EchoStar/Dish raises doubts about 'ability to continue as a going concern'

[rvvaquero]

From the link-

By the end of 2023, the total number of broadband subscribers in the U.S. stood at 114.7 million.

Were all of the 114.7 million in households? I would think that quite a few would be industrial, commercial, etc

Just Homes, when you include businesses, brings the number up higher.

Subscribers do not equate to households.

Of course it does, why would you believe it does not?

First, when I bring up the numbers, they are for TV Services, not broadband as yours are.

No. Look at your quote from above. You said broadband. Nebugeater was simply quoting you.

More Business customers will have Broadband only,

Earlier you said most businesses use DSL or the slowest service they could get.

Second, I separate business from residential.

No, you didn't. You said "total broadband subscribers".

So again, households are correct.

I think you just like to argue. At least, quit moving the target when someone makes a point. We can all learn from an informed discussion.

 

[Bruce]

Earlier you said most businesses use DSL or the slowest service they could get.

No, you didn't. You said "total broadband subscribers".

I think you just like to argue. At least, quit moving the target when someone makes a point. We can all learn from an informed discussion.

Getting too many posts mixed up, so I will make it clear-

When I report numbers, I separate Residential from Businesses, both in Broadband and Video.

So, yes, when I write Households, I mean Households.

The number of households in the United States with permanent internet access via broadband continues to rise, reaching over 125 millionhouseholds in 2021. The United States is one of the biggest online markets worldwide.

U.S. households with broadband internet 2021 | Statista

The number of households in the United States with permanent internet access via broadband continues to rise, reaching over 125 million households in 2021.

www.statista.com

JUNE 18, 2024 — Most U.S. households had at least one type of computer (95%) and had a broadband internet subscription (90%) in 2021, an increase from 2018 (92% and 85%, respectively).

Computer and Internet Use in the United States: 2021

Most U.S. households had at least one type of computer (95%) and had a broadband internet subscription (90%) in 2021, an increase from 2018.

www.census.gov

And yes, most Businesses do not have fast speeds, a lot has to do with it being more expensive, if they do, they believe 50 mbps is the fastest they need.

https://www.ooma.com/uploads/pdf/office/smb/us-smb-internet-speed-for-small-business.pdf

I was at the Veterinarian yesterday, I used their wifi, did a speedtest, barely got above 10 mbps.

 

[profish]

Average American doesn't have $600 to drop up front.

only $299 for the next few weeks

 

[AZ.]

only $299 for the next few weeks

Is it still $125 a month? Caps?

 

[navychop]

If you don’t pay your bill, they’ll cap your….

 

[Juan]

Getting too many posts mixed up, so I will make it clear-

When I report numbers, I separate Residential from Businesses, both in Broadband and Video.

So, yes, when I write Households, I mean Households.

The number of households in the United States with permanent internet access via broadband continues to rise, reaching over 125 millionhouseholds in 2021. The United States is one of the biggest online markets worldwide.

U.S. households with broadband internet 2021 | Statista

The number of households in the United States with permanent internet access via broadband continues to rise, reaching over 125 million households in 2021.

www.statista.com

JUNE 18, 2024 — Most U.S. households had at least one type of computer (95%) and had a broadband internet subscription (90%) in 2021, an increase from 2018 (92% and 85%, respectively).

Computer and Internet Use in the United States: 2021

Most U.S. households had at least one type of computer (95%) and had a broadband internet subscription (90%) in 2021, an increase from 2018.

www.census.gov

And yes, most Businesses do not have fast speeds, a lot has to do with it being more expensive, if they do, they believe 50 mbps is the fastest they need.

https://www.ooma.com/uploads/pdf/office/smb/us-smb-internet-speed-for-small-business.pdf

I was at the Veterinarian yesterday, I used their wifi, did a speedtest, barely got above 10 mbps.

Don't forget..a 4g or 5g smart phone is considered one computer with broadband access...but if you use it as a hot spot you only get 5 gig or so

 

[Bruce]

Don't forget..a 4g or 5g smart phone is considered one computer with broadband access...but if you use it as a hot spot you only get 5 gig or so

Thanks for stopping by with the usual type post you always provide, otherwise-

from the link-

permanent internet access via broadband, no where did it say via a Cell Phone.

 

[rvvaquero]

from the link-

permanent internet access via broadband, no where did it say via a Cell Phone.

Come on Bruce. Did you read your own link? Here is a quote from "Other report highlights"...........

“Smartphone-only” households (which accessed the internet only through mobile broadband) were more likely to make $25,000 or less annually, be headed by someone 65 years and over or to have a Black or Hispanic householder.
So, the report did include broadband from people who only have smart phones.

I personally know of four households whose only internet is through their cellphone. I'm sure there are many others in my area. And, yes, it is broadband.

The link you posted is a summary of the Census questionnaire where responders are specifically asked about smart phones and cellular internet.

Here is the Census Questionnaire https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2024/demo/acs-56.pdf

Perhaps the "Reading is Fundamental" response was out of line.

 

[Bruce]

Come on Bruce. Did you read your own link? Here is a quote from "Other report highlights"...........

“Smartphone-only” households (which accessed the internet only through mobile broadband) were more likely to make $25,000 or less annually, be headed by someone 65 years and over or to have a Black or Hispanic householder.
So, the report did include broadband from people who only have smart phones.

I personally know of four households whose only internet is through their cellphone. I'm sure there are many others in my area. And, yes, it is broadband.

The link you posted is a summary of the Census questionnaire where responders are specifically asked about smart phones and cellular internet.

Here is the Census Questionnaire https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2024/demo/acs-56.pdf

Perhaps the "Reading is Fundamental" response was out of line.

from the First link-

Number of U.S. households with broadband internet access 2000-2021​

Published by
Petroc Taylor,
Jan 18, 2024
The number of households in the United States with permanent internet access via broadband continues to rise, reaching over 125 million households in 2021. The United States is one of the biggest online markets worldwide.

nothing about Cell Phones, that is where my response came from.

Second Link-

JUNE 18, 2024 — Most U.S. households had at least one type of computer (95%) and had a broadband internet subscription (90%) in 2021, an increase from 2018 (92% and 85%, respectively).

• “Smartphone-only” households (which accessed the internet only through mobile broadband) were more likely to make $25,000 or less annually, be headed by someone 65 years and over or to have a Black or Hispanic householder.

Where does it show the percentage or even part of the 90%, that could be part of the 10% who do not have broadband.

Broadband is not mobile phone service, is is not considered permanent as the links show.

 

[Noah12]

I know this is a Dishnet topic not the Canadian slot, but I wonder how this will effect Bell. We know Bell is Dishnet hardware. If Dishnet fails so will Bell maybe. We already have only refurbished receivers

 

[rvvaquero]

Broadband is not mobile phone service

The Census Bureau must consider mobile phone service as broadband. You quoted from the links which you provided. If you don't agree with their definition of broadband, then maybe you should not have linked to their website.

“Smartphone-only” households (which accessed the internet only through mobile broadband)

 

[Yespage]

Where does it show the percentage or even part of the 90%, that could be part of the 10% who do not have broadband.

Broadband is not mobile phone service, is is not considered permanent as the links show.

Eleven percent of households accessed the internet only through a cellular data plan for a smartphone or other mobile device instead of a fixed broadband connection. These “smart phone only” households were more likely to make $25,000 or less annually, be headed by someone 65 years and over, or have a Black or Hispanic householder(Figure 3).

My interpretation is that this more represents a low income issue than broadband availability issue.

 

[Bruce]

The Census Bureau must consider mobile phone service as broadband. You quoted from the links which you provided. If you don't agree with their definition of broadband, then maybe you should not have linked to their website.

“Smartphone-only” households (which accessed the internet only through mobile broadband)

I do not care what the Census calls it, Cell Phone usage is not considered broadband by the industry.

How do Americans access the internet?​

Americans can receive fixed broadband[2] through five types of internet access: satellite connection, asymmetric digital subscriber lines or ADSL, cable, fiber, or wireless broadband.

A cellular or mobile connection isn’t considered a fixed broadband internet source by the FCC.

What is reliable broadband and how many Americans have access to it?

According to the FCC’s benchmarks, over 97% of people had access to high-speed internet in 2021.

usafacts.org

 

[rvvaquero]

I do not care what the Census calls it, Cell Phone usage is not considered broadband by the industry.

How do Americans access the internet?​

Americans can receive fixed broadband[2] through five types of internet access: satellite connection, asymmetric digital subscriber lines or ADSL, cable, fiber, or wireless broadband.

A cellular or mobile connection isn’t considered a fixed broadband internet source by the FCC.

What is reliable broadband and how many Americans have access to it?

According to the FCC’s benchmarks, over 97% of people had access to high-speed internet in 2021.

usafacts.org

You provided the Census Bureau link as your source, yet you choose to ignore the data provided there.

Once again, you are providing a link to a source, but cherry-picking the data to suit your definition. In this new link, you chose to ignore the entire text, and dwell on the first paragraph. As you can see, further down they refer to "wireless broadband"as a way to access the internet. Are you moving the goalpost again to only include "fixed broadband"?

You can have the last word. I'm done.

Here is the entire text.

How do Americans access the internet?​

Americans can receive fixed broadband[2] through five types of internet access: satellite connection, asymmetric digital subscriber lines or ADSL, cable, fiber, or wireless broadband.

Satellites can provide broadband internet access although they typically have lower upload and download speeds than other technologies.

Asymmetric digital subscriber lines, also known as ADSL, provide constant connection through existing copper telephone wires.

Cable internet runs through television cable lines, providing a wider range of speeds.

Fiber broadband connectivity runs through special glass cables, making it the fastest technology available to date.

Wireless broadband is typically used in isolated or underserved areas. Households and businesses using wireless technology must be located within 10 miles of an internet access point and have receivers that access the internet without cables. This technology uses a farther-reaching connection than wireless networks used in homes and businesses.

A cellular or mobile connection isn’t considered a fixed broadband internet source by the FCC. In a 2021 survey on internet usage, the National Telecommunications and Information Administration found the number of Americans with a mobile data plan increased from about 64% in 2015 to about 74% in 2021.

 

[Yespage]

I do not care what the Census calls it, Cell Phone usage is not considered broadband by the industry.

Then you need to self-adjust the Questionnaire's results from 90 to 79 percent.

 

[Bruce]

Once again, you are providing a link to a source, but cherry-picking the data to suit your definition. In this new link, you chose to ignore the entire text, and dwell on the first paragraph. As you can see, further down they refer to "wireless broadband"as a way to access the internet. Are you moving the goalpost again to only include "fixed broadband"?

Where did I cherry pick, I included this-

Americans can receive fixed broadband[2] through five types of internet access: satellite connection, asymmetric digital subscriber lines or ADSL, cable, fiber, or wifeless broadband.

Which I know to be the 5G Services.

All I wrote was about Cell Phones not to be considered a fixed broadband service and the FCC agrees-

A cellular or mobile connection isn’t considered a fixed broadband internet source by the FCC.

 

[telstar_1]

If I remember correctly alot of people paid around $500-$600 for Satellite Tv back in the late 90's

Mid-90s. By late 90s they were starting with free "leased" equipment. But in the 80s folks paid significant 4-figures for C-band. In early 80s it ran around 10k, using commercial-grade gear.

 

[profish]

Is it still $125 a month? Caps?

$120 is average--some a bit less or higher no caps no contract

 

[Almighty1]

$120 is average--some a bit less or higher no caps no contract

What speeds and latencies are people actually getting?

 

[Foxbat]

What speeds and latencies are people actually getting?

That’s really difficult to pin down since it varies around the planet depending on your proximity to the Starlink ground stations, the latency from there to where you’re going (SatelliteGuys, of course!), and the number of Starlink satellites above your location at any given time.