EchoStar/Dish raises doubts about 'ability to continue as a going concern'

[Radioguy41]

It is a myth that everyone in rural locations does not have access to Broadband in today’s world.

Common misinterpretation of meaningless numbers. You might want to reference the FCC's map to see the actual picture, awful lot of white in that map.

https://broadbandmap.fcc.gov/home

 

[Bruce]

Common misinterpretation of meaningless numbers. You might want to reference the FCC's map to see the actual picture, awful lot of white in that map.

https://broadbandmap.fcc.gov/home

And how many live in those areas of white?

 

[Juan]

And how many live in those areas of white?

Not enough to support internet service but plenty that need satellite tv

 

[Bruce]

Not enough to support internet service but plenty that need satellite tv

Prove it.

Needing and enough of the population to support a business model are two different things.

 

[dweber]

Sure more and more places are getting broadband. But for many folks who try the Internet services they are finding them hard to use and not reliable.

In my own home we stopped using DISH for a month and tried all of the services we could. And the wife and kids didn't like any of them and wanted their Hopper 3 back. I think the Hopper 3 may be helping keep Dish subscribers sticky.

I would be surprised if we see a slight increase in subscribers for DISH this fall. Finally after a strange year because of the strike, real TV and shows will be back, and people will again want the ease of viewing and the features that DISH gives with the Hopper 3.

Again I will say I would not be surprised at all if DISH does file bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is not a bad thing. (Hell I just went through it) It may be just what they need to keep the company alive and perhaps even help it thrive.

Will DISH be here in 10 years? Will DIRECTV? Thats hard to say, but I am sure we will have both of them for years to come, and I do hope both continue to embrace and change as the technology changes. DISH should have an IP service that mirrors its satellite service, SlingTV is NOT it. And have software that mimics about the things people love about the Hopper 3. I could see that being very successful.

There may be some dark clouds in the sky, but ultimately the sky is not falling.

I am one that hates the time and effort required for streaming. I love the ease and simplicity of my 2 Hopper 3 receivers. If Dish were to keep all of the Hopper 3 features but change their delivery from satellite to streaming I would gladly accept the programming. Since I pay $82.98 per month for Spectrum internet I could easily save money by streaming my content. But unlike Charles who spends time creating a spreadsheet detailing what streaming providers have the content available for him I just turn on my Hopper 3 hit the DVR button and all of my content is instantly available.


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[Yespage]

For me, some sports are still on cable/sat TV, not streaming. This is shifting away, but still relevant. The Hopper 3 for the Olympics was awesome. Pretty much record everything without discrimination, and sort through the list deleting the unwanted and watching the live broadcast without fear of spoilers that can happen via streaming and finding what you are looking for.

However, I'm 50/50 on dropping Dish (if Dish doesn't drop first) when the Hopper 3 upgrade shackles are gone as the need for cable/sat is diminishing for sports and more and more sports are being paywalled online, which is an issue as to why these channels get as much from me with Dish as they scrape out so much sports programming. I'll need a DVR of sorts still as OTA channels will still be required.

 

[ERSanders]

I am one that hates the time and effort required for streaming. I love the ease and simplicity of my 2 Hopper 3 receivers. If Dish were to keep all of the Hopper 3 features but change their delivery from satellite to streaming I would gladly accept the programming. Since I pay $82.98 per month for Spectrum internet I could easily save money by streaming my content. But unlike Charles who spends time creating a spreadsheet detailing what streaming providers have the content available for him I just turn on my Hopper 3 hit the DVR button and all of my content is instantly available.


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I agree with your Dish points but you should go back to Comcast and ask for a better rate, just got mine 500Mb (Spectrum, AKA Sputum) dropped to $30. Drop by their office and mention another competitor like T-Mobile... works like a charm

 

[dweber]

I agree with your Dish points but you should go back to Comcast and ask for a better rate, just got mine 500Mb (Spectrum, AKA Sputum) dropped to $30. Drop by their office and mention another competitor like T-Mobile... works like a charm

I have tried repeatedly to get a lower rate from Spectrum. They realize that they are the only provider in my location. T-Mobile and Verizon are not available so my only choices are Spectrum or Satellite Hughes Net. I even offered to drop to a lower rate but they claim that 300/10 Mbps are the only speeds offered in my location.


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[MikeD-C05]

Common misinterpretation of meaningless numbers. You might want to reference the FCC's map to see the actual picture, awful lot of white in that map.

https://broadbandmap.fcc.gov/home

There is not many people that live in that white area either it is sparsely populated. Most of the population in the country runs from from north to south to the middle of Texas and to the east of that line to the east coast. Then on the western coast you have California and Washington and Oregon but their populations hug the coast. So does it makes sense to try to get broad band to areas of the country with so few people living there. I think Satellite might be a better fit in these sparsely populated states.

1.123 million - Montana
1.939 million - Idaho
3.178 million - Nevada
7.359 million - Arizona
779,261 thousand - N. Dakota
909,824 thousand - S. Dakota
1.968 million - Nebraska
581,381 thousand - Wyoming
2.113 million - New Mexico
5.84 million - Colorado
3.381 million - Utah

Compared to California 39.03 million and Washington state 7.76 million and Oregon 4.24 million mostly concentrated on the west coast of these states. Texas has 30.3 million people mostly on the eastern side of the state with wide ares of the state sparsely populated out till west Texas and El Paso.

 

[Bruce]

I'll need a DVR of sorts still as OTA channels will still be required.

Tablo works great, no longer has a fee to use the guide and the DVR features, just buy the one unit.

And you can use it in any room, up to four if I remember correctly, as long as the TV’s apps or a Roku type box gets wifi, no more box charges as you get with Traditional Providers.

I am actually amazed that more providers do not get rid of the DVR/Box fees, so to help retain more subscribers.

Services like YTTV does not have a DVR/Box fees, you can use it in 3 different rooms at once, if more then that, $10 more for unlimited .

 

[Jim5506]

Prove it.

Needing and enough of the population to support a business model are two different things.

Once again, the white areas are irrelevant because satellite covers the entire country even places where NO ONE lives. The CONUS beams cover the CONtinental US. Providing satellite TV or internet on extremely sparsely populated areas is just as cost effective as everywhere else once the system is installed. And people in these neglected areas are less likely to drop service because their options are extremely limited.

 

[llokey]

Prove it.

Needing and enough of the population to support a business model are two different things.

Can we take it the other way around - Prove that it is not true.

 

[llokey]

Common misinterpretation of meaningless numbers. You might want to reference the FCC's map to see the actual picture, awful lot of white in that map.

https://broadbandmap.fcc.gov/home

In my case this map isn't true. I don't have broadband. I can get 1.5 Mb for $85/month - I declined that generous offer. According to the website, I have 100% 5G coverage. I guess that is somewhat true. If I am lucky I can get a download speed of 2 Mb.

So there are people who need satellite!

 

[Bruce]

In my case this map isn't true. I don't have broadband. I can get 1.5 Mb for $85/month - I declined that generous offer. According to the website, I have 100% 5G coverage. I guess that is somewhat true. If I am lucky I can get a download speed of 2 Mb.

So there are people who need satellite!

Again needing and enough customers supporting the business model, are two very different things.

After going thru the numbers, DirecTV has 10 million subscribers , but only about 7 Million are Satellite, Dish has 6 Million.

So 13 Million, if 40% ( which I believe is high) of that are rural subs, that is 5.2 Million, not enough to support two satellite companies.

 

[navychop]

Don’t overlook many prefer the simplicity of the Hopper 3.

 

[Bruce]

Can we take it the other way around - Prove that it is not true.

Fine.

From the link-

By the end of 2023, the total number of broadband subscribers in the U.S. stood at 114.7 million.

So, out of 131 Million Households here in the United States, that is a tad under 88%.

So 16 Million without, but that does not mean all of them would have, want or need Satellite TV Service, if so, Satellite would have a lot more then 13 Million Subscribers for both Providers combined

U.S. fixed broadband internet subscribers 2023 | Statista

By the end of 2023, the total number of broadband subscribers in the U.S.

www.statista.com

 

[rvvaquero]

By the end of 2023, the total number of broadband subscribers in the U.S. stood at 114.7 million.

So, out of 131 Million Households here in the United States, that is a tad under 88%.

Were all of the 114.7 million in households? I would think that quite a few would be industrial, commercial, etc.

 

[Bruce]

Were all of the 114.7 million in households? I would think that quite a few would be industrial, commercial, etc.

Just Homes, when you include businesses, brings the number up higher.

But a lot of businesses do not have broadband, going with the slower speeds, like DSL.

But remember, we are posting about availability in rural areas, where people are posting Satellite TV is a must have, because of no Broadband availability.

Then we have this-

Unfortunately, 22.3 percent of Americans in rural areas and 27.7 percent of Americans in Tribal lands lack coverage.

Since 20 Million Households are in the United States, that is about 4 Million Households without.

I believe it is higher, about 8-10 Million.

Broadband

www.usda.gov

Once again, I live in a rural area, septic, well, lots of land, I have Gigabit from Charter, Fiber install is next week.

 

[rvvaquero]

Just Homes, when you include businesses, brings the number up higher.

Oh, okay. Not disputing you, just couldn't find a residential number.

In this link, it just says 114.7 million total subscribers without distinguishing between residential or commercial.

U.S. fixed broadband internet subscribers 2023 | Statista

This link says 78% of US households have broadband, but it doesn't have a date so pretty much useless.

Broadband Facts & Stats | NCTA — The Internet & Television Association

The only reason I brought it up is that there are about 30 million small businesses in the US and I'd bet 95+% of them have internet.

 

[GPM]

The Feds say 25mb down is high speed. Yes I can get that late at night, so I guess I get high speed through T-Mobile? I just checked Im getting 18....I have never been able to pull off 4k for what ever reason?

https://enterprise.spectrum.com/support/faq/internet/what-is-considered-high-speed-internet.html

Just checked my T-Mobile speed. 294mb down. Location, location, location. I'm about 1/2 mile from the tower.