EchoStar/Dish raises doubts about 'ability to continue as a going concern'

[Bruce]

The only reason I brought it up is that there are about 30 million small businesses in the US and I'd bet 95+% of them have internet.

Internet yes, but most usually have the slowest speeds they need since they do not have to worry about streaming.

It has been reported over and over, that the majority of Bars and Restaurants need to upgrade, but have not yet.

Again, this is irrelevant, since it has nothing to do with Satellite TV in Rural Locations.

If the majority of rural households did not have broadband, Dish and DirecTV should have a lot more subscribers.

Since there are about 13 Million Satellite TV Subscribers , what do you believe is the Metro/Rural Areas split, I posted 60/40, but I believe it is closer to 70/30.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Tablo works great, no longer has a fee to use the guide and the DVR features, just buy the one unit.

And you can use it in any room, up to four if I remember correctly, as long as the TV’s apps or a Roku type box gets wifi, no more box charges as you get with Traditional Providers.

I am actually amazed that more providers do not get rid of the DVR/Box fees, so to help retain more subscribers.

Services like YTTV does not have a DVR/Box fees, you can use it in 3 different rooms at once, if more then that, $10 more for unlimited .

I bought the 4 tuner Next gen Tablo for my birthday on sale for $119.99. It works even better than my older legacy Tablo I paid for a life time membership. Like the whole interface better and the best part is no longer is the picture compressed like the legacy does. It looks as good as live TV even while it is recorded. Love TABLO.

 

[rvvaquero]

Internet yes, but most usually have the slowest speeds they need since they do not have to worry about streaming.

Really? I would think that they would have whatever the best value is for their needs. Here, Spectrum offers 300 Mbs business broadband for $65.

It has been reported over and over, that the majority of Bars and Restaurants need to upgrade, but have not yet.

I would guess that for every bar or restaurant there are 20 or more doctor's, insurance, used car dealer, etc. All small offices need internet now. Even retail stores need it to access their own websites and to do price comparisons. Those businesses have employees, who also browse the internet on the job. Just ask the participants on this forum.

Again, this is irrelevant, since it has nothing to do with Satellite TV in Rural Locations.

You're the one who introduced the numbers. I'm just trying to understand what they mean and where they came from.

 

[telstar_1]

Yes, I have been saying they could do the best service with Sling TV prices and DISH guides, menus, dvr features, but streaming versions. I think that would be very successful. Because you can already use Air TV to add your ota locals integrated in with the Sling TV guide, so why not make it work with the DISH IP service as well.

Then people who like DISH for the Hopper features could do this with the Streaming version and get it at cheaper prices that Sling Tv offers. You could eventually migrate all your sat customers who want cheaper prices and less fees with the Streaming version and you might actually keep them as customers too. Cut down on receivers and installs and all the rest that costs more money. You could also migrate all existing Sling TV subs to the new DISH IP service. Viola the better service with the best cheapest prices.

The only reason why I left DISH was the extra DVR and Additional receiver fees and the ever increasing programming prices. I would definitely subscribe to a DISH streaming service at Sling Tv prices and additional packs you add as you want.

Perhaps they're afraid of losing too many sat subs to streaming by making it that attractive, leaving DiSH with even fewer of mainly just broadband-desert subs.

 

[Jim5506]

Oh, okay. Not disputing you, just couldn't find a residential number.

In this link, it just says 114.7 million total subscribers without distinguishing between residential or commercial.

U.S. fixed broadband internet subscribers 2023 | Statista

This link says 78% of US households have broadband, but it doesn't have a date so pretty much useless.

Broadband Facts & Stats | NCTA — The Internet & Television Association

The only reason I brought it up is that there are about 30 million small businesses in the US and I'd bet 95+% of them have internet.

This discussion sounds like "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" - most data discussed is irrelevant.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Perhaps they're afraid of losing too many sat subs to streaming by making it that attractive, leaving DiSH with even fewer of mainly just broadband-desert subs.

Maybe but if they want to be around as a TV provider they need to improve their product so people want their service. To do nothing is to stagnant and go down the tubes. I think Satellite was a great product for it's time in the 90s and 2000s but now it is streaming or nothing. Get with the times or die out.

 

[Teehar]

Amazon will probably never be a viable competitor to Starlink. Project Kuiper has only launched 2 prototype satellites and those have already been decommissioned. The only way they're going to be able to start doing regular launches is with SpaceX rockets and Bezos isn't about to ask Elon for help.

well that makes the case for satellite even stronger.when you're out in the sticks there aren't many other options.

 

[Teehar]

Maybe but if they want to be around as a TV provider they need to improve their product so people want their service. To do nothing is to stagnant and go down the tubes. I think Satellite was a great product for it's time in the 90s and 2000s but now it is streaming or nothing. Get with the times or die out.

Try living in areas of the good old USA that don't have adequate internet my friend.Then you would change your mind about streaming or nothing.There are many,many areas that don't have fast,reliable,or affordable internet to stream with.That is the problem.

 

[Teehar]

I bought the 4 tuner Next gen Tablo for my birthday on sale for $119.99. It works even better than my older legacy Tablo I paid for a life time membership. Like the whole interface better and the best part is no longer is the picture compressed like the legacy does. It looks as good as live TV even while it is recorded. Love TABLO.

Tablo is great.I also purchased a zapperbox,I absolutely love it,but it's pricey.They do have some new options coming along now that will make it more affordable.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Try living in areas of the good old USA that don't have adequate internet my friend.Then you would change your mind about streaming or nothing.There are many,many areas that don't have fast,reliable,or affordable internet to stream with.That is the problem.

I am sure there are still areas that don't have great broadband or choices. But I am saying over all if DISH wants to survive and appeal to future generations they need a streaming version of their DISH service that can replace SlingTV with and still keep the pricing structure that Sling Tv has. The Best of both services in one. Other wise they will keep losing subs till they aren't profitable any longer. I don't want to see them fail. I want them to be around a long time, but adapt to the changing market.

 

[Bruce]

I am sure there are still areas that don't have great broadband or choices. But I am saying over all if DISH wants to survive and appeal to future generations they need a streaming version of their DISH service that can replace SlingTV

Except DirecTV has that, two versions, Stream and by Internet, both of them combined has less subscribers then Sling.

DirecTV is still losing 2 Million Subscribers every year, for the last 3 years, as proven by Fitch Ranking, who does the Credit and Debt Rankings for DirecTV and many, many more, approved by the SEC.

with and still keep the pricing structure that Sling Tv has. The Best of both services in one. Other wise they will keep losing subs till they aren't profitable any longer. I don't want to see them fail. I want them to be around a long time, but adapt to the changing market.

Live TV needs to change no matter what, less channels, more new content, get rid of the rerun channels, get rid of the extra channels.

For example, no reason to have 3 FXs, get rid of FXX and FX Movies, put it on 1 FX, same for Disney, etc.

 

[profish]

Try living in areas of the good old USA that don't have adequate internet my friend.Then you would change your mind about streaming or nothing.There are many,many areas that don't have fast,reliable,or affordable internet to stream with.That is the problem.

starlink works pretty much everywhere

 

[tjboston5676]

starlink works pretty much everywhere

Average American doesn't have $600 to drop up front.

 

[navychop]

Sad, but true. How many in rural areas can? How many have the money? Successful farmers?

 

[Foxbat]

Average American doesn't have $600 to drop up front.

Starlink dropped the price to $299 for the starting kit until October 5th:

​

 

[Tvland1]

Average American doesn't have $600 to drop up front.

If I remember correctly alot of people paid around $500-$600 for Satellite Tv back in the late 90's

 

[Nebugeater]

Fine.

From the link-

By the end of 2023, the total number of broadband subscribers in the U.S. stood at 114.7 million.

So, out of 131 Million Households here in the United States, that is a tad under 88%.

So 16 Million without, but that does not mean all of them would have, want or need Satellite TV Service, if so, Satellite would have a lot more then 13 Million Subscribers for both Providers combined

U.S. fixed broadband internet subscribers 2023 | Statista

By the end of 2023, the total number of broadband subscribers in the U.S.

www.statista.com

Subscribers do not equate to households.

 

[Bruce]

Subscribers do not equate to households.

Of course it does, why would you believe it does not?

 

[rvvaquero]

Of course it does, why would you believe it does not?

Charter has 28.5 million residential subscribers and 2.0 million small and medium business subscribers.

https://ir.charter.com/news-release...ces-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2023-results

Comcast has 29.75 million residential subscribers and 2.5 million small and medium business subscribers.

Comcast Statistics - Comcast Facts, Stats, Trends & Data (2024) | WallStreetZen

Using these two companies as examples, we can assume that roughly 10 million of the 114.7 million subscribers are small and medium businesses. Businesses are not households.

 

[Bruce]

Charter has 28.5 million residential subscribers and 2.0 million small and medium business subscribers.

https://ir.charter.com/news-release...ces-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2023-results

Comcast has 29.75 million residential subscribers and 2.5 million small and medium business subscribers.

Comcast Statistics - Comcast Facts, Stats, Trends & Data (2024) | WallStreetZen

Using these two companies as examples, we can assume that roughly 10 million of the 114.7 million subscribers are small and medium businesses. Businesses are not households.

First, when I bring up the numbers, they are for TV Services, not broadband as yours are.

Broadband numbers have nothing to do with Dish & DirecTV subscribers, except for the fact that Broadband expansion into Rural areas is causing more Satellite subscribers to cancel.

More Business customers will have Broadband only, so again, has nothing to do with TV subscribers.

Those businesses with Video is an extremely low number, most offices have no need of a TV service.

Second, I separate business from residential.

So again, households are correct.