What will you do when Sky Angel DBS ends?

[JeffH]

Read this article:

Ministry founder: U.S. Christians 'absolutely not prepared' for persecution (OneNewsNow.com)

Puts things in perspective doesn't it?

Jeff

 

[mrskippy]

SA DBS is going OOB, so a lawsuit is not going to work. The contracts are for the lifetime of the service. When the service is OOB, there is no breech of contract. My inlaws have loved having SA as they were among the original lifetime subscribers. It would never occur to them to sue SA.

I think that people think that "lifetime" means until YOU die. Nowhere does it say that. It's a two way street and if the service dies, that is the end of ITS "lifetime." Microsoft stops supporting earlier releases of Office and Windows -- you DO NOT get lifetime support. You want further service, you buy the new software.

Lots of companies have "lifetime" plans. IIRC, TIVO offered it. TIVO rival Replay TV had it and than they went under (making the PVR a heavy paperweight). XM and Sirius both offer it, but they are merging and there is a chance you may lose your plan in that process.

Now, IMHO, it isn't right that SkyAngel isn't providing it's DBS clients with a free IPTV box. Is there any difference in price between the DBS versus IPTV? If not, than providing the equipment would be the moral thing to do.

 

[catkoko]

IPTV is about $10 more a month to get a package similar (fox news, hallmark etc)to what monthly viewers pay $14.99 for currently. of course its $25 more a month than what lifetime members are paying now that doesn't include new equipment or broadband internet fees.

LIFEtime was actually clearly stated to be that of "you the subscriber and/or your spouse"

Microsoft doesn't promise lifetime support though. Generally computers have a 1-3 yr warrantly, which is CLEARLY disclosed. they also do NOT attempt to change terms AFTER purchase. sky angel has made numerous changes to the subscriber agreement but they really didn't apply to lifetime members the way they were worded. sky angel lso has various versions of the lifetime contract, promising different terms.

sky angel is NOT dead or out of business. they are only changing their broadcasting equipment. neither is the satellite dead, although it was supposed to be replaced in 2002.

I agree thought that even if sky angel can find a LEGAL loophole there is a MORAL obligation to those loyal lifetime members who kept them afloat all these years. the problem is that sky angel sends these misleading IPTV flyers out. they make it appear that IPTV is a CHOICE, not a mandatory switch. No where do they disclose shutting down DBS. They also have yet to address the lifetime members at all and service is allegedly being cancelled in aprox 7 weeks or less

 

[jashobeam]

The contracts I have seen state they can change the service (would include discontinuing the service) at any time for any reason. That limits lifetime warranty and gives them an out. When SA stops broadcasting via satellite they will be within their rights by law according to all contracts I have seen. Who in the world would ever think "lifetime warranty" meant the company could never change, go out of business or switch owners? No court is going to think it reasonable to assume "lifetime" meant until you die, even if part of the contract said that. Companies go OOB everyday. A contract cannot protect the company from changes, it only is a basic guide. If 3 years ago you bought a lifetime sub for your newborn, would you expect SA to have to broadcast via satellite until your child dies 100 years from now? No, that's just illogical. In 100 years TV and/or satellites may not even exist. If you had bought an 8-track tape mail order service "lifetime warranty" in the 1970s would you sue them because you don't have access to new music, so therefore the equipment you bought to play the 8 tracks then is worthless? No. You would have understood that techonology changes, no matter the "lifetime warranties."

 

[catkoko]

Actually the courts usually do uphold contracts even when a company is sold. that fact has been causing upheaval in the prepaid funeral business as owners try and get out of contracts signed back in the 1960's, even by selling the businesses. The courts have upheld the contracts even when the burial costs are now substantially higher now. Inflation should have been figured in and wasn't. Same deal with sky angel. NOT the consumers fault.

Obviously sky angel is still in business (so far at least). They have only changed their mode of delivery but they are still in the business of broadcasting Christian TV .

You are looking at the terms of service, which can be changed for monthly subs. Totally different animal that the lifetime contract. Even that could probably be challenged as earlier subs could/would be "grandfathered". new terms wuld apply after that date.

 

[Bill R]

Jashobeam,

You are so "full of it", it isn't even funny. You don't have anything even close to a clue about contract law.

 

[catkoko]

You could also look into health clubs that sold with prepaid contracts. they were court ordered to either get them service in a comparable club or refund membership fees paid PLUS damages for "breach of contract".

It is not a matter of any of us putting sky angel out of business. However if that should happen it is the fault of sky angel, not those who may fight to get what they paid for. No one should feel guilty if that is the outcome.

 

[Scroll]

Hi folks. Looks like I'm late to the party.

I only found out about SA DBS ending from having some old Ku band antennas and purchasing a receiver to get mainly GloryStar. Still struggling with that!

I too am disappointed that Dominion's definition of "lifetime" is until they wanna try something else. If they were being true to Christian beliefs the only fair solution would be to extend the lifetime subscription to the IPTV Faith service even if the lifetimers had to pay for the IPTV box. The other programming should, of course, be optional.

But I too see a number of problems with IPTV. I supposedly have a 7 MPS connection, yet their speed meter only rates me at 500 - 700 KPS. I have a home security camera streaming from a PC, Vonage, 2 Tivos, and 1 other PC running and either the calculation is wrong or my broadband provider has a problem. It sounds like a lot traffic, I know, but much of it is idle most of the time and even so it shouldn't be eating up 6.5 MPS.

So I don't know if I can use their IPTV either!

Now mom has just a basic DSL connection, so instead of her current $15 a month she'd have to pay $20 or more to increase bandwidth despite not really ever using a computer, though we've tried to get her to. All it's used for is so she can see my camera feeds and for when I'm in town.

So there is the REAL problem here, and the reason why IPTV will fail, especially when they anger the lifetime subs and those who worked hard to promote their DBS service. We are their core supporters! yet they're really just writing us off. So after we are long gone who will help them market their product? Not to mention recommend their service.

 

[jashobeam]

Actually the courts usually do uphold contracts even when a company is sold. that fact has been causing upheaval in the prepaid funeral business as owners try and get out of contracts signed back in the 1960's, even by selling the businesses. The courts have upheld the contracts even when the burial costs are now substantially higher now. Inflation should have been figured in and wasn't. Same deal with sky angel. NOT the consumers fault.

Obviously sky angel is still in business (so far at least). They have only changed their mode of delivery but they are still in the business of broadcasting Christian TV .

You are looking at the terms of service, which can be changed for monthly subs. Totally different animal that the lifetime contract. Even that could probably be challenged as earlier subs could/would be "grandfathered". new terms wuld apply after that date.

My health club went under, no one sued. My burial plot was sold to an outside company and no one else can be buried there, even those who had plots there; still no one sued. Just because a few judges make obviously bad rulings does not mean it's the norm. If it were the courts would be jammed with such cases. Businesses go under every day and people understand that. The fact is SA said they could change the contract IN the contract. Again, some just want nothing more than to see SA go under. They would rather no one be ministered to than to admit they took a chance that didn't work out. I'm not even sticking with SA, but I think if others want to continue to take a chance on the company all the best to them.

 

[Scroll]

My burial plot was sold to an outside company and no one else can be buried there, even those who had plots there; still no one sued.

Not sure I understand that, but I don't want to go off topic.

Here is the bigger point. Who will be "ministered to" by the switch to IPTV?

I grew up in the Chicago area where TV 38 was one of the first Christian TV stations in the country. Long story short I believe they sold to Pax and took the money to form TLN.

That is light-years different than going from DBS to an unproven internet proprietary box delivery system and wiping out all the lifetime commitments claiming this to be a different business, in effect. It is the SAME business and only the delivery system has changed.

Is it hard to see that while much of the programming in the Faith package will be geared towards non-Christians, few if any non-Christians are going to be inclined to plop down $200 plus $15 at ANY point? So it looks like the choir is getting preached to yet again. Man I sure wish the choir would repent so we can move on to getting the whole world saved!

 

[jashobeam]

Yes, non-Christians are not getting SA, but Christians need to be ministered to! The kids shows are great for teaching Bible stories and lessons and the documentaries are good for continued Christian education. Few if any people subscribed to SA just for information on how to become a Christian, and there is a lot more on SA than just that. Most subs seem to be Christians who want Christian programming in their home. That is a need. No, I don't think most Christians want to pay for Christian programming, so I don't think SA is going to last. However, as I said if they do, I hope for them the best in showing programming that ministers to Christians and possibly reaches some lost.


Yes, my burial plot was sold, as was my mom's and dad's. We were forced to buy elsewhere. The organization controlling the property went out of business. They sold the property to another company who wanted the adjacent land. I guess there is a contract that someone will keep the property up where the current graves are. However, new burials are not an option, so those who did not die and be buried before the change of hands, had to buy elsewhere.

 

[JeffH]

Thanks for your posts jashobeam. I am one of I hope many that want Sky Angel to succeed and have subscribed to their IPTV service to help to that end. I have learned from and have been ministered to by a number of programmers, both radio and Television. Sadly, from my experience most Christians don't want to pay for Christian Television, most don't even want it if it's free, so Glorystar won't sell millions of FTA boxes either. None the less, I will promote SA's IPTV service as often as I can in hopes of bringing in as many subscribers as I can.:up

Jeff

 

[Bill R]

I will promote SA's IPTV service as often as I can in hopes of bringing in as many subscribers as I can.:up

Jeff

As a Christian you would be less than honest if you don't tell potential Sky Angel IPTV customers how Sky Angel treated their current customers, especially Lifetime subscribers. Be sure to mention Canadian IPTV customers too, many whom bought the IPTV hardware only to find that now they can't use it (Sky Angel cut off ALL IPTV service in Canada).

You would be much more "Christian" if you would tell people about GloryStar FTA instead of promoting service from a company (Sky Angel) who VERY likely won't be in business two years from now (and I'm willing to put money on that bet).

 

[catkoko]

As a CHRISTIAN

As a Christian I can no longer promote Sky Angel. In order to promote sky angel HONESTLY all the problems would need to be mentioned including the demise of IPTV Canada, not launching satellite

Take a good look at the other NEULION progaming packages. If sky angel does fail, those would be your only option, other than throwing the equipment away!

what if you sign up and your internet proves too slow?


I pray that any who support Sky angel and IPTV will be honest to those who consider joining.

Even though I am not yet a subscriber I hand our glorystar flyers and would suggest others do the same.

 

[Scroll]

One small point about the Sky Angel DBS as opposed to IPTV. At least in theory some non-Christians might have added the SA package just for the family oriented channels back when it was only $10 a month.

That, plus at the time it counted as qualifying programming so that you could sub to just movies and/ or locals with a SA sub. All that has obviously since changed of late.

I agree that Christians need "ministering to" but unfortunately anymore there are all too many out there just picking pockets in the name of ministering. Not naming, names but it's fairly obvious when the lifestyle becomes more important than the message and you are expected to make the messenger's personal dreams all come true.

 

[Scroll]

(edited)

Sadly, from my experience most Christians don't want to pay for Christian Television, most don't even want it if it's free, so Glorystar won't sell millions of FTA boxes either.
Jeff

But you know this GloryStar sounds really promising, even though I've not gotten my own setup working just yet. In theory, as long as there's a Christian group transmitting FTA you will have something to show for your $200 investment. And there's a good chance you can use that equipment for other legally free programming as well for quite a while.

Granted, the technology could change, everyone could decide to scramble their signals, whatever. But for a while this technology is totally free once installed. No extra $6+ after taxes for each extra receiver.

And you know what? A non-Christian just might happen to tune in to a totally FREE FTA program. It's been known to happen!

So while I'm holding judgement until I can actually get the signal myself I think this may be the best solution for me. If it works as well as expected I'll promote it as best I can and help anyone I can to get up & runnning.

With the way some of the cable & DBS providers have been going (not entirely their fault because they can only air what's available to them by contract) I'm really not sure I want my dollars going to promote the current fettered trends in traditional media sources.

 

[jashobeam]

Glory Star does not sound promising to me currently. There are so few channels on that we would watch it would not be worth it to us. Last I checked there were fewer than 10 channels our family would watch. It's not worth having a satellite around if you only watch 6 or 7 of the channels.

 

[rjc3895]

What was the real purpose of "lifetime" memberships"

When I signed up for SkyAngel in 1998, I took advantage of the lifetime membership. Am I the only one who saw this as a way for SkyAngel to get seed money to help build their organization? While it was not a stock purchase, I think the intent was the same. It was an attempt to get the money needed to grow the company.

Let's face it, in the real world, there is not a giant market for Christian-only programming of any type. For example, I will not buy Guitar Hero 3 because of the musical content and the graphical content. I would love to see a Christian-based version of this game. Will it happen? Probably not because there is not a big enough market to support the product.

Sky Angel always held TV specials to raise more money. I have no idea what checks and balances the company put in place to prevent careless spending, but my guess is that those of us with lifetime subscriptions seldom (if ever) donated another dime to this organization.

When was the last time you saw Dish Network and DirectTV offer a lifetime membership? When was the last time you saw those companies offer any type of programming package for under $20.00? How much do you think these companies profit from offering "adult" packages? After all, porn is a multi-billion dollar industry, and sadly, statics show that Christian men are buying it as well. Many of us wanted SkyAngel to be an family-freindly alternative to the other satellite TV and cable providers who charge too much and make us pay for channels we don't want.

SkyAngel tried to compete with the big boys. They were never able to get the money needed to launch their own satellite (until I see financial records stating otherwise, I will not accuse SkyAngel of mishandling their money).

Am I disappointed that I am losing my lifetime membership? No. Rather I am ashamed that I did not continue to support the ministry financially. Maybe if more people came together as a body of believers giving to anyone who might have need (my paraphrase of Acts 2:42-45), SkyAngel would have had the resources to build their satellite.

By the way, as I recall, when I signed up for the lifetime membership, I understood that the contract was only good as long as service remained on Echostar 3. That satellite is failing, so SkyAngel had to do something. Stay tuned to satelliteguys.com forum. It probably won't be too long before we hear news about DISH looking to launch a new satellite in place of Echostar 3 because they have the financial means to do it.

While I cannot get IPTV, I am thankful for my C-band dish that allows me to get most of the channels (both Ku and C band) for free.

 

[lumpkin666]

... I will not buy Guitar Hero 3 because of the musical content and the graphical content. I would love to see a Christian-based version of this game. Will it happen? Probably not because there is not a big enough market to support the product. ...

Go at it!
Frets On Fire

 

[jegrant]

Plus, there is a Christian alternative to Dance Dance Revolution, called Dance Praise. SA* actually sells it in one of their new online stores.

Perhaps the makers of Dance Praise would also be interested in producing a Christian version of the Guitar Hero software? They could surely buy the same guitar controller used in the secular game, but just change the software to suit Christian family values.