Comments from a lurker

[Charrasqueado]

I wanted to voice a few opinions about VOOM and this forum.
Since a frequent post says that only the whiners and complainers post to the forum, I assure you that I am neither. I rarely post anything and I don't pretend to speak for anyone except myself.

I do notice that a few people do most of the posting. Some of them complain about everything and the others defend everything. Both categories seem obnoxious and offer nothing of value. Neither is doing anyone any good. Can't the moderators do a little better job of weeding out that useless dialog?

I often see a question posted by a new subscriber that gets rude responses from the so-called "charter members". Give those guys a break! Answer the question if you know the answer and quit telling them that it's been answered many times before. They weren't here. They don't know that! Some kind soul answered my questions when I first got hooked up and I really appreciated it. (I also appreciate all Wilt's attention to this forum)

What is it with some of you people who think you've earned some special rank or privilege because you bought your equipment two months earlier than others did? You must have sorry lives if you claim that as some distinction. Who do you think is impressed?

The defenders of VOOM always talk about the many HD channels available on VOOM and that nobody else offers such a lineup. That is one of the reasons that I got VOOM. I was pleased for a short time. The PQ on these channels was very good to excellent. Then I realized that most of the channels have no content of interest or that they repeat everything over and over.

Let's all be realistic here, so somebody who drops into this forum to help decide if VOOM is for them or not and can find useful information.

Yes there are more HD channels... but there is no content on the VOOM only channels. They play the same few things over and over. The Cinema channels show OLD movies. The VOOM News is a joke. MOOV is a waste of bandwidth, etc. etc. These VOOM only channels are great for showing off your HD system to friends but that's about it (my opinion). I'm not complaining about them, I just think people should realize that they are not "exciting new exclusive" channels. I do like RUSH and Equator, but these too, lack sufficient programming and repeat over and over. The great HD channels like Discovery-HD are available on all the competition and of course the network HD is OTA.

I was an "early adopter" and had cable when first offered. Later I added a C-band BUD. Then DirecTV, Digital cable, HS Internet, VOOM and finally Dish Network. I state this only to disagree with those that say the other competitors had the same types of system and equipment problems in their early days. Not so. Everyone had a glitch now and then, but VOOM's problems with the Guide, rebooting, rain fade, OTA mapping, Volume, Lock-ups, etc., etc are much more numerous and serious. I don't think they were ready to go commercial but wanted to get a base of HD subscribers before all the others offer a lot more HD. Can't blame them for that but we customers are suffering their bugs.

I only got Dish (after the VOOM installation) so that I wouldn't miss some of the SD programming that VOOM doesn't carry. Fox News was one and it's now on VOOM. Tech TV was another and it's been ruined by the G4 takeover. Still like HG-TV and DIY though. I'm sure that VOOM will catch up on the channels offered. But I do find that I watch DISH more than VOOM. I love the dual DVR they supplied and depend on them for the local channels that I can't get OTA. My TV has it's own HD tuner so I keep the antenna hooked to it, as it pulls in more channels than the VOOM box does for the HD locals.

To conclude; I had intended to only have VOOM and did cancel DirecTV after the installation. But now I am thinking that by the time VOOM gets all the bugs worked out and also offers a HD-DVR, the competition will be caught up. What will be the best deal then remains to be seen.

If you don't agree with my comments, that's fine. They're only MY opinions. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone. You don't have to post 20 levels of rebuttal.

Thanks for the opportunity to express my opinion. Now I'll go back to lurking.

 

[Sean Mota]

I wanted to voice a few opinions about VOOM and this forum.
Since a frequent post says that only the whiners and complainers post to the forum, I assure you that I am neither. I rarely post anything and I don't pretend to speak for anyone except myself.

I do notice that a few people do most of the posting. Some of them complain about everything and the others defend everything. Both categories seem obnoxious and offer nothing of value. Neither is doing anyone any good. Can't the moderators do a little better job of weeding out that useless dialog?

The post you read was posted in the Yahoo Group which it is a unmoderated forum.

I often see a question posted by a new subscriber that gets rude responses from the so-called "charter members". Give those guys a break! Answer the question if you know the answer and quit telling them that it's been answered many times before. They weren't here. They don't know that! Some kind soul answered my questions when I first got hooked up and I really appreciated it. (I also appreciate all Wilt's attention to this forum)

again you are talking about the Yahoo group. Satelliteguys it's a different forum even though we have a gateway to the Yahoo Group that allows to see the discussion there because a lot of us are tired of receiving the spam and virus emails to which the Yahoo Group is susceptible. At Satelliteguys we always answered the question whether it was asked 3000 or not.

What is it with some of you people who think you've earned some special rank or privilege because you bought your equipment two months earlier than others did? You must have sorry lives if you claim that as some distinction. Who do you think is impressed?

I haven't seen that attitude in Satelliteguys forum.

The defenders of VOOM always talk about the many HD channels available on VOOM and that nobody else offers such a lineup. That is one of the reasons that I got VOOM. I was pleased for a short time. The PQ on these channels was very good to excellent. Then I realized that most of the channels have no content of interest or that they repeat everything over and over.

Let's all be realistic here, so somebody who drops into this forum to help decide if VOOM is for them or not and can find useful information.

Yes there are more HD channels... but there is no content on the VOOM only channels. They play the same few things over and over. The Cinema channels show OLD movies. The VOOM News is a joke. MOOV is a waste of bandwidth, etc. etc. These VOOM only channels are great for showing off your HD system to friends but that's about it (my opinion). I'm not complaining about them, I just think people should realize that they are not "exciting new exclusive" channels. I do like RUSH and Equator, but these too, lack sufficient programming and repeat over and over. The great HD channels like Discovery-HD are available on all the competition and of course the network HD is OTA.

Everyone has its own opinion for the exclusives. To me the HD cinema offer more variety in Movies. Yes, these movies are old but I have enjoyed them. Again not for everybody. HDnews is one of my favorite channels. I am not a news afficionado. I care two things about the news -- weather, sports and headlines. Nothing else. One man's trash is another's gold.

I was an "early adopter" and had cable when first offered. Later I added a C-band BUD. Then DirecTV, Digital cable, HS Internet, VOOM and finally Dish Network. I state this only to disagree with those that say the other competitors had the same types of system and equipment problems in their early days. Not so. Everyone had a glitch now and then, but VOOM's problems with the Guide, rebooting, rain fade, OTA mapping, Volume, Lock-ups, etc., etc are much more numerous and serious. I don't think they were ready to go commercial but wanted to get a base of HD subscribers before all the others offer a lot more HD. Can't blame them for that but we customers are suffering their bugs.

Yes, you are maybe right about some people having all those problems but not "all". Voom will get it together. I would not jump off the cliff right now.

I only got Dish (after the VOOM installation) so that I wouldn't miss some of the SD programming that VOOM doesn't carry. Fox News was one and it's now on VOOM. Tech TV was another and it's been ruined by the G4 takeover. Still like HG-TV and DIY though. I'm sure that VOOM will catch up on the channels offered. But I do find that I watch DISH more than VOOM. I love the dual DVR they supplied and depend on them for the local channels that I can't get OTA. My TV has it's own HD tuner so I keep the antenna hooked to it, as it pulls in more channels than the VOOM box does for the HD locals.

I have two DVRs (501 & 721). It took Dish almost two years to have stable software on both of these. Glad that you did not have to go through the early stages of these DVRs, you would have left Dish. I do not watch SD channels anymore so mine are collecting dust right now.

To conclude; I had intended to only have VOOM and did cancel DirecTV after the installation. But now I am thinking that by the time VOOM gets all the bugs worked out and also offers a HD-DVR, the competition will be caught up. What will be the best deal then remains to be seen.

If you don't agree with my comments, that's fine. They're only MY opinions. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone. You don't have to post 20 levels of rebuttal.

Thanks for the opportunity to express my opinion. Now I'll go back to lurking.

You are entitle to your opinion. This is why we have this forum. Yes, there are few that complaints (because of the problems you mentioned above), but there are others who can get to see HD programming. The best package is the VAVAVOOM package. You get to see not only the exclusives but also the premium. This is one I can never find anything in SD because I can always find something in HD to watch.

 

[motorcycle_rider]

Charrasqueado

I will be one of the people complaining about the mapping issues but in my case it has alot to do with where I live (very small dma). Also my OTA's are just coming online.

Yes there are alot of complaints and there are few praises but again that has alot to do with the nature of people. People will complain more often then offer a praise.

The exclusives are a very opinionated subject. I actually have not made much of an opinion myself on them yet other than I could live without them if they do not get more content but if they are there I do have control of the remote.

Sean, Ilya and a few others are very helpful around here a bit biased in my opinion, or maybe just alot more patient than I am. I do hope Voom can make it for the long haul simply because of the fact that the more competition or choices a consumer has the better, lower costing service everyone will have opportunities to get.

I am still with Voom for a few reasons. One they are my only acceptable choice at this time. Two is I am curious to see what they will end up turning out to be once they get the bugs worked out. Three is the large investment I made into the equipment. And the final most important reason is that I do like to tinker with things and well once we get OTA scanning this will give me an opportunity to take some of the issues into my own hands. My main issue with Voom is that I am not a very patient person. And I easily get frustrated when things are not progressing fast enough in my eyes. Occasionally I do lash out because of it.

Sean don't take the biased comment to be an insult. Because of that I think you get your drive to help people out as much as you can. Keep up the good work to those who help others out.

 

[vurbano]

I agree with everything CHARRA said. And by the time voom works out the bugs and discovers that PQ is THE most important part of all of this (remember this is HIGH definition not GOOD definition) D* may have caught up in HD channels. All that remains is who will have the better price. And then theres that 300 lbs gorilla...........Sunday Ticket. Im not jumping ship yet, but theres gonna come a day this year or next when D* is offering all the maininstream channels that Voom is and at better PQ it seems. I hope that doesnt happen because with D*'s commitment to launch more birds I and many others may be gone.

 

[lostcause]

Vurbano,

Considering voom has almost 40 HD channels right now and dtv has 3 (6 if you count the premiums and ppv) I think it'll be a long time before dtv even comes close to catching up.

 

[Seawaves]

I agree with everything CHARRA said. And by the time voom works out the bugs and discovers that PQ is THE most important part of all of this (remember this is HIGH definition not GOOD definition) D* may have caught up in HD channels. All that remains is who will have the better price. And then theres that 300 lbs gorilla...........Sunday Ticket. Im not jumping ship yet, but theres gonna come a day this year or next when D* is offering all the maininstream channels that Voom is and at better PQ it seems. I hope that doesnt happen because with D*'s commitment to launch more birds I and many others may be gone.

With the deal that DirecTV is offering for ST, I might just get me feet wet in that water. HGTV, DIY, PBSkids, Noggin are more reasons. I'll hold on to Voom to see if the DVR is any good, i.e. NOT Moto.

 

[vurbano]

Vurbano,

Considering voom has almost 40 HD channels right now and dtv has 3 (6 if you count the premiums and ppv) I think it'll be a long time before dtv even comes close to catching up.

FYI

first subtract 21 worthless "exclusives" from the 37 voom has, no 36 throw out the barker. you get 15. last time i checked. and 9 of those are premiums. that leaves 6. I think you need to take a harder look at this. DTV will add starzhd and TMC HD and cinemaxHD. Thats a no brainer, it means more revenue. as well as fox HD. they already offer 2 CBSHD feeds. I would expect BravoHD and TNTHD and EncoreHD. Once that is added you have everything voom has less the exclusives at better PQ. As well as hdnet and hdnet movies. With the addition of an HD PVR the east and west feeds of vooms premiums become irrelevant.

If you really want to look at the numbers harder, DTV already has 10 HD channels today. They are not that far behind.

 

[Sean Mota]

how easy it is to forget that the last time D* added HD channels was last year around May; they were supposed to add more with the arrival of 7S; then it was changed (by the D* loyals) to July 2004. Since nothing came on July 2004, now the same D* loyals have changed the tune to September 2004. I hope that September 2004 does not come and It changes to 2005.

Again worthless to you Vurbano. Speak for yourself do not speak for the rest of us. Thank you.

 

[Indy]

Charrasqueado, Congratulations on becoming the next moderator! Go get em guy!

 

[riffjim4069]

I find the VOOM Exclusives to be worthwhile too. I often find something worth watching on Cinema10, MonstersHD or one of the other VOOM exclusive channels. The selection of movies on Cinema10 it getting better each and every month and, from what I see, will continue to improve. Of course, the PQ is nice but it certainly needs improvement...and they certainly need more HD sports IHO.

 

[1080iBeVuMin]

Charrasqueado, thanks for taking time to express your views so clearly. I enjoyed the whole thing, especially the ROTFLMAO funny part about the special distinction for buying equipment early.

My disagreement with you is regarding the content of the exclusive channels, which we both agree is purely a question of personal taste. Over 50% of our viewing time is Equator, Gallery, Rush, and DiscoveryHD (non-exclusive). "Finally TV has something good on." Yes, the shows repeat - "Ancient Chinese Treasures" must be on 4 times a day, every day for the past 8 months. But there is so much content in most of these exclusive programs that I can watch them 10 times and still see something interesting.

Another BIG plus for me, and a real pleasure, is the lack of commercials on the Voom exclusives! I can't stand all the car commercials, medicine commercials, and every other kind of brain dead commercials on most channels. But I guess by getting a PVR and having the ability to skip through the ads, this one Voom advantage goes away.

The older flicks on Cinema10 offer a nice balance to the current films on the premium channels.

I am not married to Voom, and would switch to another provider if they offer something better. But another provider needs to do a lot more than simply catch-up with 40 HD channels. They need to add another 40 DiscoveryHD-type, commercial free channels to attract my interest.

 

[lostcause]

Vurbano,

As for the 21 exclusives being worthless, that's a matter of opinion. Rush, rave and monsters are great channels. Equator shows some good stuff once in a while. The cinema 10 channels show some excellent older movies that I hadn't had the opportunity to see before. Now I have the chance, and in HD even!!! For example, I had never seen Persona before. Saw it the other day. I had seen Clockwork Orange several times before, but it was great to see it in HD. I could go on and on.... Dtv has nothing like this. I agree they don't need 10 channels for the content they have at the moment, but hopefully they will either add more content or combine some of the channels. They could also combine Ultra, Auction, and Gallery as far as I'm concerned, but again, I realize this is a matter of opinion. Others may enjoy these as much as I enjoy Monsters.

As for dtv, I don't need 2 CBSHD feeds. I don't even need one. I already have CBS OTA. Fox HD? Considering it's Fox, I expect it's gonna be like espnHD, meaning mostly SD content.

Basically this topic boils down to a matter of viewing preferences. Everyone's will be slightly different and maybe one provider's 4 channels will suit you better than another provider's 30 channels. Everyone will have their own preferences. At the moment, mine is voom. I may change my mind tomorrow for all I know, but for now voom fits my viewing habits just fine. I will be very sad if I can't take them with me when I move.

As for dtv actually catching up, right now it's all speculation since dtv won't say, but I still think they have a long way to go. You may think differently if you think the voom exclusives are worthless, but again, I actually enjoy most of them.

Oh, and most importantly, most of Vooms HD channels are included in the basic package. Dtv has ZERO! You have to pay 11/mo for 3 or 4, and buy all the premiums for the other 3 or 4. This is a major point for me.

 

[Charrasqueado]

Correction to my previous post

Please read Sean Moto's comments on my previous post. He is absolutely right about the attitude and prompt answering of questions by SatelliteGuys.us. I had been reading posts from the Yahoo group.

People here seem to be much more helpful and courteous.

 

[vurbano]

the reality is that D will probably match everything voom has less the HD exclusives in the near future. At that time, based on the current picture quality, the repetitive 2nd rate content of these 21 exclusives, and all of the problems I dont see Voom growing much further. I do believe that the "churn" rate of Voom subs is possibly in large part due to new subscribers watching the voom exclusives and realizing that theres just nothing compelling on them to watch and that they repeat over and over again. I dont even think its fair to have a comparison based on the number of HD channels because it promotes these exclusives as real channels. They are not. They are not even close. Put them OTA and they would go out of business unlike marc cubans channels which some affiliates are already buying blocks of and broadcasting OTA. I will eat my words when some idiot buys "flug tag" to fill OTA air time with an honestly thinks it could compete against anything.

 

[Sean Mota]

the reality is that D will probably match everything voom has less the HD exclusives in the near future. At that time, based on the current picture quality, the repetitive 2nd rate content of these 21 exclusives, and all of the problems I dont see Voom growing much further. I do believe that the "churn" rate of Voom subs is possibly in large part due to new subscribers watching the voom exclusives and realizing that theres just nothing compelling on them to watch and that they repeat over and over again. I dont even think its fair to have a comparison based on the number of HD channels because it promotes these exclusives as real channels. They are not. They are not even close. Put them OTA and they would go out of business unlike marc cubans channels which some affiliates are already buying blocks of and broadcasting OTA. I will eat my words when some idiot buys "flug tag" to fill OTA air time with an honestly thinks it could compete against anything.

That is your opinion and of course you have a right to say it. But it is only based on your own speculation. Did you join the Swann band wagon?

I'll have a prediction as well: Within 2 to 3 years, HDnet will be on VOOM? Does it mean anything --- no...

 

[vurbano]

Vurbano,

As for the 21 exclusives being worthless, that's a matter of opinion. Rush, rave and monsters are great channels. Equator shows some good stuff once in a while. The cinema 10 channels show some excellent older movies that I hadn't had the opportunity to see before. Now I have the chance, and in HD even!!! For example, I had never seen Persona before. Saw it the other day. I had seen Clockwork Orange several times before, but it was great to see it in HD. I could go on and on.... Dtv has nothing like this. I agree they don't need 10 channels for the content they have at the moment, but hopefully they will either add more content or combine some of the channels. They could also combine Ultra, Auction, and Gallery as far as I'm concerned, but again, I realize this is a matter of opinion. Others may enjoy these as much as I enjoy Monsters.

As for dtv, I don't need 2 CBSHD feeds. I don't even need one. I already have CBS OTA. Fox HD? Considering it's Fox, I expect it's gonna be like espnHD, meaning mostly SD content.

Basically this topic boils down to a matter of viewing preferences. Everyone's will be slightly different and maybe one provider's 4 channels will suit you better than another provider's 30 channels. Everyone will have their own preferences. At the moment, mine is voom. I may change my mind tomorrow for all I know, but for now voom fits my viewing habits just fine. I will be very sad if I can't take them with me when I move.

As for dtv actually catching up, right now it's all speculation since dtv won't say, but I still think they have a long way to go. You may think differently if you think the voom exclusives are worthless, but again, I actually enjoy most of them.

Oh, and most importantly, most of Vooms HD channels are included in the basic package. Dtv has ZERO! You have to pay 11/mo for 3 or 4, and buy all the premiums for the other 3 or 4. This is a major point for me.

1. I am speaking for myself
2. I see 109.00 value on my bill for vavavoom. That tells me that Voom thinks its gonna raise the price 30 bucks next year for vavavoom. IMO that could only mean they think the voom exclusives are worth another 30 bucks? They need their heads examined. There will be a mass exodus from voom when that happens.
3. Im sorry but go count the repeats of concert on RAVE its ridiculous. How many times have you seen the same moto pig episodes on rush? Equator is very repetitive. Combine the 3 channels and you might have something.

 

[Seawaves]

FYI

first subtract 21 worthless "exclusives" from the 37 voom has, no 36 throw out the barker. you get 15. last time i checked. and 9 of those are premiums. that leaves 6. I think you need to take a harder look at this. DTV will add starzhd and TMC HD and cinemaxHD. Thats a no brainer, it means more revenue. as well as fox HD. they already offer 2 CBSHD feeds. I would expect BravoHD and TNTHD and EncoreHD. Once that is added you have everything voom has less the exclusives at better PQ. As well as hdnet and hdnet movies. With the addition of an HD PVR the east and west feeds of vooms premiums become irrelevant.

If you really want to look at the numbers harder, DTV already has 10 HD channels today. They are not that far behind.

Vurbano-

Thanks for doing the math and speaking the truth. Voom can't get better if it's defenders are NOT objective (yes, that means Sean), Voom is not giving us great PQ and if we don't get it- many of us will leave Voom. This is not what we signed up for. Tell me all Voom HD content will look like HD News in a short time, (or even HDnet) and I'll be glad to shut up.

Voom needs to right this ship before it sinks!

 

[Sean Mota]

Vurbano-

Thanks for doing the math and speaking the truth. Voom can't get better if it's defenders are NOT objective (yes, that means Sean), Voom is not giving us great PQ and if we don't get it- many of us will leave Voom. This is not what we signed up for. Tell me all Voom HD content will look like HD News in a short time, (or even HDnet) and I'll be glad to shut up.

Voom needs to right this ship before it sinks!

You and Vurbano needs to have you head examine as well. Why the heck do you categorize me as a VOOM defender (or Voom bias or whatever)? I pay the same money as you do. Because I try to say that you guys are being so unfair in your evaluations and try to put VOOM on the floor? That's not the situation with VOOM. There are issues but as bad as you guys want to put it. You give me another provider (today) that will supply better content and I will go as well. I have no loyalty to E* or D* or V* or Cable. I have loyalty to my $$$$. Nobody today provides more HD. So until E* or D* comes out and do it, this conversation is a waste.

 

[Sean Mota]

1. I am speaking for myself
2. I see 109.00 value on my bill for vavavoom. That tells me that Voom thinks its gonna raise the price 30 bucks next year for vavavoom. IMO that could only mean they think the voom exclusives are worth another 30 bucks? They need their heads examined. There will be a mass exodus from voom when that happens.
3. Im sorry but go count the repeats of concert on RAVE its ridiculous. How many times have you seen the same moto pig episodes on rush? Equator is very repetitive. Combine the 3 channels and you might have something.

and where's you information for this. More speculation... I could tell you that my E* bill will increase next year also based on the same speculation.

 

[vurbano]

That is your opinion and of course you have a right to say it. But it is only based on your own speculation. Did you join the Swann band wagon?

I'll have a prediction as well: Within 2 to 3 years, HDnet will be on VOOM? Does it mean anything --- no...

Keep up the 12mbps average bandwidth and ill take your money on that bet.

1. Cuban will NEVER let his product be butchered like that at 12mbps.

2. Voom will not have enough subs to get HDnet anyway is it stays at the current PQ.