DISH -VS- VOOM - A Settlement has been reached!

[wallyhts]

What's your prediction for the number of billions of dollars that will make up the rest of the settlement?

Nothing AMC will get a new long term carriage agreement.

AMC only gets half the settlement CS get's the other half. So in the long term a new carriage agreement is a much better deal for AMC then a big one time payout and no carriage agreement.

I don't think AMC is really going to be-able to keep getting hits year after year it runs in cycle's.

 

[wallyhts]

Must you be so condescending toward anyone with an opinion differing yours?

He's a total closet charlie fan.!!! lol

 

[eddie willers]

If you haven't been following the case these posts should help you get up to speed...

http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads...ns!?p=2973781&highlight=ambiguity#post2973781
http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads...ns!?p=2985992&highlight=ambiguity#post2985992
http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads...ns!?p=2986302&highlight=ambiguity#post2986302
http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads...ns!?p=2986373&highlight=ambiguity#post2986373
http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/137234-DISH-VS-VOOM-The-Trial-Begins!?p=2986598#post2986598

I'm certainly not interested enough to slog through 26 pages of Internet bluster. I was a Dish subscriber to VOOM and I can say as a customer, it was evident that VOOM wasn't spending jack squat on new programming. A reasonable person would not think that redecorating executive offices (or anything other than developing new programming) would count toward a specified yearly minimum budget.

 

[mikeinaustin]

More news:

"The tempest started yesterday morning in Manhattan state court when Cablevision lawyers surprised the courtroom with evidence that Dish had way more HD customers than it previously claimed to have — 8.3 million versus 5.3 million."

“The damages here are substantial — and worse if it turns out that Dish under-reported its HD numbers,” said Craig Moffett, telecom analyst at Bernstein Research.

“This is a huge development. To suggest it is a material misrepresentation is an understatement,” he said.


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/ergen_dirty_dish_bGbFvzvKIdC8ghO81GV05L

 

[meStevo]

Re: DISH -VS- VOOM - The Trial Begins!

Wow.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[primestar31]

This is more like an old school George Foreman fight all the time! lol. Man, could he punch!

Voom has just about hit with everything but the final knock-out punch. If Dish doesn't settle right away, they are even more foolish than I believe they are. How much more can their "reputation" take?

Charlie needs to throw himself on their mercy, and show us he's still capable of rational thought regarding rescuing his business from this fiasco of his own making.

 

[The Fat Man]

I really believe that Dish knows they can't win. Look at these replacement channels. HDNet Movies (repeat). Axis (repeat). Style (repeat). You all know that, but how can we find it acceptable to just throw repeats at everyone? High quality replacements? I think not! Dish knows that either the nets will be restored in a settlement or restitution. AMC is a legacy channel found in the basic of tiers on most providers. It's one of those channels that doesn't make the choice, but you expect to see on your provider.

 

[riffjim4069]

I'm certainly not interested enough to slog through 26 pages of Internet bluster. I was a Dish subscriber to VOOM and I can say as a customer, it was evident that VOOM wasn't spending jack squat on new programming. A reasonable person would not think that redecorating executive offices (or anything other than developing new programming) would count toward a specified yearly minimum budget.

That is certainly your choice since it's a lot to digest. You asked a question and I provided an answer. The bottom line is Voom appears to have fulfilled their end of the contract but, as evident by evidence and the court's actions, Dish did not and they will most like lose this case and Cablevision/AMC will be made whole...plus a litte/lot extra. We shall see.

 

[riffjim4069]

It's interesting to see the New York Post tited your posted story as, "Ergen’s dirty Dish: Smoking gun e-mail turns tables in Cablevision trial." My question is will Ergen take the stand and get unmercifully hammer by statements he made in his deposition that are contradictory to the information in the deleted/recovered 2005 and 2007 emails...oh, not to forget Voom's mountain of evidence? We shall see.

More news:

"The tempest started yesterday morning in Manhattan state court when Cablevision lawyers surprised the courtroom with evidence that Dish had way more HD customers than it previously claimed to have — 8.3 million versus 5.3 million."

“The damages here are substantial — and worse if it turns out that Dish under-reported its HD numbers,” said Craig Moffett, telecom analyst at Bernstein Research.

“This is a huge development. To suggest it is a material misrepresentation is an understatement,” he said.


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/ergen_dirty_dish_bGbFvzvKIdC8ghO81GV05L

 

[HDRoberts]

You know, there seemed to a word in one of the articles here being ignored.

Customary Overhead.

I've long said that Dish should focus their case, not on the bulk of overhead, but show that what they counted as overhead was inflated to allow them to spend less on programming. Heck, they should also have gone after what they did spend on programming. Considering the programming I saw, if they really did get to $80M+ on programming, they must have been overpaying bigtime. Sadly it looks like their decision to overplay their hand will cost them.

As to the subscriber numbers, one thing I'd argue is that with Voom weighing them down, they would have fewer subscribers. I know I'd be gone if I had to pay an extra $20 like we all did pre-2008, while at the same time losing 15 or so other HD channels so Dish would have room for them. Dish would have a lot of SD subs, a few thousand dedicated horror movie/kung-fu movie fans, and a lot fewer of everyone else.

I also doubt the subscriber numbers Voom presented. No doubt they are counting as many as they can, such as my parents, who have a 722, but no HDTV. Or people that sub to premiums, which include HD rather or not people sub to an HD base pack. The truth, as so often is the case, lies somewhere in between.

 

[HDRoberts]

I really believe that Dish knows they can't win. Look at these replacement channels. HDNet Movies (repeat). Axis (repeat). Style (repeat). You all know that, but how can we find it acceptable to just throw repeats at everyone? High quality replacements? I think not! Dish knows that either the nets will be restored in a settlement or restitution. AMC is a legacy channel found in the basic of tiers on most providers. It's one of those channels that doesn't make the choice, but you expect to see on your provider.

I've watched more stuff off HDNet Movies than I have commercial-laden AMC (where the only thing I ever watched in the last decade was Mad Men).

AMC is indeed a legacy channel, but it is a shadow of its former self. Remember when the used to show, you know, classic American movies (like the name American Movie Classics would imply), and they showed them uncut?

As was pointed out above, the fact that The Walking Dead ratings were unaffected by the loss of 11 Million+ subscribers seems to prove Charlie right.

Personally, I wish a provider would do this more, namely not including channels simply because they are "legacy" channels that are "expected" to be carried, but rather looked at their quality versus cost.

And if you think the replacement channels repeat a lot, you should have seen Voom circa 2007-2008.

 

[mperdue]

You know, there seemed to a word in one of the articles here being ignored.

Customary Overhead.

If this were the issue then the emails where they discussed what constituted "customary overhead" would have been evidence in their favor and they wouldn't have destroyed them.

 

[riffjim4069]

I've watched more stuff off HDNet Movies than I have commercial-laden AMC (where the only thing I ever watched in the last decade was Mad Men).

AMC is indeed a legacy channel, but it is a shadow of its former self. Remember when the used to show, you know, classic American movies (like the name American Movie Classics would imply), and they showed them uncut?

As was pointed out above, the fact that The Walking Dead ratings were unaffected by the loss of 11 Million+ subscribers seems to prove Charlie right.

Personally, I wish a provider would do this more, namely not including channels simply because they are "legacy" channels that are "expected" to be carried, but rather looked at their quality versus cost.

And if you think the replacement channels repeat a lot, you should have seen Voom circa 2007-2008.

Yep, I too miss the American Movie Classics on AMC. However, I do like some of their scripted dramas...some of the best original programming on cable television according to many critics. Offhand, I would love to know if any of their shows like The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, Man Men and Hell on Wheels were being, or would have been, developed for any of the Voom channels.

 

[Bradtothebone]

It looks very much as if Dish is going to either lose this case, or settle for a LOT of cash (and probably a new AMC carriage deal). One can only hope that Cablevision/AMC will use their new billions to improve and augment their programming. AMC's original programming is mostly pretty good, and sometimes excellent. Imagine what they could do (if they so chose) with an infusion of cash!

 

[HDRoberts]

If this were the issue then the emails where they discussed what constituted "customary overhead" would have been evidence in their favor and they wouldn't have destroyed them.

No one can know that. Heck, if they were wanton deletions of unfavorable email, they would not have found the 2005 email. That could have been deleted fully with NO sanctions as there was no threat of lawsuit then.

There could have been no discussion of customary overhead. The word was probably used because it required no discussion, as that word is defined as that which is already established.

 

[The Fat Man]

I've watched more stuff off HDNet Movies than I have commercial-laden AMC (where the only thing I ever watched in the last decade was Mad Men).

AMC is indeed a legacy channel, but it is a shadow of its former self. Remember when the used to show, you know, classic American movies (like the name American Movie Classics would imply), and they showed them uncut?

As was pointed out above, the fact that The Walking Dead ratings were unaffected by the loss of 11 Million+ subscribers seems to prove Charlie right.

Personally, I wish a provider would do this more, namely not including channels simply because they are "legacy" channels that are "expected" to be carried, but rather looked at their quality versus cost.

And if you think the replacement channels repeat a lot, you should have seen Voom circa 2007-2008.

I got to say, those of us with BB@Home get squat. Wow, I don't have to press 3-8-3 on my remote? I can also press 1-3-0? Replacements should be something new for everyone.

 

[HDRoberts]

Yep, I too miss the American Movie Classics on AMC. However, I do like some of their scripted dramas...some of the best original programming on cable television according to many critics. Offhand, I would love to know if any of their shows like The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, Man Men and Hell on Wheels were being, or would have been, developed for any of the Voom channels.

As I said before, the Voom deal gave them the money to develop those shows, but I doubt any would have made it to Voom. When they found no other takers for the Voom 15, all the evidence points to Voom essentially shutting up shop, investing the bare minimum, inflating their overhead to drive that minimum down, and choosing to leach off one of their biggest competitors, Dish.

Heck, aside for licensing a few movies for Monsters, can anyone recall ANY new shows coming to Voom from the middle of 2007 onward? The only new programming I ever recall seeing in that time was a few new fasion shows on Ultra, new sporting events on World Sport, and the daily refresh of their 10 minute news loop on HD News. But no new shows.

 

[HDRoberts]

I got to say, those of us with BB@Home get squat. Wow, I don't have to press 3-8-3 on my remote? I can also press 1-3-0? Replacements should be something new for everyone.

I understand that. I already had the other 2 myself. But before you were complaining about their quality, so I was just pointing out the replacements aren't half bad.

A ton of people in your boat got free Rokus. I got $60 off my bill. A lot of us got something besides those 3 channels.

 

[mperdue]

No one can know that. Heck, if they were wanton deletions of unfavorable email, they would not have found the 2005 email. That could have been deleted fully with NO sanctions as there was no threat of lawsuit then.

There could have been no discussion of customary overhead. The word was probably used because it required no discussion, as that word is defined as that which is already established.

At this point the emails have been recovered so it will be very easy to determine what was discussed in them. FWIW, people with access seem to be of the opinion that they are very damaging to Dish's case.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Imagine what they could do (if they so chose) with an infusion of cash!

New boats for all the Dolans!