening if M$ is backing them but maybe you can. If so, you are stating your fears when you attack a product that has been steadily improving.

You are right the title for this should not of been 'catching up' it should of been 'caught up'! Thank you for pointing this out.

 

[teamerickson]

Joesp (professional poster), I'm sure most of us would enjoy shorter, more to the point posts. I bet your response will be "but I'm just trying to keep all parties informed with information that is available." Fair enough.

I do not deny that the Blue ray supporters have started to make better movies (It took them long enough).

Your original post leads to the conclusion that Blue ray appears to be getting better ratings against HD DVD. You fail to mention that most are rated on different movies, and your belief that each format is rated against the SD DVD version and not each HD format. That's pretty important for your argument. That's why I think it's misleading.

I may buy Blue ray when they can match or excede HD DVD and the price becomes better. Until such a time, I will continue to sing the praises of the format that really is "Beyond High Defintion."

Please keep responses under 2000 words.

 

[BlackHitachi]

HD DVD - Cooler then a cucumber in a bowl of hot sauce!

MM MMMM and i LOVE Hot SAUCE! Very good post and very true. HD DVD:

 

[BobMurdoch]

At Best Buy last week in Brick, NJ, they were out of MI:III on HD DVD and Superman Returns on HD DVD. About a dozen copies were still there for both on BluRay. SOMEONE scooped them up on HD DVD, while the BluRay is gathering dust. Blame it on the hardware shortfall, but HD DVD owns this season at least from a sales standpoint.

Now we just watch and see if they pull a Sirius and start catching up a year from now.....

 

[JoeSp]

The BB in Raleigh that I shop at had no Superman Returns in BluRay and about 5 in HD-DVD the third day the title was out. I suspect the reasoning is because there were more of the HD-DVD to begin with. And since I don't work for BB I do not have the inside track as to the numbers game so I do not know that reasoning is definately true.

As to my title 'BluRay Catching up to HD-DVD?' the reasoning is that when HD-DVD launched in June the player had several problems. Toshiba responded reasonably fast and start updating the software to improve on those problems. Universal has to be given a big HAND as they did not mess around and produced some very nice titles right out of the gate. As they were the only Big Studio backing HD-DVD they wanted to come out swinging and they did.

BluRay on the other had was not ready, Samsung delivered a defective player, Sony delivered some badly converted movies and BluRay was off on its face. It has taken 4 months for BluRay to start to show the promise of great PQ and sound. There are two excellant BluRay players out right now (Panasonic and the PS3) and movie studios using the 50gb discs are now giving us top notch HD movies. And they have also started using other codecs to improve the picture and audio quality.

I am interested in how a higher bit rate picture will play into the HD sceen. BluRay has the ablility to have much higher bitrates then HD-DVD. I am interested in seeing if this will really improve on the PQ. Right now I feel that someone looking at getting into the HD movie viewing really does have two choices and the movies one wants to watch is what I believe will start driving the market now. Also, first camp to a player under $300 is also going to make a big impression on this emerging market.

This post is about today - not yesterday- and tomorrow. My opinion is that today HD-DVD and BluRay are on an even keel. Either one will make the user happy and satisfied with their HDTV and HD movie viewing. It will now come down to what movies we want to watch and what format they are on. That is what will start driving hardware sales because if it does not then we will not have to worry about either format -- they will not be around for very long.