I told you so... HD-DVD vs bluray

[skottey]

Missing your point? How...
You are complaining about the BD prices, and I gave you a place where you could buy it for cheap.
You were speaking about Best Buy. No matter if things are on sale or not, Best Buy always had the highest price out there.

My point is the weekly sales have dried up since the war ended. You don't walk down the aisle and see Transporter on bluray on sale for $16.99 on one side anymore and 2001 on HD-DVD on sale for $17.99 anymore. Transporter is now $24.99 or $29.99 EVERY WEEK. If you are wanting to get it for less, too bad. It used to be you could be patient and it would rotate through a sale. Now that is just Best Buy.

Regarding online stores- I have dozens of bluray movies on my Amazon wish list and they are not dropping in price. Amazon does have some sales but not the way brick and mortar establishments do. Amazon is way more of a transparent supply and demand systematic pricing structure. I have a few TV series on DVD that I have literally watched their prices drop from say $39 to $31 each in the matter of hours and then as I thought, "wow, they have finally come down some," and then the price goes back up. I have no problem with this. If I am a flea market vendor and have 500 pairs of sunglasses I may offer buy one get one free, but if I am down to 40 pair, I may not. Either way, I project going home with a certain number of pairs to hold over for next week, taking into consideration my incoming supply in the next few days.

These prices, including promotional sales, are heavily pushed from the back end. Best Buy and Amazon or anybody else isn't going to take a loss on this stuff. Sony isn't taking a loss and wouldn't be taking a loss with these sales or for that matter, if they lowered the prices to $19.99, let's say. They'd sell more at a lower price.

Lastly, while I own a computer technology business and do a lot of buying and referring for customers of computers and peripherals, I agree that for computers, TVs, and just about any other major electronics purchase, Best Buy is horribly priced. BUT, Best Buy is the best brick and mortar place to go buy movies, games, or CDs, especially on the Tuesday they are released. If I want a movie or game the Tuesday it comes out, I have to pick it up locally. By the time I order online, I am either going to pay a crapload for shipping or get it nowhere near the Tuesday it comes out. They used to ship early and you would sometimes get it before the Tuesday it comes out, but the manufacturers have largely put an end to that process. The most you can hope for is an overnight and getting it the next day. But why do that? If you HAVE to have it right away you pick it up locally, and Best Buy is your best option (at least in my town.)

From what I have heard, I wish I had a Frys here.

 

[Zookster]

I keep having this problem with everyone saying that LD was a losing format. It was a successful niche format and made Pioneer a nice pile of money, along with bringing them into the forefront as a producer of videophile displays and sources. Before LD, Pioneer sold low to mid-market audio gear.

LD lasted 20 years, was supported by all studios, had virtually all major films released in the format, introduced special editions, widescreen releases, deleted scenes, commentary tracks, etc, etc. It was also at the center of the home theater revolution. People didn't put up those big screens to show VHS.

It was the preferred format of videophiles, and Hollywood insiders throughout the '80s and most of the '90s.

BD moving into an upscale niche strategy is definitely viable. It could co-exist with DVD for years to come. It definitely fits better with DVD than LD did with VHS.

And when adjusted for today's inflation, I'm sure the price of a BD player is much cheaper than an LD... not to mention disc prices. And these prices will only come down. BD/DVD compatibility is key and by combining an upconverter with a BD drive, CE manufacturers will make BD players an integral part of the HTS for years to come.

 

[teamerickson]

Well, of course. BUT that does not mean they could not make it more reasonably priced, and thus sell more players, and more movies, and thus, more profit.

I'm all for cheaply priced, good products. What we don't know is if they are maximizing there marginal revenue product. If they are, then why make more and end up making less profit? Somtimes selling more units doesn't make more profit. It depends on the marginal revenue product.

 

[allargon]

It's amazing what no competitor plus a contract for subsidized discs ($1 vs. $4) can do. Lionsgate is making a whopping $21/disc. No wonder they didn't want to go format neutral.

Blu-ray Spells Profits For Lionsgate

Blu-ray Spells Profits For Lionsgate
The high-def format is generating more per unit sale.
By Swanni
Washington, D.C. (April 4, 2008) -- Do you ever wonder why the studios are so anxious to promote Blu-ray as a replacement for the standard DVD?

The Hollywood Reporter writes today that Lionsgate Entertainment is now making $15 in profit for every sale of an older Blu-ray disc title -- and $21 for new releases like War.

Blu-ray discs are priced higher than standard-def DVDs, enabling the studios to generate more in profits. Some new titles cost around $30 at retail, compared to half that for the standard-def DVD release.

And SMH Capital analyst David Miller tells THR that Lionsgate sold an additional 1.3 million Blu-ray discs over his projections following Toshiba's announcement that it was exiting the HD DVD business.

That corresponds with other estimates that Blu-ray sales have been surging since Toshiba ended the high-def format war.

Miller has now raised his fourth-quarter revenue projection for Lionsgate from $400 million to $419 million.

 

[Zookster]

It's amazing what no competitor plus a contract for subsidized discs ($1 vs. $4) can do. Lionsgate is making a whopping $21/disc. No wonder they didn't want to go format neutral.

Blu-ray Spells Profits For Lionsgate

Good find. Apparently the higher prices decried by the OP aren't hurting sales, though as many have mentioned here at what price point could they make even more profit through higher volume of sales. Did they find it at $25-$35. Let's hope not, though as long as the majority of people are so anxious to get their hands on the latest release at those prices, they'll see no need to lower them.

 

[JoeSp]

Here's what I think: if Toshiba could sell HD players for under $200, I refuse to believe that SONY can't do the same with BD. It just doesn't want to. When DVD players came out they were brand-new technology. Can we really say the same with BD or HD DVD? Sure, new codecs, larger capacities, different lasers. But from the economic standpoint, I think that there is no reason for the prices to remain so high.

Here is the fallacy with your thinking process -- there is NO MORE HD-DVD. Toshiba not only lost the war they lost close to 1 billion dollars!! If you knew anything about business you would know that Toshiba could not sell those players for $200 or else they would of not lost that much money. Gee, some folks think that losing money is the way to grow a business? Eventually you have to make a profit and Toshiba's way of doing things doomed them from day ONE.

 

[JoeSp]

What irks me about Sony is that aside from my whole competition argument, I honestly believe they have kept the price of players artificially high, leaving the PS3 as the cheapest player intentionally. Many people bought a PS3 for bluray playback with no intention of really playing their games. I bought a PS3 as a bluray player, and guess what, now I am buying a few games here and there. Nowhere near the level of game buying I do for Xbox360, but I have been buying PS3 exclusives like Uncharted. If it wasn't for bluray and the fact that my cheapest buying option of a player was PS3, I would never have otherwise bought a PS3. Sony is the winner in all this. But I still don't think they are going to catch up to wii or Xbox360 in the number of units in US homes. They have however sold more units than they otherwise would have if it wasn't for the fact that they are the cheapest bluray player. They are going to ride that gravy train as long as they can.

You are darn right that they could sell those players sub-$200. They should but won't for a while. But I am more concerned with the media cost. It will take far longer to drop. I guess renters don't care about media cost, but I am a collector. I like to own my media.

Excuse me?!? There are plenty of BD players under the $399 price tag of the cheapest PS3. Where the heck do you shop? And if you think you can lose $300 a player and stay in business like Toshiba why don't you step up and start manufacturing HD-DVD players for $200 right now? I am sure Toshiba would love to have you do that for them.

 

[JoeSp]

Okay, how many of you really passed your economics class in college? Please be honest. In the current world ecconomy BD prices are inline with where BD is in the timeline of its life with the consumer compared to DVD was at the same time with the consumer.

Maybe a few of you have forgotten how expensive DVD players were in the early years (and how many bugs there were back then) and of the prices of DVD movies when they first hit the market. Heck, I waited 3 years for the Criterion version of The Rock to come off its $34.99 price tag at BB ($28 at Amazon) and now I can buy the BD version (in HD!) for less then $22 most places outside of BB!

With Toshiba and M$ now firmily in the BD camp you can expect the normal pricing structure from competition to drive down prices in a normal new product cycle. By XMAS 2009 BD players will be down to mass market prices (maybe sooner) and the price of those movies will eventually start dropping to more reasonable prices (under $25 for non-special editions). And since most homes will be having a digital signal by the middle of next year and those who can afford it will be moving on to HD sets you can expect that by XMAS of 2009 when Joe6Pack is looking to move into HD the prices of the BD players will be to his liking along with the prices of the movies.

I think what has happened is that Toshiba while LOOSING 900 MILLION DOLLARS trying to push HD-DVD has totally screwed-up the reality of the cost to bring HD to the consumer. You guys need to forget about HD-DVD and the debacle that was the pricing of the Toshiba HD-DVD players to the consumer. Manufacturers are in business to make money and I bet that right now Toshiba's stock holders would like to be able to forget about that HD-DVD boondoogle and move onto some profiting in a BD player!

 

[diogen]

With Toshiba and M$ now firmily in the BD camp...

Friday night entertainment at its best...

Diogen.

 

[teamerickson]

Here is the fallacy with your thinking process -- there is NO MORE HD-DVD. Toshiba not only lost the war they lost close to 1 billion dollars!! If you knew anything about business you would know that Toshiba could not sell those players for $200 or else they would of not lost that much money. Gee, some folks think that losing money is the way to grow a business? Eventually you have to make a profit and Toshiba's way of doing things doomed them from day ONE.

Didn't Sony's gaming division lose over 1 billion recently? I guess Sony's way of winning the format war was to lose the most.

 

[teachsac]

Excuse me?!? There are plenty of BD players under the $399 price tag of the cheapest PS3. Where the heck do you shop?

Really ? There is not one new BD player on Amazon, BB, or CC under $399. A couple used and refurbed 1.0's on Amazon.

S~

 

[tnsprin]

Really ? There is not one new BD player on Amazon, BB, or CC under $399. A couple used and refurbed 1.0's on Amazon.

S~

Not much under but at amazon
Sony BDP-S300 1080p Blu-ray Disc Player


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


List Price: $499.99
Price: $388.75 Free Shipping

There are some others also under 399. Expect to see more as the new models previously announced start to come out.

 

[teachsac]

Not much under but at amazon
Sony BDP-S300 1080p Blu-ray Disc Player


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


List Price: $499.99
Price: $388.75 Free Shipping

There are some others also under 399. Expect to see more as the new models previously announced start to come out.

Shipping within 1-2 months. Doubt that one will be seen again. If you click on the buying options for all the others, none are new under $399.

S~

 

[nonrev]

Okay, how many of you really passed your economics class in college? Please be honest. In the current world ecconomy BD prices are inline with where BD is in the timeline of its life with the consumer compared to DVD was at the same time with the consumer.

Maybe a few of you have forgotten how expensive DVD players were in the early years (and how many bugs there were back then) and of the prices of DVD movies when they first hit the market. Heck, I waited 3 years for the Criterion version of The Rock to come off its $34.99 price tag at BB ($28 at Amazon) and now I can buy the BD version (in HD!) for less then $22 most places outside of BB!

With Toshiba and M$ now firmily in the BD camp you can expect the normal pricing structure from competition to drive down prices in a normal new product cycle. By XMAS 2009 BD players will be down to mass market prices (maybe sooner) and the price of those movies will eventually start dropping to more reasonable prices (under $25 for non-special editions). And since most homes will be having a digital signal by the middle of next year and those who can afford it will be moving on to HD sets you can expect that by XMAS of 2009 when Joe6Pack is looking to move into HD the prices of the BD players will be to his liking along with the prices of the movies.

I think what has happened is that Toshiba while LOOSING 900 MILLION DOLLARS trying to push HD-DVD has totally screwed-up the reality of the cost to bring HD to the consumer. You guys need to forget about HD-DVD and the debacle that was the pricing of the Toshiba HD-DVD players to the consumer. Manufacturers are in business to make money and I bet that right now Toshiba's stock holders would like to be able to forget about that HD-DVD boondoogle and move onto some profiting in a BD player!

If BD is so profitable why are Samsung and LG floundering in their support? Wasn't Sammy the first out the gate? Heck other then Sony does any of the other manufacturers even have 50,000 units sold?
Samsung and LG Cautious About The Blu - RED STATE, BLUE STATE - Blog on Video Business Online

 

[skottey]

Excuse me?!? There are plenty of BD players under the $399 price tag of the cheapest PS3. Where the heck do you shop? And if you think you can lose $300 a player and stay in business like Toshiba why don't you step up and start manufacturing HD-DVD players for $200 right now? I am sure Toshiba would love to have you do that for them.

No there are not. There are a few crappy models on Amazon for the high $300s right now. Most are above $400-$500 new and above the cost of a PS3.

Don't state your "facts" without proof. Just do an amazon search and see for yourself. PS3 is still the cheapest bet. And don't forget the 1.0-2.0 profiles. Those 1 or 2 sub $400 (high $300) players won't support profile 2.0, the PS3 WILL.

You are annoying me now Mr. Know-it-all!

 

[skottey]

Okay, how many of you really passed your economics class in college? Please be honest. In the current world ecconomy BD prices are inline with where BD is in the timeline of its life with the consumer compared to DVD was at the same time with the consumer.

Maybe a few of you have forgotten how expensive DVD players were in the early years (and how many bugs there were back then) and of the prices of DVD movies when they first hit the market. Heck, I waited 3 years for the Criterion version of The Rock to come off its $34.99 price tag at BB ($28 at Amazon) and now I can buy the BD version (in HD!) for less then $22 most places outside of BB!

With Toshiba and M$ now firmily in the BD camp you can expect the normal pricing structure from competition to drive down prices in a normal new product cycle. By XMAS 2009 BD players will be down to mass market prices (maybe sooner) and the price of those movies will eventually start dropping to more reasonable prices (under $25 for non-special editions). And since most homes will be having a digital signal by the middle of next year and those who can afford it will be moving on to HD sets you can expect that by XMAS of 2009 when Joe6Pack is looking to move into HD the prices of the BD players will be to his liking along with the prices of the movies.

I think what has happened is that Toshiba while LOOSING 900 MILLION DOLLARS trying to push HD-DVD has totally screwed-up the reality of the cost to bring HD to the consumer. You guys need to forget about HD-DVD and the debacle that was the pricing of the Toshiba HD-DVD players to the consumer. Manufacturers are in business to make money and I bet that right now Toshiba's stock holders would like to be able to forget about that HD-DVD boondoogle and move onto some profiting in a BD player!

bluray Fanboy... nice icon!

 

[skottey]

Didn't Sony's gaming division lose over 1 billion recently? I guess Sony's way of winning the format war was to lose the most.

They are bleeding badly with the PS3...... don't you find it strange the PS2 is still on the market and has a bigger rack of games than the PS3. MS did away with Xbox real quick after the release of the 360.

Anything Sony gains with bluray is up in smoke with PS3.

I own a PS3 and two Xbox 360's. The 360 blows the PS3 away.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Typical BD fanboy spin. Hardware/ software is to high for mass adoption. If this remains the case, BD will be the second fatality in the format war.

Typical HDDVD fanboy crap.

I just paid $18.95 for I Am Legend on BD off Amazon while the DVD is $15.99, boohoo.

 

[skottey]

Typical HDDVD fanboy crap.

I just paid $18.95 for I Am Legend on BD off Amazon while the DVD is $15.99, boohoo.

Don't get me wrong. I love Amazon, but I have literally waited MONTHS for completion of an order of stuff that is in stock.

A recent order placed March 11th came in just this past Friday April 4th. They purposely take their time on those orders where you take advantage of free shipping. If you don't take advantage of free shipping, you have just blown your savings and the reason you ordered from Amazon in the first place.

 

[r.jones1116]

Typical HDDVD fanboy crap.

I just paid $18.95 for I Am Legend on BD off Amazon while the DVD is $15.99, boohoo.

Good for you. You should have saved your money and rented it. I wouldn't pay $5.00 for that suck a$$ movie.