Bonds Stands Alone #756 *

Toggle sidebar
  • Server Issues.

    We are very aware that there have been system issues the past few days. In troubleshooting the system, it has been determined that the issue is at our provider and is hardware related. As of 12:05 PM ET our provider has moved us to a new server.

    Things seem to be running better on this new server. However in trying to diagnose the issue (before finding out it was a hardware issue) we made some system changes which we need to undo. So if you find any issues or errors please let us know in the Operations Center Forum.

    Thank you for your patience! Sorry for the issue!
    CLICK THE X IN THE TOP RIGHT CORNER OF THE BOX TO DISMISS THIS MESSAGE
Paul Wozniak said:
Lasik? OK, lets ban eyeglasses too. They improve vision artificially also. Steroids are not illegal? Again, more silly arguments. I'll ask again - Do the ends justify the means to you guys? If you guys can live with this , that's fine. To convince me, you'll need something more substansive in your arguments. Good luck. Sorry guys, but this record is tainted, any way you want to justify it.
Click to expand...

Lasik...aboslutely. Your eye sight IS THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of being a good hitter. When you get older, your eye sight gets worse...now correct me if I am wrong, you eye sight does not get worse with Lasik surgery...? How is THAT not performance enhancement...with Lasiks you might have added 3-5 more season to a major league hitter.

Yes, the record is "tainted" because of the suspicion of steriods use....but what do you say about all the "greenies" used by previous players in the past?

I am not trying to convince anyone...because the there record is tainted in your eyes....if he took steroids or not...he is STILL one of THE greatest player EVER and in our lifetime. And if you cannot see that, then you really don't know baseball....:(
 
salsadancer7 said:
Lasik...aboslutely. Your eye sight IS THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of being a good hitter. When you get older, your eye sight gets worse...now correct me if I am wrong, you eye sight does not get worse with Lasik surgery...? How is THAT not performance enhancement...with Lasiks you might have added 3-5 more season to a major league hitter.

Yes, the record is "tainted" because of the suspicion of steriods use....but what do you say about all the "greenies" used by previous players in the past?

I am not trying to convince anyone...because the there record is tainted in your eyes....if he took steroids or not...he is STILL one of THE greatest player EVER and in our lifetime. And if you cannot see that, then you really don't know baseball....:(
Click to expand...

Lasik surgery is perfectly legal though? I don't see your point.
 
Paul Wozniak said:
Salsa, you are right about one thing - Bonds and the rest of the steroid players did change the game. Unfortunately, not for the better. Bonds was one of the best the game has ever seen WITHOUT the steroids. He would not have broke the record WITHOUT steroids. He is still hitting tape measure HRs. because he PREVIOUSLY used steroids.
Click to expand...

Dude....you are saying that if you used steroids 2-3 years ago...the effects are still helping you hit tape measure home runs??
 
Agree about eyesight. That's what helped make Ted Williams such a dangerous hitter. He used to state that he could see the seams of the ball rotating on the way to the plate.

salsadancer7 said:
Lasik...aboslutely. Your eye sight IS THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of being a good hitter. When you get older, your eye sight gets worse...now correct me if I am wrong, you eye sight does not get worse with Lasik surgery...? How is THAT not performance enhancement...with Lasiks you might have added 3-5 more season to a major league hitter.

Yes, the record is "tainted" because of the suspicion of steriods use....but what do you say about all the "greenies" used by previous players in the past?

I am not trying to convince anyone...because the there record is tainted in your eyes....if he took steroids or not...he is STILL one of THE greatest player EVER and in our lifetime. And if you cannot see that, then you really don't know baseball....:(
Click to expand...
 
There should be no asterik. Records are made to be broken. If Bonds was using illegal steroids then he knows about it and will have to deal with it in his own conscience. But it was Aaron who held the record before, not sportwriters or fans. He showed extreme grace in his speech. And that is, I think, far more important than a number in a book.

I'm not downplaying how big a thing the record is. But it isn't the number by itself. Someone will break it again.
 
cebbigh said:
There should be no asterik. Records are made to be broken. If Bonds was using illegal steroids then he knows about it and will have to deal with it in his own conscience. But it was Aaron who held the record before, not sportwriters or fans. He showed extreme grace in his speech. And that is, I think, far more important than a number in a book.

I'm not downplaying how big a thing the record is. But it isn't the number by itself. Someone will break it again.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter, in ten years A-Rod will have the record.
 
OK this is ridiculous, steroids may not give you more bat head speed, or give you bigger muscles without putting in the work, and they do not make you see the ball any better......

I totally agree with all of that, but what steroids will do is allow a 40 year old man play like a 25 year old man. So in a sense with steroid use he was playing like a superstar rookie all over again. No matter how you slice it that's cheating.

The argument of "everyone else was doing it too" has absolutely no merit whatsoever. Millions of people sell drugs too does that mean we should just over-look it and stop arresting them?

Look I'm not saying that we should put an asterisk beside his record or totally just dismiss it because of suspected steroid use. However, I will say it will forever be noted asterisk or not that those 756 home runs had a little help getting over the wall, or at least a few seasons of them did. Now, no matter what happens in the future, that stigma will forever tarnish his legacy.

It's ok though, because every generation has their champion, and Bonds was ours. Even if you hated the man, he somehow got you excited about America's Favorite Pastime again. Even if you looked at him and said "What a steroid freak" it was usually followed with "Did you see how far he hit that ball?" and ultimately that's what baseball or any other sport is all about. Wins and losses, errors and spectacular plays, and that mystic October Magic. Ultimately that's all that matters, thrill me, excite me, awe me, and make me never question why you get paid millions of dollars to play with a ball. That's all I want, and somehow Bonds did that steroids or not,

just my .02
 
Last edited:
Then we should overlook Pete Rose's betting on baseball and lying about it for 15 years and let him back in.

I think Pete should be in the HOF for his hitting record but he broke a rule and should be banned for life. This coming from a die hard Reds and Pete Rose fan.
 
sidekick said:
On that note though, wasn't Roger Maris' 61 home runs a remarkable achievement for a man who never had anything close to that number before or after? He had 39 the year before and 31 the year after. Was he on steroids as well in 1961? Barry Bonds had 49 homers the year before the 73 and 46 the year after. Beyond the obvious, how is that different from Maris? Percentage wise, I'd say it's very close. Further, Hank Aaron admitted in his autobiography that he took amphetamines in 1968. Does that admission render his stats suspect as well?
Click to expand...



Maris' prodigious production that year si generally credited to expansion. and many people considered that mark to mean less as well due to expansion---and the increased length of the schedule from 154 to 162 games. Did Maris use them? maybe but there sems little evidence to support the claim Maris was not the only Yankee to see incredible production that year so unless the whole team was juiced it seems unlikely.

As for hammein' HAnk he admited the situation----and he aslo noted that it was one of his worst years. But somehow you neglect to mention taht.
 
To me, the circumstances under which one takes a banned substance doesn't matter. The fact is it was allegedly done to increase performance. here's an interesting article I found that speaks to steroid and greenie use in the 60's and 70's. These are also links to the stories.

Testimony by Tom House implicates Aaron:
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The San Francisco Chronicle, in a May 3rd 2005 article quoted former Major League pitcher Tom House of the Atlanta Braves as saying that steroids were rampant in the game in the late '60s and throughout the '70s. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]House, perhaps best known for catching Hank Aaron's 715th home run ball in 1974 in the Atlanta Braves bullpen, said he and several teammates used amphetamines, human growth hormone and 'whatever steroid' they could find in order to keep up with the competition. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"I pretty much popped everything cold turkey', House said. "We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif] [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"I actually think that the game is cleaner today than when I was playing,'' says former major league pitcher Tom House, who pitched in the 1970s and was later Nolan Ryan's pitching coach. House says that he used steroids because "In my case, I was doing everything I could just to survive, but the steroid use ended up backfiring on him....Every generation of players -- the '20s, '30s, '40s on up -- everybody was looking for a way to get the most out of their bodies, and they took whatever they possibly could. It was almost expected. . . "[/FONT][/FONT]
Testimony from Representative Henry Waxman
In 1973, the year I first ran for Congress, the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce concluded a year-long investigation that found--and I quote--"drug use exists...in all sports and levels of competition...In some instances, the danger of improper drug use--primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids--can only be described as alarming". Bowie Kuhn, and the powers that be at the time, quietly squashed the entire tawdry episode and with good reason: it would cast suspicions on an African-American slugger who was challenging one of baseball's most cherished records: The career record for home runs.


Geronimo said:
Maris' prodigious production that year si generally credited to expansion. and many people considered that mark to mean less as well due to expansion---and the increased length of the schedule from 154 to 162 games. Did Maris use them? maybe but there sems little evidence to support the claim Maris was not the only Yankee to see incredible production that year so unless the whole team was juiced it seems unlikely.

As for hammein' HAnk he admited the situation----and he aslo noted that it was one of his worst years. But somehow you neglect to mention taht.
Click to expand...
 
To me thr use of illegal sustances in other eras does not justify he use of banned or illegal substances in the current era. I just fon't buy these rationalizations. It is not OK.
 
Hell, lets remove all records and titles won, because as we know we all have indisputable proof that each team has had at least one cheat every season from the very beginning. MOVE ON!
 
charper1 said:
Hell, lets remove all records and titles won, because as we know we all have indisputable proof that each team has had at least one cheat every season from the very beginning. MOVE ON!
Click to expand...

Yes lets do that. Because of course the only possible alternative is to say pretend that that nothing is wrong. Maybe there are other alternatives.
 
No one's saying to justify anything. Just to get off the Bonds Bash Wagon. These other players are far from being saints and all people can say is that Bond's record is tainted. Like the other players are pure as driven snow ...:rolleyes: Further, I don't see the players from the 60's, 70's and so on as being from another era.

Geronimo said:
To me thr use of illegal sustances in other eras does not justify he use of banned or illegal substances in the current era. I just fon't buy these rationalizations. It is not OK.
Click to expand...
 
I never heard roids, but that he and others took substances known to enhance performance. So we now have as much "proof" on them as we do any player today that is suspect, but NEVER failed the roids testing. MOVE ON!
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 1)

Latest posts

Share this page

Share this page
Top