Watching a president tank:( (bush)

[shanewalker]

Uhh, Dragon002, I think you just showed us an photo-montage of the globe's historical right-wingers. Not a peace-nik amongst the bunch. Now, if we could do like in that Ray Bradbury short story and confine the world's wars to small teams of these guys forced to kill each other or be killed and leave the rest of us to just be, that'd be sweet. Problem is, the rest of us are constantly caught in the crossfire of the far right and their power-grabs.

 

[dragon002]

Uhh, Dragon002, I think you just showed us an illustrated portrait of the globe's historical right-wingers. Not a peace-nik amongst the bunch. Now, if we could do like in that Ray Bradbury short story and confine the world's wars to small teams of these guys forced to kill each other or be killed and leave the rest of us to just be, that'd be sweet. Problem is, the rest of us are constantly caught in the crossfire of the far right and their power-grabs.

uh, shane,

it was sarcasm, and most were left wing nut cases.

 

[shanewalker]

No, sorry, they're right wingers. Hard-line right conservatives all. Stalin. Hitler. Nikita Khrushchev. Pretty much the lot. They may have been 'revolutionaries' in the sense of unseating status quo powers (therefore your confusion w/ cliches like 'leftist rebels' and the like), but once seated, they were authoritarian/dictatorial right-wingers that appealed to right-wing ulta-conservative values of militant nationalism...that's why some around America are upset w/ the Washington trends these days. Don't think any of them were reformers of the Ghandi or Martin Luther King, Jr. type. THOSE are lefties to be sure. Peace. Equality. Idiots.

See, I get sarcasm.

Here's a link to some definitions/background on "Left"/"Right" politics at Wikipedia (really good, shows how fuzzy the definitions get, and how preoccupied we've become w/ these labels the last, oh, six years):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-right_politics

 

[dragon002]

shane,

ok ill give you the nationalism.

economics...total left wing.

politically...total left wing.

in ww2 there may have been a semi right winger , but he was not european. hirihito, of japan.

 

[T2k]

Actually I - as somebody grew up under a Commie-regime - believe there's no right or left but simply dictatorship. Slogans are only important to show which 'camp' that dictatorship belongs to, nothing else.

Extreme left is just as dangerous as extreme right is.

 

[shanewalker]

Communism/Socialism, economically, yes, left (as opposed to now defunct Monarchic Right). It's up for debate as to whether Stalin and Nikita would be Left by modern definitions though (see below). T2K is correct--the definitions here have shifted under modern Western usage.

Politically, autocracy and dictatorships are commonly referred to as hard right.

And, Hitler was right-wing. Every credible source I've seen makes that clear. And any mention of his and the KKK's modern 'children', the neo-Nazis, denotes them as extreme right. That's one big reason the Democrats/Liberals lost their traditional hold on the Southern tier states, despite their historical support of the American farmer. The modern American right played to that 'forgotten' "base", and the rest is, as they say, red state history (note another Wikipedia entry concerning recent election Red/Blue state maps and how they correlate w/ the state affiliations during the Civil War -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_state ). That's also why it enrages true Christians that the same political bodies claim to be the Holy Ones. Hypocrites.

"I hate Illinois Nazis"--John Belushi, "The Blues Brothers"

 

[Bob Haller]

A new record for the Moron in Chief. approval rate down to 33%. how low can it go?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/15/AR2006031501360.html

 

[T2k]

economics...total left wing.

politically...total left wing.

Khm, history/politics 101: per definitionem fascism = strong dictatoric control over both economy and politics and society (ie supressing individual rights etc) ergo it's not really left...

BTW its first condition is to have an economy where corporations and government together rule, giving corporations more power at the same time stripping individual rights. Sounds familiar? Of course, because this is pretty much the phase we're headed now: corporations are already in bed with the executive power which is already running amok for years now, abusing its power to make sure corporations can maximize their profit, seriously hurting the nation'economical power and future - the only thing missing from this condition is the stripped down individual rights. Do you want to go further down this road? No, we don't Are we going to? I don't know... do you?

 

[T2k]

And, Hitler was right-wing. Every credible source I've seen makes that clear. And any mention of his and the KKK's modern 'children', the neo-Nazis, denotes them as extreme right. That's one big reason the Democrats/Liberals lost their traditional hold on the Southern tier states, despite their historical support of the American farmer. The modern American right played to that 'forgotten' "base", and the rest is, as they say, red state history (note another Wikipedia entry concerning recent election Red/Blue state maps and how they correlate w/ the state affiliations during the Civil War -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_state ). That's also why it enrages true Christians that the same political bodies claim to be the Holy Ones. Hypocrites.

"I hate Illinois Nazis"--John Belushi, "The Blues Brothers"

It's correct. Actually it's never been debated - he was a right-wing extremist, and Nazi movement was based on a full-blown extreme right-wing ideology, similar to Italian Fascism.

 

[NightHawk]

And, Hitler was right-wing. Every credible source I've seen makes that clear. And any mention of his and the KKK's modern 'children', the neo-Nazis, denotes them as extreme right. That's one big reason the Democrats/Liberals lost their traditional hold on the Southern tier states, despite their historical support of the American farmer. The modern American right played to that 'forgotten' "base", and the rest is, as they say, red state history

That's rich. Now it's the fault of the KKK that the democrats lost the election.

 

[NightHawk]

because this is pretty much the phase we're headed now: corporations are already in bed with the executive power which is already running amok for years now, abusing its power to make sure corporations can maximize their profit, seriously hurting the nation'economical power and future - the only thing missing from this condition is the stripped down individual rights.

Give us an example. I'm betting I know where you go with this one.

 

[shanewalker]

Per the Red State comments above...and the insinuation that the 'Old South' mentality was a preyed upon factor in the recent election.

Uh, yeah, its out there. I didn't just make all that up on the fly. It's called the Culture War. Do a Google, look up these topics, they've been discussed all over the place.

As for T2K and the corporate/executive branch collusion...two words, "Kenny Boy". Why can't we get transcripts of those energy meetings?

 

[NightHawk]

Per the Red State comments above...and the insinuation that the 'Old South' mentality was a preyed upon factor in the recent election.

Uh, yeah, its out there. I didn't just make all that up on the fly. It's called the Culture War. Do a Google, look up these topics, they've been discussed all over the place.

As for T2K and the corporate/executive branch collusion...two words, "Kenny Boy". Why can't we get transcripts of those energy meetings?

So George Bush is to blame for ENRON also? Wow, you can really connect the dots.

That's not where I thought T2k was going though.

The democrats didn't lose the election because of the KKK or any 'old south' implied mentality. It's a ridiculous statement. Get off the Google and think for yourself.

 

[shanewalker]

No, thats an example of corporate interests in bed w/ the executive branch, i.e. Bush and particularly Cheney, setting policy to the detriment of the American public. Heard about those rolling blackouts, did you...that was that wonderful dereg/'Energy Policy' they were so proud of in glorious action. And when asked about those documented meetings, Cheney, the coward, claims executive priviledge and won't let the transcripts out.

No dots to connect. Its a matter of record. I really recommend reading the newspaper, some books, seeing a documentary or two (like I said, "Enron:Smartest Guys in the Room" based on the book by a Fortune mag journalist and comprised of source materials ranging from Senate testimony to actual trader phone-call recordings, really shows what Enron was doing)--it does wonders to stay informed.

 

[NightHawk]

I know, like before, conspiracies everywhere. It's only natural when viewing the world through a soda straw. What's an American to do. Your lost my friend. Good Night.

 

[Bob Haller]

4/15 Americans soldiers kill some innocent civilians, Saddam says quit fighting amoung yourselves kill the americans. Trial is a joke. Iraquis attack americans at a mosque.

Were REAL close to a full blown civil war. Bush poll approval number 34% Republicans now call for a whitehouse personell shakeup and one replublican questioned bush competence.

Frankly a complete breakdown and civil war is probably the only out we have. I hope it happens, we withdraw, and saddam will llikely become president again.

dont want saddam as president, although more than likely his guards would kill him when things fall apart totally

 

[dragon002]

That's rich. Now it's the fault of the KKK that the democrats lost the election.

does that surprise you? they blame everyone, from the kkk to the us supreme court to stupid voters. it is their failed policies, ie, welfare, the great society programs, tax and spend....etc.

 

[dragon002]

4/15 Americans soldiers kill some innocent civilians, Saddam says quit fighting amoung yourselves kill the americans. Trial is a joke. Iraquis attack americans at a mosque.

Were REAL close to a full blown civil war. Bush poll approval number 34% Republicans now call for a whitehouse personell shakeup and one replublican questioned bush competence.

Frankly a complete breakdown and civil war is probably the only out we have. I hope it happens, we withdraw, and saddam will llikely become president again.

dont want saddam as president, although more than likely his guards would kill him when things fall apart totally

bob,

WTF do bushes poll ratings have to do with any freakin thing??

civilians always get killed in wars, we bombed berlin into the ground, we didnt check for civilians.

civil war, so what ? pull out of the towns and let them slaughter each other, hell it will be less for us to kill later. funny thing though, you never hear of civil war in the kurdish areas.

and if civil war comes, they will kill saddam on the way out, take that to the bank. one less maggot on earth.

 

[dragon002]

No, thats an example of corporate interests in bed w/ the executive branch, i.e. Bush and particularly Cheney, setting policy to the detriment of the American public. Heard about those rolling blackouts, did you...that was that wonderful dereg/'Energy Policy' they were so proud of in glorious action. And when asked about those documented meetings, Cheney, the coward, claims executive priviledge and won't let the transcripts out.

No dots to connect. Its a matter of record. I really recommend reading the newspaper, some books, seeing a documentary or two (like I said, "Enron:Smartest Guys in the Room" based on the book by a Fortune mag journalist and comprised of source materials ranging from Senate testimony to actual trader phone-call recordings, really shows what Enron was doing)--it does wonders to stay informed.

wow shane,

gray davis did the blackout thing after HE implemented electric REGULATION and set prices so low no electric company could afford to sell to california. they would have lost money.

and he was a democrat. the state house and senate were democrat.
you are going to try to blame bush and cheney for that one??

BTW, the tree hugging libs are keeping us dependant on foriegn oil by blocking drilling in the gulf, the coasts and anwar (that pristine shithole) and stopping nuke reactors from being built for the last 30 years.

 

[shanewalker]

You're ill informed about what really happened during the blackouts. The state had all the power it needed and it was transferred out by the Enron traders. You don't have to trust me, you can SEE and HEAR for yourself if you'd take the time to look at the doc and other credible sources. Gray Davis acted foolish and rolled over on several accounts, but he nor directly his policies caused the blackouts. It was the manipulation of the deregulated system by and the direct orders of Enron employees to the power stations that directly caused them. Go check it out and then come back and spout your vitriol.

I'm getting tired of talking to brick walls here. I thought by injecting some signposts to facts and evidence, that a real dialogue/debate would occur, but some of you don't want to have an adult conversaton based on reality. Enjoy your delusions.

Shane out.