What Will DISH Do Next?
- Thread starter charlesrshell
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How would it be fair to make a customer pay for a Hopper and multiple outlets through higher package prices when they only want a 211? If you want a Hopper and TV in 6 rooms then you pay for them. If you want a 211 on 1 TV then that's all you pay for. Further, what do you think would happen if package prices went up dramatically to cover the revenue from the removed fees? A huge amount of churn would be my guess.
Your argument is fatally flawed.
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Duh.... He named it after himself: Primestar
It failed, remember ?
Primestar was a pretty good service. The biggest problem with them was that they were owned by the cable companies.
Just another excuse. Tivo has overhead and support costs too, no different than Dish. It's included in the one service fee. Overhead for paying networks and installers is a cost of doing business that should be included in the cost of providing that programming for which the business was created, not in bogus below the line fees for equipment. Hiding the true costs is the problem with their business model.
Letting the customer buy Joeys with no additional outlet/mirroring fees, is no different than providing DVR service to 211's and Wallys as a one time activation fee.
So you're comparing a company that just makes a product and sells it to a company that not only provides a product but has to install it and provide all the programming. I don't think it's as simple as you're making it out to be.
How much does it cost for a customer to buy a Tivo system that can best replicate what the Hopper 3 offers?
I'm not that familiar with Tivo. Are you saying that if you buy a Tivo box and pay for guide information service in your living room, you can buy three other Tivo boxes for the bedrooms and not have to pay for guide information for those Tivo boxes?
See, that's just the point I'm trying to make, and all some guys here can do is resort to making fun of my user name. Scherrman's post above says exactly what I'm trying to get across.
The fees HIDE the true costs, and give Dish (ANY provider) no reason to change.
Dish makes a SUPERIOR dvr(s), hands down I get that, I believe that. I was just as much a fanboy as you, before I was RIF'ed early due to a company takeover and I was priced out of affording my old program package (which I had already dropped down to Americas 120 the year before). Even my older VIP722k I was using is so much better than the Charter Spectrum POS dvr I've been stuck with the last year to save money. It's light years ahead of the Charter Motorola junker.
Dish keeps sending me emails begging me to come back, saying "we've changed". Then you read all the *, and they mention I'll now have to pay a higher fee for locals, AND a $15 a month fee for a dvr that I OWN. Yeah, they've changed, they raised all the fees. I installed all my own equipment, Dish has NEVER had to set foot on my property. I have NEVER been given a programming discount, just because I own my equipment.
So, I can now get the Flex pack, which has even less channels than America's 120, YET pay MORE than I was paying previously.
Sorry, I'm not biting for that deal, as it's not a good deal.
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Don't group me in with the guys making fun of your user name. I've never said anything about it before.
I'm sure I come of as a Dish fanboy but I don't try to be. I talk about Dish the most because that's what I know the most about. I don't have any experience with DirecTV or Tivo or any cable companies other than MediaCom. Most of my opinions come from being a business owner and with my knowledge of running a business and selling Dish for years. Most people who complain about Dish or any pay TV provider are just consumers and generally only think of things from one side, their own. Rarely do they think of what it would actually be if they were running that business and what it takes to be profitable. What are their expenses and what are customers demanding.
Sorry, I should have pointed out I wasn't specifically calling out YOU as one of the guys name-calling. I was just highlighting your sentence about the true costs being hidden, and I believe that's due to all these fees.
I have now edited my post above, with a little better phrasing.
ARE YOU SERIOUS? Well of course you are you want me to pay for you having as many receivers as you wish.
I'm not saying costs from all providers haven't become too high. $15 for a DVR fee is certainly on the high side though not compared to what some others charge. (Charter is $19) But it's starting to ring a little hollow about fees. If people need several rooms with a receiver or want to stand on principle as they say there is a cost for that.
First, programming is likely the most important to most and I am only willing to cut so much as witnessed by my only recent drop from Top 250 that I had since the 90's with DISH to the Top 200. It may go unnoticed but DISH has given the Top 200 more and more value to the point I lost nearly nothing changing and saving $10 a month. So I do understand when people say if I have to drop to a package without channels I want what's the point. If there is no alternative and the package price is just too high for you I 100% get you may have to drop service, maybe go only on online since either way you may lose some channels you want. That brings me to;
Second, DISH made an avenue to save $15 (turned into $20) a month with the existing customer discounts with no package price increase. I had thought I would not get into another contract again but saving $15 a month changed my mind.
I decided the principle of no contract wasn't worth the savings. On top of that, when the package price increased $5 I saved that for a total of paying $30 less. $30 is huge and it lasts for two years. So DISH has made it possible for me to save $30 giving up just about nothing.Third, for some who stayed as a long time customer they get other benefits. So I pay $7 for the DVR fee. So now I am paying $38 less. Obviously not everyone can get that discount but it is another discount DISH gives. (Side note I also still enjoy and watch the Superstations)
Fourth the amount of receivers. This is the sounding hollow part. Again no real dispute $15 DVR fee is high. But if you need three or more rooms why should I have to pay for that with higher package costs or DISH going to surcharges etc instead of someone paying the fee for those rooms. I can't say it enough, when you compare DISH to any other provider they are not out of line for total cost, aside from they are all high. So if DISH was to do what people want - no fees for additional receivers etc do you honestly think that money does not have to be made up for somewhere else?
Fifth I know a couple here disagree but I think the Flex pack is very good value overall. It comes close maybe close enough to the channels I really want with a pack or two but maybe not either pack year round and is another choice DISH has. I was considering it till the $38 saving a month came along. So far it is only rumored to be going away and it would be a bad thing if it does.
With the exception of saving $8 DVR fee that less people could do I did not get the savings in any special way and it is a hefty savings over two years about $700. More with the DVR savings. I keep the amount of receivers to a minimum and took other measures to avoid more Fees. I use the Firestick app with both Slingbox and Tivo to watch anywhere in the house. (I Got a fantastic $249 price lifetime 4 tuner TIVO from Amazon relieving the need for more tuners by recording locals with it and now it is already paid for in not paying fees for another DISH receiver) If DISH makes locals A La Carte I will likely drop them to save even more.
If you put a little work into and maybe give up a little you can save substantially and makes the $15 DVR fee not such an issue or the extra receiver fees. If you just want turn key and several receivers there is a price to pay for that.
ARE YOU SERIOUS? Well of course you are you want me to pay for you having as many receivers as you wish.
I'm not saying costs from all providers haven't become too high. $15 for a DVR fee is certainly on the high side though not compared to what some others charge. (Charter is $19) But it's starting to ring a little hollow about fees. If people need several rooms with a receiver or want to stand on principle as they say there is a cost for that.
First, programming is likely the most important to most and I am only willing to cut so much as witnessed by my only recent drop from Top 250 that I had since the 90's with DISH to the Top 200. It may go unnoticed but DISH has given the Top 200 more and more value to the point I lost nearly nothing changing and saving $10 a month. So I do understand when people say if I have to drop to a package without channels I want what's the point. If there is no alternative and the package price is just too high for you I 100% get you may have to drop service, maybe go only on online since either way you may lose some channels you want. That brings me to;
Second, DISH made an avenue to save $15 (turned into $20) a month with the existing customer discounts with no package price increase. I had thought I would not get into another contract again but saving $15 a month changed my mind.
Third, for some who stayed as a long time customer they get other benefits. So I pay $7 for the DVR fee. So now I am paying $38 less. Obviously not everyone can get that discount but it is another discount DISH gives. (Side note I also still enjoy and watch the Superstations)
Fourth the amount of receivers. This is the sounding hollow part. Again no real dispute $15 DVR fee is high. But if you need three or more rooms why should I have to pay for that with higher package costs or DISH going to surcharges etc instead of someone paying the fee for those rooms. I can't say it enough, when you compare DISH to any other provider they are not out of line for total cost, aside from they are all high. So if DISH was to do what people want - no fees for additional receivers etc do you honestly think that money does not have to be made up for somewhere else?
Fifth I know a couple here disagree but I think the Flex pack is very good value overall. It comes close maybe close enough to the channels I really want with a pack or two but maybe not either pack year round and is another choice DISH has. I was considering it till the $38 saving a month came along. So far it is only rumored to be going away and it would be a bad thing if it does.
With the exception of saving $8 DVR fee that less people could do I did not get the savings in any special way and it is a hefty savings over two years about $700. More with the DVR savings. I keep the amount of receivers to a minimum and took other measures to avoid more Fees. I use the Firestick app with both Slingbox and Tivo to watch anywhere in the house. (I Got a fantastic $249 price lifetime 4 tuner TIVO from Amazon relieving the need for more tuners by recording locals with it and now it is already paid for in not paying fees for another DISH receiver) If DISH makes locals A La Carte I will likely drop them to save even more.
If you put a little work into and maybe give up a little you can save substantially and makes the $15 DVR fee not such an issue or the extra receiver fees. If you just want turn key and several receivers there is a price to pay for that.
Aren't you able to do that now? You can drop locals and save $10 right now.
What I don't get is this contention that any fee that DISH charges somehow "Hides" the true cost of their service. None of DISH's fees are hidden. All of DISH's fees are clearly defined when signing up for service. If the fee structure is changed for existing customers, those customers are typically notified in advance of those changes.
If a customer wants DISH service without any "Fees" (other than programming), that option is available to them. Conversely, If a customer wants DISH service along with a few, or all of the "Bells and Whistles", that option is available to them, along with the associated fees, as well. If those options are going to be maintained, how can DISH roll all of the fees into the cost of the programming packages and still attempt to serve their whole customer base?
In regards to the skyrocketing cost of Pay TV, I don't think DISH's fee structure is the culprit.
Yes if they are Mini's like a Dish Joey. If they are another actual dvr then it would have a separate fee that dvr.
I have a 4 tuner Tivo Roamio Basic which does cable or OTA. I paid $100 for the dvr. The dvr/guide service is $14.99 a month, $149.00 a year or lifetime is $500? (not sure on the current cost of lifetime as I got it when it was cheaper at $349).
I have 2 Tivo Mini's I paid between $89 and $129 depending on sales. They get full guide/dvr functionality along with apps for Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Pandora, Spotify, Plex etc. The minis are just as fast as the main Tivo.
I have this setup with Cox in my home, my dads home and our Condo in Vegas. I also have a Roamio OTA (that does OTA only and comes with lifetime dvr/guide functionality built into the purchase price) at my lake house for my mom along with a mini there.
I pay Cox nothing more than the price of tv programming and internet service along with a $1.99 fee for the cable card that allows my Tivo access to the cable channels. Even if I was paying Tivo monthly for dvr/guide, I come out $40 a month cheaper than I was paying Dish for the same programming with dvr and receiver fees. I've actually been saving $100 a month for the last year since I switched and am under a new tv customer discount. My Tivo's and Mini's all paid for themselves a year ago with all the savings from not paying additional lease/mirroring fees
See, your first sentence I bolded above might be true for some people such as you and I that carefully go over every single thing written on their offers. YET, there's plenty (I think most) of people that go for the "teaser rate", don't notice the *'s next to certain things, then are totally bewildered when they get their bill as it's now at least 30%~ higher (due to fees) than they were quoted.
Dish isn't the only company to do this, but those *'s are done like that for a reason. They don't want people to really notice them, they then are trapped in a 2 year contract, and can't get out without paying yet more fees.
Now, the customer is left with believing they've just been scammed, and it starts bad feelings towards that company when they should only have good feelings. There's no way for the company to recover the good will anymore, because as far as the customer is concerned, that company cheated them right out of the gate.
So it's far more than just too high a price to pay for programming leading the charges for people to dump their legacy tv providers. People are tired of being cheated and scammed out of their hard earned money due to fine-print *'s.
Many people, right or wrong, look at Dish's main page and only see
190+ channels = $54.99/mo
240+ channels = $64.99/mo
and so on. Of course, many people get up in arms 12 or 24 months later when their price increases and they have no idea why...
That said, many cablecos are worse. I remember when Time Warner had an add'l fee for your remote control ! They also had a fee for the "guide" !
Nothing wrong with being a fanboy and I find many of your opinions helpful and valid, but as a business owner myself for over 10 years now, I personally think Dish could do things much much better. After 17 years, I could no longer continue to support Dish with rising dvr and mirror fees on equipment I owned and installed myself. It ended up costing Dish 4 long time customers as they lost myself, my dad, my sister and my step sister.
Who signs up for any service, especially one that carries a term commitment, without knowing what that service is going to cost them? I think for that to happen to any reasonable person would require actual deception on the part of the person selling the service.
Well, I look at what they are offering and what it costs and I look at what others are offering and their costs. I still feel Dish is offering me the best for what I pay. I may be paying a lot but I feel I'm getting a lot. I know I can switch to something else but it won't be as good. It won't have all the channels I want or give me HD on every TV or allow me to record multiple shows and store all of them at once. So basically what I'm saying is that there are ways to save money but we have to give up channels or features we like. We can't expect to get everything we want and not pay more, unless your needs are simple.
This is why I always recommended going to a retailer. I'm not sure if they all did it the way I did but I would write out what the pricing would be with programming and equipment fees in order to tell them what their bill will be after promotions. I would tell them to forget about the cheap price and focus on the final price because that's what you're going to end up with. Best to get it in your head right away so there's no shock.
