Watching a president tank:( (bush)
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Weezknight said:
It's the fault of the people...there are MANY parties to choose from, but people ignore them, because they feel there's no chance of them winning.
The other problem is that people choose to be ignorant and believe this "red state blue state" crap. They tend to latch onto one issue and ignore the rest. Bush got elected based on the religious divide. They somehow got Christians to believe that Republicans are the "Christian party". They aren't- they are the Religious Right party. Bush has never performed a Christian act in his life, but he caters to the psychotic Religious Right.
This leads to good, normal, mainstream Christians like my father to believe that the Republicans support his ideals. Realistically, my dad is a Liberatarian...more so than myself. But he doesn't KNOW he's a Liberatarian, because no one but me ever explained it to him. (There's no money in being a Liberatarian, so no one funds them, so they can't get their message out.) Realistically, most American conservatives are Libratarians. It's technically a MORE extreme right wing position, but without the meddling in people's personal lives. Likewise, the Democrats are painted as being ultra liberal- but a true liberal should be voting Green.
Rather than think about the issues, it's easier for my father to say "Bush says he Christian, I'm Christian, I'm voting for Bush." If he bothered to examine things even on a superficial level, he'd see he disagrees with Bush more than he agrees. He's even admitted he doesn't like Bush. And he never could give me a straight reason why he wouldn't vote for Kerry. He's a victim of brainwashing. ( I could give a hundred reasons not to vote for Kerry, but "he's not as horrible as Bush" outweighed them all.)
There is also a sentiment of anti-intellectualism sweeping the country. Many people seemed to vote for Bush because he seemed...well...more like them. I will NEVER understand this way of thinking. You aren't electing the freaking student council...this is a world leader! Sure, I'd rather have a beer with Bush than Kerry. He proabably knows some good dirty jokes. Give him a talk show or something- don't put your life in his hands.
The GOP is actually based in sound political principles- so much so that I used to identify myself as a Republican. But so few Republicans actually stand for what they are supposed to stand for, I had to drop out.
The culture war is destroying this country. The federal government should protect people from financial and physical harm, help build infrastructure, protect OUR borders...that's about it! If they would stop getting involved in our personal lives, we wouldn't be on the verge of civil war, and we could elect our leaders on the basis of political beliefs and leadership ability.
NightHawk said:
Perhaps for you, over there in the FauxNews-wild but for us, people being able to read and hear several news sources it's old news, believe me.
Disprove it. Do your research on the subject before you get embarrased, pal...
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dragon002 said:
Yes.
And in recent years I've started a 'quest' here too, for another, a completely different (arts) degree.
(I know, it's waaay too liberal to have many degrees and actually to know something about an area...
)I fixed it for you.
Ummm excuse me?
I'm afraid I'm having hard time to follow you...shugo77 said:See, that is a firm example of what is wrong with Liberals, they will actively seek out, search for and report negative news, but refuse to report or look for good news.
All liberals do is complain about everything, they have no plan and they offer no plan, they just complain.
The only agenda liberals have is negativity towards Bush and conservatives, and that is why they can't win elections.
As long as liberals keep behaving in this negative, and doom and gloom manor, we conservatives have nothing to worry about, so I say "Bring it On" because America will not elect a bunch of negative doom and gloom naysayers, it just won't happen.
I have a feeling you have some serious reading comprehension problem - what are you talking about, pal?
dragon002 said:
How about that one? It is about people, not square miles. Who cares how many jackrabbits in rural Wyoming vote republican. Only those of us who live out here can probably undrstand just how thinly populated the mountain west is.
What I find interesting is the number of counties (and states) that Bush won by a narrow margin is higher than the reverse. That leads to the 2000 election where Bush actually lost the popular vote, but won due to narrow victories in key states and big losses in other states. BTW, that data is confirmed in the website you quoted.
dragon002 said:
Dragon
This can not be- since Bush stole the 1st election and comitted war crimes during his 1st term it is impossible that more people voted for him in the 2nd election.
It can only be explained one of two ways
1 the above 2 dem talking points never happened- The country knows this to be true
2- the dems failed to get out the "dead" vote and multiple homeless vote - Also true
1- a perfectly valid fearEric Goempel said:
2- they SHOULD be kicked out, but they won't because Republicans get rich off their backs.
3-Huh? Most of the poor DO have jobs...crappy ones...because the rich get richer if they don't pay people what they are worth. I've never earned more than $25,000 a year, and I'm college educated. Luckly, my wife works for a company that values their employees and she keeps us in the middle class. (And "middle class" isn't an easy life anymore either...we just don't starve anymore.) If I wasn't married, I'd be poor. And I have never been unemployed for more than a month since I was 16. Are there lazy people living off the government out there? Of course, and they make me sick. But that's not why we have a huge class of poor people. (It would help if the poor would stop rutting and spitting out kids, but that's another issue.)
4- "He"s not?
5- Unions- the opposite side of the problem. Employers want to pay people too little, Unions want too much. In an ideal world, the free market and a sense of morality would make sure people are paid fairly.
T2K
Call down man- Breath deep- correcting grammar errors only weakens your see through agenda.
It looks like the more the dems have their talking points blasted away the more they turn to hate speak and spinning on to irrelevant subjects.
Call down man- Breath deep- correcting grammar errors only weakens your see through agenda.
It looks like the more the dems have their talking points blasted away the more they turn to hate speak and spinning on to irrelevant subjects.
Eric--
Let me be the first to say, as an American, and a human being--I respect your bravery in going into harms way and I appreciate your sacrifice for this country; likewise I empathize w/ your situation currently. Such is not a party or political issue.
However, I am dismayed by your cartoonish and sterotypical painting of the Democrats/Liberals/anyone away from the far right, as I think you haven't looked at reality, but instead been overwrought by Republican propaganda and NeoCon dogma. As I said, I'm a moderate--conservative on some issues (for example, drug and some aspects of foreign policy), more liberal on others. I have lots of friends who are Libertarian, some who are Independent/Green, some Dem, some Rep, so I get how the different crowds think. Everyone is free to believe what they want, of course, but this statement about 'sticking with those who stand for something', as you say, touches a nerve. I've watched beloved family members, themselves victim of right-wing agenda/policies AS IMPLEMENTED IN THE REAL WORLD, spout the same GOP bullet points as to why they voted for/support them nevertheless. You are only being placated by their rhetoric if you are: working class, middle class, a consumer, a lover of nature/outdoorsmanship, a small businessman, and the average VET--in short, any of the 99th majority percentile of the American public. The great majority of public policy of the right wing serves the upper 1% in income/net wealth and large corporations: from tax relief to deregulation structures, the vast majority of US get the short end, i.e. downsized to boost stock prices in the short term, they pay up more in fees, suffer poorer product/service quality and breath, eat, drink dirtier stuff just so someone in that elite can squeeze a bit more profit out of the system. It's 'good old boy' backroom deals, and the insiders always win. Look at the number of billionaires created last year--a record number. Meanwhile, your benefits shrink as theirs' expand. The reason--the realities of basic human nature, people will do whatever they think they can get away with, and the more wealthy/powerful, the more exponentially that desire and the efficacy and potentcy of the mechanisms (read, political/economic). They use diversionary and emotional tactics to pump you up and keep you from seeing the base reality of their agenda (both major Parties do this--hell, everyone does this). They're just selfish typical A-type personalities who happen to be running things. That's why we're supposed (by design if not implementation) to have a goverment w/ built-in checks and balances, and an independent (ibid) press...to keep this all hopefully in some sort of ethical control/constraint--otherwise, its teacher out of the room and the classroom is dog-eat-dog chaos, no learning, no civility for the good students as the hell-raisers take over. Ever live in a big city or a small town where a couple of families and large companies effectively run the show? That's America. And if you're not in the boardroom, you're little more to those who are in the room than a chess piece.
Please. Don't get played. Look into the history of things, the real data, don't fall sway to the hype and false-piety facades these guys are some deft at wielding. You deserve to pursue whatever belief system you want, this is a free society, but you should, as a matter of self-respect, do so after looking deep, and peering behind the curtain.
Let me be the first to say, as an American, and a human being--I respect your bravery in going into harms way and I appreciate your sacrifice for this country; likewise I empathize w/ your situation currently. Such is not a party or political issue.
However, I am dismayed by your cartoonish and sterotypical painting of the Democrats/Liberals/anyone away from the far right, as I think you haven't looked at reality, but instead been overwrought by Republican propaganda and NeoCon dogma. As I said, I'm a moderate--conservative on some issues (for example, drug and some aspects of foreign policy), more liberal on others. I have lots of friends who are Libertarian, some who are Independent/Green, some Dem, some Rep, so I get how the different crowds think. Everyone is free to believe what they want, of course, but this statement about 'sticking with those who stand for something', as you say, touches a nerve. I've watched beloved family members, themselves victim of right-wing agenda/policies AS IMPLEMENTED IN THE REAL WORLD, spout the same GOP bullet points as to why they voted for/support them nevertheless. You are only being placated by their rhetoric if you are: working class, middle class, a consumer, a lover of nature/outdoorsmanship, a small businessman, and the average VET--in short, any of the 99th majority percentile of the American public. The great majority of public policy of the right wing serves the upper 1% in income/net wealth and large corporations: from tax relief to deregulation structures, the vast majority of US get the short end, i.e. downsized to boost stock prices in the short term, they pay up more in fees, suffer poorer product/service quality and breath, eat, drink dirtier stuff just so someone in that elite can squeeze a bit more profit out of the system. It's 'good old boy' backroom deals, and the insiders always win. Look at the number of billionaires created last year--a record number. Meanwhile, your benefits shrink as theirs' expand. The reason--the realities of basic human nature, people will do whatever they think they can get away with, and the more wealthy/powerful, the more exponentially that desire and the efficacy and potentcy of the mechanisms (read, political/economic). They use diversionary and emotional tactics to pump you up and keep you from seeing the base reality of their agenda (both major Parties do this--hell, everyone does this). They're just selfish typical A-type personalities who happen to be running things. That's why we're supposed (by design if not implementation) to have a goverment w/ built-in checks and balances, and an independent (ibid) press...to keep this all hopefully in some sort of ethical control/constraint--otherwise, its teacher out of the room and the classroom is dog-eat-dog chaos, no learning, no civility for the good students as the hell-raisers take over. Ever live in a big city or a small town where a couple of families and large companies effectively run the show? That's America. And if you're not in the boardroom, you're little more to those who are in the room than a chess piece.
Please. Don't get played. Look into the history of things, the real data, don't fall sway to the hype and false-piety facades these guys are some deft at wielding. You deserve to pursue whatever belief system you want, this is a free society, but you should, as a matter of self-respect, do so after looking deep, and peering behind the curtain.
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M Sparks said:
1- only to those preacing FEAR- my family has no such fear- or any woman I know
2- it is the Republicans that are tring to keep them out- IE the fence to stop them- they are a HUGE democrat voting base!
3- My wife has a high school education and makes 50K+ a year. Maybe you shouldnt have studied liberal arts or whatever- It is a free market, get a BETTER job. NOT that hard- we live in one of the most depressed parts of the country and she changed from a 45k to 55k a year job LAST WEEK!!
4- "he" is not, only in your eyes, and why is it everytime a minority makes something of their lives the turn republican and become labeled an "uncle tom" by the dems?
5- this is the only free market left in the world. Why are people flooding INTO America from all over the world yet no one seams to be leaving. Wait Alec Baldwin did promiss to leave yet flip floped on his word like a true dem when Bush was re-elected. Try talking to people from other countries, they would kill to have our system of government!
T2k said:Yes.
And in recent years I've started a 'quest' here too, for another, a completely different (arts) degree.
(I know, it's waaay too liberal to have many degrees and actually to know something about an area...
OH, FIGURES, A PROFESSIONAL STUDENT
I fixed it for you.
THANKS.
Ummm excuse me?
THAT FIGURES.
dragon002 said:THAT FIGURES.
Definitely.
But I have a strong feeling you don't get it which way...
T2k said:
Exactly which part of what I said did you not understand?
Let me know and I can attempt to simplify it for you, pal.
T2k said:
Your joking right? Did you miss my post with the USA Today poll? It's typical. Blind to anything that doesn't support your point.
There are obviously contradicting polls on any issue, especially on this one. I served 22 years, much of it overseas and believe me, soldiers in combat dissatisfied with their current status is no earth-shattering newsflash. The numbers are bound to fluctuate and both polls are meaningless.
I'm so embarrassed. Get a grip.
Eric Goempel said:
?
Tell me you aren't talking about the sarcasm above... no way somebody didn't get that...
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