What is wrong with the Cleveland Indians?

It is the Curse of the Buffalo. After many years and a great working relationship with Buffalo; Cleveland got greedy and pulled their AAA team out of Buffalo and moved them to Columbus. May they rot in the cellar of the American League once again for ages.:D

There could be something there. Ever since the Orioles ended the relationship with Rochester, NY and went with Norfolk, VA...they have yet to take a wiff of a playoff contention.

That is what happens when you backstab upstate NY....LOL!:D:cool:
 
A Special Comment by HD MM on the State of the Tribe

After 32 games, nearly 20% of the 2009 season is now over. The Indians just got swept by the division rival Tigers and they now hold the worst record in the entire league. How did this happen?!?

For two years in a row, this team was expected to compete for a World Series. Peter Gammons picked the Tribe to go to the WS in '08. This year, his ESPN partner, John Kruk picked us. Yet, since the 2007 ALCS meltdown where the Red Sox came back from being down 1-3 in the 7 game series, this group has just never been the same fun loving team I saw in that Indian summer. In '07 this team had fun playing together. Smiles were all around the dug-out and paracticle jokes were common. (Anyone remember the post-game pie in the face stunts that became tradition after a win?). What I'm trying to say is that this team just hasn't been the same emotionally following that 2007 season. Since then, they seem to be pressing.

Granted, slow starts are par for an Eric Wedge coached team, but sooner or later, something's got to give. There becomes a point where you dig yourself too big of a hole to climb out of. Last year is a perfect example. Clearly we have the offensive talent to succeed. We're first in our division this year in runs scored. Last year, we were near the tops in the AL offensively, despite the injuries we sustained. Our starting pitching still remains adequate even though we traded our Ace and former Cy Younger, CC Sabathia. Sure, our starters began the season slow, but since then Cliff Lee has regained his Cy Young form and the rest of our guys are consistently getting to at least the 6th innings. The problems seem to be a multitude of things....

For the most part, it's our bullpen. Heading into this weekend, our bullpen had a 6.65 ERA, one of the worst in the AL. We've given up more leads in the 6th, 7th and 8th innings than I can count. For the most part, our biggest offseason aquisition, Kerry Wood has been light's out. It's the bridging of the gap between our starters and our closer that remains a problem. Bullpen struggles are demorilizing to a team. When a lead is given up in the late innings after the offense and starting pitching has worked so hard to get to that point, it's a blow to the psyche of a team.

Then there's the nights when our entire pitching staff is on, and our offense decides not to show up. We just haven't been able to put together too many full games where all sides of the team are in sync.

What is the solution you ask? Clearly, there is plenty of blame to go around. Is it the owner (Larry Dolan) who won't allow for a higher payroll to add more talent? Is it the GM (Mark Shapiro) who may have misused the dollars alloted to him to construct a more competitive team? Is it the manager who can't seem to get his players to play consistently? In short, I don't have the simple answer to all of our team's woes. But if I was in charge, I'd make a change now.

And that change would start with the Manager, Eric Wedge. In over 6 seasons of work, Wedgie's team has finished first once and made it to the playoffs exactly once too. His teams never start off well and seem to only do well when there is no pressure. I'm well aware that Wedgie isn't out on the mound throwing the games away, or the one standing up at-bat missing opportunities to advance runners in scoring position. But maybe, just maybe, a new outlook and mantra will be adapted by a Managerial change.

Personally, I'd love to see Grover (Mike Hargrove) back in town. I absolutely loved him as a manager during his time with the Tribe in the mid-90's. I doubt the Indians will bring him back, but he was quoted recently in the Plain Dealer that he would be interested in coaching again and he still resides here in NE Ohio (Richfield). This move would energize a fan base that still dearly holds onto memories of the powerhouse teams of the 90's. His coaching style would fit well with this team. He's experienced, readily available and loved by the orginazion and it's fan base. If anything, he may sell a few extra tickets. Grover deserves another chance and I would love to see him in the place of Wedgie in the dugout.
 
What's wrong with the Cleveland Indians? From a Detroit perspective - Not a damn thing.:D:D:D

I was looking at your line-up this past weekend, and outside of your catcher, there was nobody we had to pitch around. I don't even recognize half of the names that played anymore. Maybe, you guys were just over-rated. A change in coaching is certainly needed. But again, let me state, that here in Detroit we love Wedge.;)
 
After 32 games, nearly 20% of the 2009 season is now over. The Indians just got swept by the division rival Tigers and they now hold the worst record in the entire league. How did this happen?!?

For two years in a row, this team was expected to compete for a World Series. Peter Gammons picked the Tribe to go to the WS in '08. This year, his ESPN partner, John Kruk picked us. Yet, since the 2007 ALCS meltdown where the Red Sox came back from being down 1-3 in the 7 game series, this group has just never been the same fun loving team I saw in that Indian summer. In '07 this team had fun playing together. Smiles were all around the dug-out and paracticle jokes were common. (Anyone remember the post-game pie in the face stunts that became tradition after a win?). What I'm trying to say is that this team just hasn't been the same emotionally following that 2007 season. Since then, they seem to be pressing.

Granted, slow starts are par for an Eric Wedge coached team, but sooner or later, something's got to give. There becomes a point where you dig yourself too big of a hole to climb out of. Last year is a perfect example. Clearly we have the offensive talent to succeed. We're first in our division this year in runs scored. Last year, we were near the tops in the AL offensively, despite the injuries we sustained. Our starting pitching still remains adequate even though we traded our Ace and former Cy Younger, CC Sabathia. Sure, our starters began the season slow, but since then Cliff Lee has regained his Cy Young form and the rest of our guys are consistently getting to at least the 6th innings. The problems seem to be a multitude of things....

For the most part, it's our bullpen. Heading into this weekend, our bullpen had a 6.65 ERA, one of the worst in the AL. We've given up more leads in the 6th, 7th and 8th innings than I can count. For the most part, our biggest offseason aquisition, Kerry Wood has been light's out. It's the bridging of the gap between our starters and our closer that remains a problem. Bullpen struggles are demorilizing to a team. When a lead is given up in the late innings after the offense and starting pitching has worked so hard to get to that point, it's a blow to the psyche of a team.

Then there's the nights when our entire pitching staff is on, and our offense decides not to show up. We just haven't been able to put together too many full games where all sides of the team are in sync.

What is the solution you ask? Clearly, there is plenty of blame to go around. Is it the owner (Larry Dolan) who won't allow for a higher payroll to add more talent? Is it the GM (Mark Shapiro) who may have misused the dollars alloted to him to construct a more competitive team? Is it the manager who can't seem to get his players to play consistently? In short, I don't have the simple answer to all of our team's woes. But if I was in charge, I'd make a change now.

And that change would start with the Manager, Eric Wedge. In over 6 seasons of work, Wedgie's team has finished first once and made it to the playoffs exactly once too. His teams never start off well and seem to only do well when there is no pressure. I'm well aware that Wedgie isn't out on the mound throwing the games away, or the one standing up at-bat missing opportunities to advance runners in scoring position. But maybe, just maybe, a new outlook and mantra will be adapted by a Managerial change.

Personally, I'd love to see Grover (Mike Hargrove) back in town. I absolutely loved him as a manager during his time with the Tribe in the mid-90's. I doubt the Indians will bring him back, but he was quoted recently in the Plain Dealer that he would be interested in coaching again and he still resides here in NE Ohio (Richfield). This move would energize a fan base that still dearly holds onto memories of the powerhouse teams of the 90's. His coaching style would fit well with this team. He's experienced, readily available and loved by the orginazion and it's fan base. If anything, he may sell a few extra tickets. Grover deserves another chance and I would love to see him in the place of Wedgie in the dugout.

Expectations .....

When they were winning and having fun a few years back, they were not EXPECTED to win, now they are.
 
Expectations .....

When they were winning and having fun a few years back, they were not EXPECTED to win, now they are.

That's a good point. And I think if we're pressing we need a leader to step up in the clubhouse to ensure we don't melt to these expectations. First off, we need a strong minded Manager. I think Wedgie should be replaced. Next off, we could use a seasoned Veteran hitter in the lineup. G-Size is not a vocal guy at all. V-Mart is the closest type of leader we have on the team, but he's far from the ideal guy either. Pronk is constantly on the DL and a bit too timid. DeRo? He hasn't been here long enough.

Somebody, anybody step up and lead this team and lead!!!!
 
Awesome post above, HD. I'm pretty much with you on every point except for bringing Grover back.
 
That's a good point. And I think if we're pressing we need a leader to step up in the clubhouse to ensure we don't melt to these expectations. First off, we need a strong minded Manager. I think Wedgie should be replaced. Next off, we could use a seasoned Veteran hitter in the lineup. G-Size is not a vocal guy at all. V-Mart is the closest type of leader we have on the team, but he's far from the ideal guy either. Pronk is constantly on the DL and a bit too timid. DeRo? He hasn't been here long enough.

Somebody, anybody step up and lead this team and lead!!!!

That's a big problem. There are no vocal leaders on this team (at least position players). Paging Trot Nixon.
 
Thanks. I was wondering if anyone read that lengthy post. :eek:

Yeah, I read it. You should pick up a freelance sportswriter gig. :)

I really think Wedge needs to go. His personality may have been good when our core guys were young, but they are veterans now. Similar to what the Browns did with Mangini, I think the Indians could benefit by bringing in a "mean" boss.
 
Thanks guys. I'm touched. :eek:

BTW KCK, anymore Rick Manning "lines of the night"?

I never picked up on him sounding like John Wayne until you mentioned it in the AL Central thread. Good observation. :up
 
Thanks guys. I'm touched. :eek:

BTW KCK, anymore Rick Manning "lines of the night"?

I never picked up on him sounding like John Wayne until you mentioned it in the AL Central thread. Good observation. :up

Nah...I had the game on but was busy making dinner, etc. so I wasn't concentrating on commentary. Plus, it was a bit of a blow out.

FYI, the John Wayne thing is especially noticeable when he responds to a comment by Matt...."Yes, he did..." You expect him to tell the Tribe to go out and round up the horses any minute!!!:p
 
That's a good point. And I think if we're pressing we need a leader to step up in the clubhouse to ensure we don't melt to these expectations. First off, we need a strong minded Manager. I think Wedgie should be replaced. Next off, we could use a seasoned Veteran hitter in the lineup. G-Size is not a vocal guy at all. V-Mart is the closest type of leader we have on the team, but he's far from the ideal guy either. Pronk is constantly on the DL and a bit too timid. DeRo? He hasn't been here long enough.

Somebody, anybody step up and lead this team and lead!!!!

Don't have to be vocal to be a good/great leader ....
The non vocal guys say very little, but when the talk, others listen.
 
Loss #22 and counting.........

God forbid we win 2 in a row!!! After all, it's only happened 1 time this year.

I tell ya something. It's like robbing Peter to pay Paul! Last night, recently called up Jeremy Sowers started for the Tribe to replace our #5 Aaron Laffey who was moved to the bullpen. Laffey was doing awesome as a starter. That is before we robbed him of that role to fill our horrid bullpen. Well, wouldn't you know it, Sowers lasted only 4 innings. The game was lost before we could get to the bullpen.

And to add insult to injury, Jim Thome who's batted a measly .227 this year hit 2 home runs in his former park, against his former team, to a stadium full of boos.

Oh, one more thing. GM Mark Shapiro adressed the media before the game yesterday. He basically said Manager Eric Wedge's job was secure. Huh?! You serious Mark?!

Can we start this season over? I want to take a mulligan.
 
God forbid we win 2 in a row!!! After all, it's only happened 1 time this year.

I tell ya something. It's like robbing Peter to pay Paul! Last night, recently called up Jeremy Sowers started for the Tribe to replace our #5 Aaron Laffey who was moved to the bullpen. Laffey was doing awesome as a starter. That is before we robbed him of that role to fill our horrid bullpen. Well, wouldn't you know it, Sowers lasted only 4 innings. The game was lost before we could get to the bullpen.

And to add insult to injury, Jim Thome who's batted a measly .227 this year hit 2 home runs in his former park, against his former team, to a stadium full of boos.

Oh, one more thing. GM Mark Shapiro adressed the media before the game yesterday. He basically said Manager Eric Wedge's job was secure. Huh?! You serious Mark?!

Can we start this season over? I want to take a mulligan.

According to Rick Manning, Sowers is much better the first 2 times around the linuep. It's when guys are seeing him for the third time in a game when he struggles. If his stats back this point up, wouldn't it have made sense to have him in the 'pen and continued to use Laffey as a starter?
 
According to Rick Manning, Sowers is much better the first 2 times around the linuep. It's when guys are seeing him for the third time in a game when he struggles. If his stats back this point up, wouldn't it have made sense to have him in the 'pen and continued to use Laffey as a starter?

Yes. Another brilliant observation by The Duke.
 

Random thoughts at the start of December

NFL - Bills Head Coach just Fired

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