Where are my Satellite Guy's gamers at?

Something tells me that Second Son is going to be it's own story. Don't feel teh need to replay the PS3 games just for a refresher. Not to be a spoiler, but let's just say that inFamous 2 pretty much wraps up the story, regardless of whether you're "good" or "bad."

Yeah I have heard that. Unfortunately I already know the endings to inFamous 2. I am replaying the first one for a refresher for inFamous 2 because it has been so long since I played it. I have inFamous 2 as a free PS Plus game and since I am actually excited for Second Son I thought it was finally time to finish the PS3 versions of the franchise.
 
Yeah I have heard that. Unfortunately I already know the endings to inFamous 2. I am replaying the first one for a refresher for inFamous 2 because it has been so long since I played it. I have inFamous 2 as a free PS Plus game and since I am actually excited for Second Son I thought it was finally time to finish the PS3 versions of the franchise.

inFamous 2 is a great game and worth playing, regardless. But I'm sure Second Son will include a number of references to the major events of the game, especially the whole conduit thing. Though I'm sure you'd be fine story-wise without it, you'll appreciate the game's unique world that much more. It was the delay of Second Son's release that was the nail in the coffin as far as me seeing no reason to get a PS4 at launch.
 
inFamous 2 is a great game and worth playing, regardless. But I'm sure Second Son will include a number of references to the major events of the game, especially the whole conduit thing. Though I'm sure you'd be fine story-wise without it, you'll appreciate the game's unique world that much more. It was the delay of Second Son's release that was the nail in the coffin as far as me seeing no reason to get a PS4 at launch.

Yeah, I definitely would have preferred to have it at launch. The actual launch lineup doesn't have a whole lot I'm super excited about. Killzone is the only game I ordered with my system. I was never a huge fan of the Killzone series but out of the actual launch titles that one looks the best for my interests. I'm sure Battlefield 4 and even COD will be fine online games but as a gamer that prefers good campaigns they don't really excite me. Watch Dogs is a campaign first game at least but so far that hasn't gripped me for whatever reason either and I think I'm over the Assassin's Creed series. I tried to play AC3 but I just couldn't get into it.

The two games I wanted most for my shiny new PS4 were inFamous Second Son and Destiny and neither of those games are going to be ready at launch. I still couldn't help preording my PS4 the second they were available to order though. I knew when I ordered that there would be periods of very few quality games to play especially in the first year. Luckily I have a lot of PC games from the summer sale waiting to fill those gaps.

I have already filled up my Gamefly queue with Knack, Watch Dogs, The Order, Battlefield 4, Call of Duty, Thief and Assassin's Creed 4. I may skip a few of those based on reviews but I know I need something to play on my PS4 even if I'm not super excited about all of them. That's what low risk rentals are for after all.
 
There are definitely a few launch PS4 games that have my attention, namely Watch Dogs, The Order, and AC IV. And if not for extensive and growing PS3 backlog I might bite. But not being a renter, I prefer to hold off just now and wait for reviews and price drops. I hear what you mean about the AC series. I have my fingers crossed about AC IV, though. Trailers look good anyway. The colonial America setting of ACIII never appealed to me in any way as much as I loved the Ezio trilogy (yes, even Revelations).
 
I'm currently playing Splinter Cell Blacklist on my PC. That was a hefty 25GB download. I think that is the biggest one so far of any game I have downloaded.

Anyways, I mentioned earlier that Splinter Cell, Chaos Theory, and Pandora Tomorrow were right up there with anything on the list of my favorite games on the original Xbox. The lighting looked incredible and they had hands down the best graphics of that generation in my opinion. I tried Double Agent on the 360 but couldn't really get into it and I never even gave Conviction a chance.

Blacklist looked like kind of a reboot and return to what made the Xbox games so great so I was really excited to play it. Spies vs. Mercs was one of my fsvorite Xbox Live experiences on the original Xbox. I planned on jumping straight in to it but I am under a severe thunderstorm warning and my internet is dropping in and out so I went with campaign instead.

I paid $60 to download this game from steam and so far I'm not sorry I didn't wait for a sale. I am only a couple hours in right now but it is bringing back some good memories. I'll write up my thoughts after I finish the campaign and get some multiplayer in.


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I'm currently playing Splinter Cell Blacklist on my PC. That was a hefty 25GB download. I think that is the biggest one so far of any game I have downloaded.

Anyways, I mentioned earlier that Splinter Cell, Chaos Theory, and Pandora Tomorrow were right up there with anything on the list of my favorite games on the original Xbox. The lighting looked incredible and they had hands down the best graphics of that generation in my opinion. I tried Double Agent on the 360 but couldn't really get into it and I never even gave Conviction a chance.

Blacklist looked like kind of a reboot and return to what made the Xbox games so great so I was really excited to play it. Spies vs. Mercs was one of my fsvorite Xbox Live experiences on the original Xbox. I planned on jumping straight in to it but I am under a severe thunderstorm warning and my internet is dropping in and out so I went with campaign instead.

I paid $60 to download this game from steam and so far I'm not sorry I didn't wait for a sale. I am only a couple hours in right now but it is bringing back some good memories. I'll write up my thoughts after I finish the campaign and get some multiplayer in.


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I saw a brief preview of Blacklist last night and it intrigued me though I've never played a Tom Clancy game. The part I saw reminded me a bit of Deus Ex, one of my favorite games. Is there a lot of stealth in this or was it just the spies vs. mercs component that features it?
 
I saw a brief preview of Blacklist last night and it intrigued me though I've never played a Tom Clancy game. The part I saw reminded me a bit of Deus Ex, one of my favorite games. Is there a lot of stealth in this or was it just the spies vs. mercs component that features it?

I still haven't played Deus Ex so I can't compare it to that. The Splinter Cell series is all about stealth though. Yes, you can win a shoot out if you are spotted but you can't take much damage. Your best bet is to shoot the guy who saw you and try to disappear before his buddies show up.

This game does have custom load outs. I don't remember that being part of other games in the series. I looked through them and there are several upgrades that can increase your armor or improve your gun so you may be able to turn Sam into a guns blazing badass. I play this series for its stealth gameplay so all of my upgrades have been stealth based so far.


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I still haven't played Deus Ex so I can't compare it to that. The Splinter Cell series is all about stealth though. Yes, you can win a shoot out if you are spotted but you can't take much damage. Your best bet is to shoot the guy who saw you and try to disappear before his buddies show up.

This game does have custom load outs. I don't remember that being part of other games in the series. I looked through them and there are several upgrades that can increase your armor or improve your gun so you may be able to turn Sam into a guns blazing badass. I play this series for its stealth gameplay so all of my upgrades have been stealth based so far.


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Sounds quite similar to Deus Ex in terms of gameplay, where you can either go guns blazing (glass cannon) or stealth. Though the game obviously encourages you to go the stealth route, both in terms of in-game rewards (more XP and quicker upgrades) and achievements/trophies. Blacklist sounds like something worth keeping eye out for come Black Friday. (Due to extreme backlog, I'm presently no longer paying full price for games when they release.)

My primary gaming focus at the moment is Uncharted Golden Abyss, that is when I'm not playing Borderlands 2, of course. I was having some serious issues with the aiming mechanic in Uncharted GA until I learned about the motion aiming assist, which is set as the default. The game doesn't even tell you about it until the third chapter, following an opening gun battle in the prologue and a few other combat skirmishes in the first two chapters. Since I disabled it and turned down the camera sensitivity, it's going much better for me, though those enemy heads seem like they are a tenth of the size I'm accustomed to on the big screen, even accounting for how much closer the Vita screen is to my face. I'm also still struggling with the best way to hold the Vita and am curious about those $15 trigger grips. Have you tried them?
 
Sounds quite similar to Deus Ex in terms of gameplay, where you can either go guns blazing (glass cannon) or stealth. Though the game obviously encourages you to go the stealth route, both in terms of in-game rewards (more XP and quicker upgrades) and achievements/trophies. Blacklist sounds like something worth keeping eye out for come Black Friday. (Due to extreme backlog, I'm presently no longer paying full price for games when they release.)

My primary gaming focus at the moment is Uncharted Golden Abyss, that is when I'm not playing Borderlands 2, of course. I was having some serious issues with the aiming mechanic in Uncharted GA until I learned about the motion aiming assist, which is set as the default. The game doesn't even tell you about it until the third chapter, following an opening gun battle in the prologue and a few other combat skirmishes in the first two chapters. Since I disabled it and turned down the camera sensitivity, it's going much better for me, though those enemy heads seem like they are a tenth of the size I'm accustomed to on the big screen, even accounting for how much closer the Vita screen is to my face. I'm also still struggling with the best way to hold the Vita and am curious about those $15 trigger grips. Have you tried them?

I hear you on waiting for sales. Most games I don't need to play day one. I am trying to wait until I can get them from gamefly or on sale on PC now. Certain games like The Last of Us and obviously Splinter Cell get the best of me though.

I had a bit of trouble with the shooting mechanics in Uncharted at first too. I eventually got used to it without really noticing. Other shooters like Killzone and Unit 13 never gave me that problem. Killzone feels like a full console FPS in my hands.

Uncharted was a launch game for the Vita. My biggest problems with the game were the forced Vita gimmicks like holding the camera up to a light. Luckily you don't have to mess with those gimmicks much outside the first time they show you them. First party launch games always seem to require every new system feature possible but thankfully they let it go after a few months.

I haven't noticed any trouble holding the Vita either. It feels comfortable in my hands and the controls feel solid. I've never seen the trigger grips you are talking about but at $15 it might be worth a shot.
 
So after 24 hours (according to Steam) I finally finished off Saints Row The Third. Calling a game like this "over the top" is like saying that Rush Limbaugh leans a bit to the Right. Volition have clearly decided to stray from the GTA model and instead focus on over the top antics and pushing fun and humor as it's biggest selling points, and to it's credit it succeeds, perhaps a bit too much at times.

I won't delve much into the plot because there isn't much of one. The Third Row Saints (your gang) have grown to the level of superstars to the point where they're revered public figures, in some weird mix of Capone and Disney. Eventually some other gang comes in and royally messes your gang up and then kicks you out of Stillwater and makes you run to Steelport to get your bearings straight and get ready to kick ass back. There's a little bit more to it than that but not enough to delve into. It's a standard "Rise to power" plot, but sadly the path to power isn't really that great or rewarding, especially if you were smart and sexy like me and purchased this game and all its DLC in the recent Humble Bundle for $6. A lot of the DLC is extra items for you, so even when you start the game off you are given dozens of new, powerful weapons and vehicles that give you a clear advantage over the competition. Hell before you've even played a handful of missions you're given access to a jet fighters and numerous cars with guns on them. So basically it's like one corporation fighting another, as opposed to the previous SR and GTA games where you rise from nothing to become great, a'la Scarface.

Speaking of Scarface, an ongoing staple of the SR games is that rather than be like GTA where you're guiding an already established character, in this game your character is much more customizable. You can choose all sorts of body features, gender, and even accents which are a nice touch. I decided to create a big Russian blonde with a heavy accent who looks and sounds like a cross between Ludmilla, Skyler White, and Olga Gurlukovich (BTW if you know who all those people are without using Google you score some points in my book.) This made me feel a bond with my character that I hadn't felt since I met Tommy Vercetti. I especially will look forward to seeing her become President of the United States when I bring her with me to SR4.

I just realized I haven't even mentioned the gameplay. Well, have you played any GTA game in the past 10 years? Yeah, it's basically that, except the gameplay is much more leaning towards the player, which can be good and bad. Because you have regenerating health and pinpoint accuracy, the game is hardly challenging on normal difficulty. Also, gamer pro tip: Upgrade your handguns first, because you'll likely be using them 95% of the time if you want to play smart. Headshots are 1 hit kills and are very easy with them, so choosing to NOT use them is like choosing to take your bike to work instead of your car. Also, the game has a few too many "tutorial" missions. About 75% of the story missions (not counting the DLC ones) simply introduce different gameplay mechanics or open up other activities that you can do. While this is basically part of the 10 commandments of open world games, I was still getting tutorial stuff when I was about 90% done with the game. Also, the last 10% of the game can get very frustrating, for reasons I can't really delve into due to spoiling elements of the plot, but let's just say it has to do with ramping up difficulty simply by throwing so many baddies at you that it feels like a re-creation of the opening scene to "Saving Private Ryan." Also, the ending blows. Seriously, it's just bad, and I truly realize why all the reviewers said the same. For how over the top this game is, for an ending to come out like this one it's like the developers thought their deadline was on the 15th of the month but then they realized it was the first, so they just threw something together last minute to get it Gold in time for shipping.

As I said, the game really pushes the over the top elements and real lack of subtlety. It is hit or miss at times, but when it hits, it hits very well. Probably my favorite instance was at the last mission when the game started blasting Bonnie Tyler's "I Need a Hero" as I was racing through streets, gunning down enemies, and disarming bombs. Another was when I was in a wrestling match, and there was a quick time event where I had to keep hitting the button to throw punches at my enemy while he was pushed against the turnbuckle, and hearing the crowd yell and count along with the punches put a big smile on my face. Still, there are more than a few duds, such as the one character who always speaks in auto tune, and the whole "Genki" minigame/sidequest screams of "trying too hard." The very last part of the game in particular before the ending is a bit douche chilling as well, although I suspect they may have been going for that intentionally.

The side missions can be fun, although rather limiting as well. There's one where you're trying to commit insurance fraud so you need to get hit by multiple cars and such to build up damage points. There's escort missions where you have to deliver a tiger. There's also a weird Japanese Game Show style minigame that has you killing cute mascots in a limited time arena. These are just a few mind you. They definitely stray from the GTA stable of taxi, food delivery, firefighting, etc etc, and much like GTA, they really are hit or miss. However, they aren't as deep as the GTA games where you can just rack off hour after hour doing them IMO.

Overall I highly enjoyed SR3, but it is definitely an uneven experience, and it is understandable how polarizing of a game it is. The over the top antics and focus on fun are good for the most part, but they do sacrifice levels of subtlety and good storytelling and pacing. Few of the characters in this game stand out like they do in the GTA series, although there are a few noteworthy exceptions that again, I don't want to spoil, but they have some interesting celebrities voicing them. Had this game not cost me only $6 I likely would never have played it, but I'm glad I did. While I do recommend playing it, it's definitely hard trying to sell this to someone with the Godzilla that is GTA V about to hit us like we're living by a power plant in Japan. But basically, if you thought GTA 4 was a dull mess of realism and you just want to tear sh*t up, SR3 will not only let you do this, but it will also give you a big purple dildo to assist you. That's probably all that needs to be said.

I give it a B.

So yeah, now I'm basically waiting on GTA V. I basically spent the last 3 days really plowing through SR3 so I'd have it done in time for GTA. I definitely want to get SR4 when it has a price reduction, which I'm guessing will happen during the next big Steam sale. Maybe I'll get into Blood Dragon in the meantime.
 
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Saints Row III has been free for PS Plus members since June, but I wouldn't even consider it part of my backlog at this point, due to high priority backlog and general lack of interest.

Last week I finally fired up Hitman Absolution and I'm having much more difficulty getting the hang of the stealth components than I did for Deus Ex. In the later, there always seemed to be a clearer path/pattern (and better weapons/abilities) to either systematically take out all enemies in any given area or sneak through without being detected (walls, crates, and other large objects were generously placed to avoid line of sight). And if all else failed, you could turn invisible and run like hell. In Hitman, the disguise system is utterly broken and almost useless (as confirmed by longtime fans of the franchise), and there are just too many enemies in large open areas to take out, and once you are detected, it turns into a third-person shooter in which you are at a distinct disadvantage, as you kiss any chance at a perfect stealth run through the chapter, and completing level-specific challenges, goodbye. And without a manual save system, you can't even save after each short section you successfully complete as you can in Deus Ex. Overall, the presentation is very solid and the story and gameplay fun and engaging, if you don't mind hacking your way through each level with guns blazing.
 
SR3 is the game I'm playing right now too. Like you, I got the humble bundle for 5 or 6 dollars and that came with all the DLC. I used the jets and tanks that came with the DLC for exploring the world and just having fun but I chose to stick to more standard vehicles for the missions so I wouldn't just plow through everything. This is the first Saints Row game I have played and I am absolutely loving the experience. I'm not finished yet so who knows if my opinion will change but as of right now I'm actually ok with waiting until I can get GTA V from gamefly or for a PC version to be released.

I was as excited for GTA V as most people but now I'm actually looking forward to Saints Row 4 more than GTA V. Don't get me wrong. GTA III was the reason I got a PS2. I played part of it at a friends house and had never seen anything like its open world. Within a few days of playing it I had my own PS2 and that game. I also bought Vice City, San Andreas, and GTA IV on day one. I'm going to lose a little bit of gamer cred with this part but the only GTA game I have ever beaten was Vice City. That was by far my favorite of the franchise and the most fun I ever had with a GTA game. I get hyped for every GTA and always love it when I start playing but somewhere along the way I lose interest. They do some impressive things but ultimately Saints Row is just more fun.

In one of the earliest missions in the game you jump from a helicopter and parachute on to the roof party of a rival gang's headquarters. As soon as you jump out of the chopper Power by Kanye West starts playing like an action movie soundtrack and becomes the background music to you being a bad ass. Now, I'm not a Kanye fan but everything about this felt so epic that I was hooked right from the start. The thing I love about Saints Row is that they aren't worried about realistic gamplay or a grounded story. Everything they try to do is purely for the sake of fun. I don't feel that this is the case in GTA. The driving is easier and more fun and the shooting is much better in Saints Row 3 than GTA 4.

GTA tries to stay grounded in reality but that ruins some of the fun. I absolutely hated dying on a mission in San Andreas and GTA IV. Not only does that mean doing the combat part of the mission again but it also means you have to drive all the way across the map and talk to whoever to launch the mission again and then drive all the way across the map again to get to the actual combat part. Some of these areas were pretty tough too so there is a good chance I would die repeatedly on the same mission and do all of this over and over again. You are also constantly escorting or tailing people with AI that can get wonky at times. There is nothing worse than failing a mission because someone you aren't controlling gets stuck trying to run through a parked car. There is a little bit of this in SR3 too but for the most part they just took out all the parts that aren't that much fun about open world games and left us with the good stuff. They take a nice shot at GTA IV too. If you don't touch any buttons for a few seconds your character will say stuff. One of the lines was something like this, "I'm sure glad my annoying cousin isn't calling me every 5 minutes to hang out." Niko's cousin really did call all the time asking to play darts or whatever. This seemed kind of cool and realistic at first but it sure got old fast.

Now I realize I'm sounding overly negative towards GTA. I am still very excited to play GTA V. I am even going to make myself finish this one. I would never say I don't like GTA. I always go in super hyped and love playing the first half of the game. I just seem to stop about half way through. I think a lot of the reason I lose interest in GTA games but haven't in SR3 is because SR3 is about fun above everything else. GTA is fun too but they have other goals that don't always keep my interest as well.
 
Looks like they fixed my biggest complaint as well as a couple of the other things I mentioned (shooting and driving). From the IGN review...

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/16/grand-theft-auto-v-review

It’s immediately noticeable that the cover system is more reliable and the auto-aim less touchy. The cars handle less like their tires are made of butter and stick better to the road, though their exaggerated handling still leaves plenty of room for spectacular wipeouts. And at long last, Rockstar has finally slain one of its most persistent demons, mission checkpointing, ensuring that you never have to do a long, tedious drive six times when you repeatedly fail a mission ever again.

For those who don't want to read the whole review IGN gave it a perfect 10.
 
Looks like they fixed my biggest complaint as well as a couple of the other things I mentioned (shooting and driving). From the IGN review...

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/16/grand-theft-auto-v-review



For those who don't want to read the whole review IGN gave it a perfect 10.
The reviews for the most part so far are very good. The general complaints that seem to be constant have to do with story and tone. Some have complained that the game is too misogynistic and puts women in a bad light, while some have complained that the characters are too over the top and unlikable to take seriously, which isn't good for a game as story focused as this.
 
The reviews for the most part so far are very good. The general complaints that seem to be constant have to do with story and tone. Some have complained that the game is too misogynistic and puts women in a bad light, while some have complained that the characters are too over the top and unlikable to take seriously, which isn't good for a game as story focused as this.

I've never played a GTA game, but I didn't realize people would play a game like that for the story or because it represented women in a respectful, non-stereotyped manner. ;)
 
I've never played a GTA game, but I didn't realize people would play a game like that for the story or because it represented women in a respectful, non-stereotyped manner. ;)
Actually the GTA series have traditionally been very narrative driven (excluding the first 2 I suppose.) Yeah there are some who get the games just to go nuts and blow stuff up, but the fact is the series wouldn't be as popular as it is if it was just a big kill fest. A number of people were turned off by GTA IV and Nico being such a depressing, down character. My favorite GTA to this day remains to be GTA: Vice City in large part to the narrative. Ray Liotta as Tommy Vercetti was like playing a cross between Henry Hill and Tony Montana and the crazy 80's backdrop in Miami was a blast. I've probably played that single game more than I played all the other GTA games combined. It was the closest I ever got to getting 100% in a GTA game. As far as the woman factor goes, I can't really say because I haven't played the game. I do know that the Saints Row series doesn't have the same issue because they have main characters as women that carry over across the games and need to be dynamic to carry the story, as opposed to GTA which each game is it's own world. Hell you can even make your character a female. Seeing as women characters traditionally haven't been what I would consider a "highlight" of the series, I have a feeling that they must be put in a REALLY negative light if it's enough for people to complain about.
 
Actually the GTA series have traditionally been very narrative driven (excluding the first 2 I suppose.) Yeah there are some who get the games just to go nuts and blow stuff up, but the fact is the series wouldn't be as popular as it is if it was just a big kill fest. A number of people were turned off by GTA IV and Nico being such a depressing, down character. My favorite GTA to this day remains to be GTA: Vice City in large part to the narrative. Ray Liotta as Tommy Vercetti was like playing a cross between Henry Hill and Tony Montana and the crazy 80's backdrop in Miami was a blast. I've probably played that single game more than I played all the other GTA games combined. It was the closest I ever got to getting 100% in a GTA game. As far as the woman factor goes, I can't really say because I haven't played the game. I do know that the Saints Row series doesn't have the same issue because they have main characters as women that carry over across the games and need to be dynamic to carry the story, as opposed to GTA which each game is it's own world. Hell you can even make your character a female. Seeing as women characters traditionally haven't been what I would consider a "highlight" of the series, I have a feeling that they must be put in a REALLY negative light if it's enough for people to complain about.

I guess Rockstar didn't become Rockstar for putting out terrible narratives in their biggest franchise. I've only been gaming in the current generation, so my only inkling of GTA (other than the uninformed negative crap you hear from mainstream media) is from GTA IV, which just did not appeal to me in any way from bits and pieces I've seen of it.

GTA Liberty Stories is free on the Vita for Plus members starting today. I know it's a PSP port, but does anyone know if that would serve as a good introduction to the series?
 
I would pick up Liberty City Stories if you want something to play on your Vita. If you just want to get into the series you may as well just start with GTA V though. Each of the GTA games from the PS2 era forward was considered pretty revolutionary and great when they were released. Unfortunately none of them seem to hold up that well including GTA IV in my opinion. I tried to get back into GTA IV a few months back and couldn't even get through the first few missions.
 
I would pick up Liberty City Stories if you want something to play on your Vita. If you just want to get into the series you may as well just start with GTA V though. Each of the GTA games from the PS2 era forward was considered pretty revolutionary and great when they were released. Unfortunately none of them seem to hold up that well including GTA IV in my opinion. I tried to get back into GTA IV a few months back and couldn't even get through the first few missions.
I'd say that Vice City still holds up. Yeah it doesn't look great (like those Virtua Fighter Hands they all had) but the story, soundtrack, and characters are still fun as hell. Gameplay is still decent as well. I wasn't as big of a fan of San Andreas because I wasn't big on CJ and also they saddled you with so much crap to do and random RPG elements that it just got more of a chore than fun.
 
I'd say that Vice City still holds up. Yeah it doesn't look great (like those Virtua Fighter Hands they all had) but the story, soundtrack, and characters are still fun as hell. Gameplay is still decent as well. I wasn't as big of a fan of San Andreas because I wasn't big on CJ and also they saddled you with so much crap to do and random RPG elements that it just got more of a chore than fun.

Yeah, I mentioned earlier that Vice City was by far my favorite GTA. It is still the only one I have played all the way though so it may hold up better than the others. San Andreas was by far my least favorite and GTA III was the game that convinced me to get a PS2. The RPG elements you mentioned in San Andreas like having to eat and exercise are pretty out there even for most RPGs. The two I tried to go back and play in the last year or so are GTA III and GTA IV and like I said I couldn't get too far into either of them before deciding I didn't want to play them.

I thought GTA IV was truly amazing when it came out but that was 5 years ago. Newer open world games like SR3 have came out since then and totally ripped GTA off. They made enough improvements to the formula to make GTA IV feel pretty dated though. I have no doubt that a modern GTA V makes GTA IV feel even more dated. I'm not anti GTA and I appreciate them taking their time between releases to make great games. That 5 years just left a lot of time for everyone else to rip them off and fix the problems they had.
 

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