Watching a president tank:( (bush)
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Bob Haller said:
no bob, the military did not lose in Vietnam. that is a lie and you know it. point ,,,,tet offensive, they thru everything they had at us and we killed them by the thousands!
the protesters and the lib politicians lost that one, our military can hold its head high. it always has and always will.
BTW euroweenie tk2, i do believe that we inherited Vietnam after we had to go in and save the French's sorry yellow asses from getting annihilated. so there is one for your high brow , spineless notebook.
Ignorant is not knowing better. A shame, but not a moral fault.
Stupid is not caring whether one knows any better or not. That's pathetic and reprehensible.
America is getting stupid under the Neo-Cons...this thread is e-proof.
BTW, my family is Baptist and Catholic, many members devoutly so. I grew up in what has been touted as a bell-weather state that last election was 'red'. My father's side of the family have farms, and have raised beef cattle and dairy. My mother's side is Roman Catholic Italian, blue-collar. Oh, and my father worked for an oil company for a quarter century.
So, by all accounts, I should be a raving right winger, right? No, I'm a free thinking moderate--conservative on some things, lib on others. My own man. My parents thought it would be a good idea if I went to college, learned a few things, met people not like me. I did, it was good for me. Otherwise, I'd be simple/narrow-minded and be afraid of reading and getting the FACTS, too. My family, both sides, have tended towards voting Republican lately--but they respect different opinions and have come to despise their choices at the ballot box of late. My father-in-law, a staunch Republican and successful businessman, confided that he felt totally taken by Bush on several accounts. My grandmother got suckered by the facade of piety/Christian "values" that Rove dressed 'W' in, and admits it. I feel lucky to have people around me that are adults like that, and can see reality for what it is and admit where things, including their own choices, go astray. Only my brother-in-law's side of the family are wing-nut country-club preppie conservative types that expect all the children to vote the party line and have certain hair-cuts and blah blah as if they couldn't make up their own minds about their lives/choices/tastes. Sounds like some around here are trapped in little worlds of their own creation, full of knee-jerk rhetoric and posturing, a true sign of not having given these matters much real thought...
Just keep trusting those hierarchies and take your orders--right off the cliff.
Stupid is not caring whether one knows any better or not. That's pathetic and reprehensible.
America is getting stupid under the Neo-Cons...this thread is e-proof.
BTW, my family is Baptist and Catholic, many members devoutly so. I grew up in what has been touted as a bell-weather state that last election was 'red'. My father's side of the family have farms, and have raised beef cattle and dairy. My mother's side is Roman Catholic Italian, blue-collar. Oh, and my father worked for an oil company for a quarter century.
So, by all accounts, I should be a raving right winger, right? No, I'm a free thinking moderate--conservative on some things, lib on others. My own man. My parents thought it would be a good idea if I went to college, learned a few things, met people not like me. I did, it was good for me. Otherwise, I'd be simple/narrow-minded and be afraid of reading and getting the FACTS, too. My family, both sides, have tended towards voting Republican lately--but they respect different opinions and have come to despise their choices at the ballot box of late. My father-in-law, a staunch Republican and successful businessman, confided that he felt totally taken by Bush on several accounts. My grandmother got suckered by the facade of piety/Christian "values" that Rove dressed 'W' in, and admits it. I feel lucky to have people around me that are adults like that, and can see reality for what it is and admit where things, including their own choices, go astray. Only my brother-in-law's side of the family are wing-nut country-club preppie conservative types that expect all the children to vote the party line and have certain hair-cuts and blah blah as if they couldn't make up their own minds about their lives/choices/tastes. Sounds like some around here are trapped in little worlds of their own creation, full of knee-jerk rhetoric and posturing, a true sign of not having given these matters much real thought...
Just keep trusting those hierarchies and take your orders--right off the cliff.
I'd say the thing a real President would've done would have been to call the cards that were really dealt. That means, go after the families and collaborators of all the 9/11 hijackers NO MATTER WHAT COUNTRY they were harbored in. Hold the Pakistani, Saudi, and UAE gov'ts accountable and if they refused entry to track people down...THAT'S WHO YOU PICK A FIGHT WITH! Iraq was the biggest piece of smokescreen bull that anyone could have imagined--except the 'old team' that had them on the s*** list as a #1 priority from day one.
I have as much moral rage about 9/11 as anyone--and I'm doubly pissed at how distracted our citizens have been from what real retribution and justice should have been carried out. We should have shaken the pillars of several seats of power in the Middle East and would've had 100% justification...but now all that currency has been spent and the world could care less about our hypocritical asses. Anyone who says "I don't care what the rest of the world thinks" is a fool--WWI and WWII weren't won unilaterally, and this one won't either. But more to the point, if someone is wanting to impart wisdom, to be a true friend and ally, not just a stooge, I think a wise soul would listen. That's how I act to the people around me. This administration wants nothing of it, they want puppets, not peers. And were paying for it.
My line seems to suffer at the hands of bullies and fools like these chicken hawks in DC...for instance, since you seem interested in my Italian heritage, one of my uncles, a Sicilian, had his soda bottling plant torched by the mob for refusing to pay protection. He lost his livelihood temporarily, but at least he kept his honor as a real man. We're being led by the type that'll sidle up to any crook or cretin who'll keep them in the goods. Why would I support the act of sacrificing our brave youth for these schmucks and their twisted agenda?
I hope we don't follow the Romans into the annals of fallen empires. We keep dumbing ourselves down and we'll be easy pickings for the next giant economic force.
I have as much moral rage about 9/11 as anyone--and I'm doubly pissed at how distracted our citizens have been from what real retribution and justice should have been carried out. We should have shaken the pillars of several seats of power in the Middle East and would've had 100% justification...but now all that currency has been spent and the world could care less about our hypocritical asses. Anyone who says "I don't care what the rest of the world thinks" is a fool--WWI and WWII weren't won unilaterally, and this one won't either. But more to the point, if someone is wanting to impart wisdom, to be a true friend and ally, not just a stooge, I think a wise soul would listen. That's how I act to the people around me. This administration wants nothing of it, they want puppets, not peers. And were paying for it.
My line seems to suffer at the hands of bullies and fools like these chicken hawks in DC...for instance, since you seem interested in my Italian heritage, one of my uncles, a Sicilian, had his soda bottling plant torched by the mob for refusing to pay protection. He lost his livelihood temporarily, but at least he kept his honor as a real man. We're being led by the type that'll sidle up to any crook or cretin who'll keep them in the goods. Why would I support the act of sacrificing our brave youth for these schmucks and their twisted agenda?
I hope we don't follow the Romans into the annals of fallen empires. We keep dumbing ourselves down and we'll be easy pickings for the next giant economic force.
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shane ,
im half italian. i was not interested, i was stating fact.
im abruzzi and calabrazi.
yes we should have gone after all of them, but the oil is there and we run on it.
we need anwar, we need rigs off the florida and the LA coasts, but the NYMBY croud does not want it. we need wind turbines off of nantucket, but teddy and kerry dont want it!
we need 30 more nuke generating power plants in the next 5 years, the treee huggers are going to fight it.
remember the snail darter, hell i would have tramped on the last two!!
we need COAL, and burn it , to make electricity
and we have more coal than any other country!!
ethanol??, turn the corn to car fuel and tell the rest of the world, you treat us like this, we are gonna burn the food for fuel, STARVE.
your thoughts??
im half italian. i was not interested, i was stating fact.
im abruzzi and calabrazi.
yes we should have gone after all of them, but the oil is there and we run on it.
we need anwar, we need rigs off the florida and the LA coasts, but the NYMBY croud does not want it. we need wind turbines off of nantucket, but teddy and kerry dont want it!
we need 30 more nuke generating power plants in the next 5 years, the treee huggers are going to fight it.
remember the snail darter, hell i would have tramped on the last two!!
we need COAL, and burn it , to make electricity
and we have more coal than any other country!!
ethanol??, turn the corn to car fuel and tell the rest of the world, you treat us like this, we are gonna burn the food for fuel, STARVE.
your thoughts??
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dragon002 said:
Ultimately the US LOST VIETNAM! The reasons dont matter in the end we pulled out and the country became communist.
But the world didnt end, the world didnt adopt communism
I'm all for any energy solution that's localized, renewable and doesn't give kids asthma, adults melanomas or fish second heads. Fish shouldn't have two heads. Chicken's neither.
I recommend looking at the alternative fuels and research mutual funds that are cropping up and doing quite well. They show what's being worked on right now--and you might just make a buck or two as well. I did (figure money should go where my pie-hole goes). Walkin' the walk...not just talkin' the talk. Or was that Elvis I wanted to quote..."A little more action, a little less conversation, baby!"
I recommend looking at the alternative fuels and research mutual funds that are cropping up and doing quite well. They show what's being worked on right now--and you might just make a buck or two as well. I did (figure money should go where my pie-hole goes). Walkin' the walk...not just talkin' the talk. Or was that Elvis I wanted to quote..."A little more action, a little less conversation, baby!"
Bob Haller said:Ultimately the US LOST VIETNAM! The reasons dont matter in the end we pulled out and the country became communist.
But the world didnt end, the world didnt adopt communism
No BOB. It was just one of trhe several places the US stood against communism. We pulled back because of weak support at home but they lost in the end.
shanewalker said:
Witless? You have nothing other than "it's just gotta be there I know it" What is this magic source of energy? I'm an engineer so I know something about science and your platitudes about renewable energy sources sound nice but ultimately unrealistic. We are not at the "end of days" and Iraq is not the apocalypse. The US leads the world in technology and corn is not the answer. The entire world is working on finding the next answer, as it should be, but for now it's very short-sighted to condone crippling the worlds economic engine because of prehistoric madmen who currently control the worlds energy source because of a simple geographic happenstance.
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NightHawk said:
we lost because from day one the military wasnt allowed to overpower and overwhelm the enemy.
to win a war you have to be strong. the last war we won was WW2 both germany and japan.
collateral damage has to be enflicted so the loser knows they lost.
Hey these citys are gone? guess we lost huh?
hey everything is the same except some occupying troops, we can make them leave......
When your country is totally trashed you want and need the occupiers to help rebuild, you dont want to kill them and make them leave, because you have nothing.
future wars should go like this...
hey saddam baghdad will cease to exist in one week, leveled by carpetbombing. evacuate your residents today. then drop warning bomb leaflets. one week layer start at one end of town ad move slowlky to the other, giving the residents a place to flee too.
next week is saddams hometown, then XXXX and do it.
pretty soon the people around the president will take him out to prevent futher destruction.
now sadly innocents die, and thats terrible. but lots of innocents are dying in iraq today, more residents have been killed in the war than by all of saddams massacres, and the citys lack essentials like running water and power.
selective wars are obsolete. if you go to war the enemy must be obliterated
or you dont win.....
carpet bombing and warning???? nope.
24 hours, then it is thermo-nuclear destruction, hey it is quick and none of our guys gets hurt.
hey bob ill be in east liberty and penn hills today, maybe i can shoot the finger at the peacenicks today!!
24 hours, then it is thermo-nuclear destruction, hey it is quick and none of our guys gets hurt.
hey bob ill be in east liberty and penn hills today, maybe i can shoot the finger at the peacenicks today!!
Bob Haller said:hey saddam baghdad will cease to exist in one week, leveled by carpetbombing. evacuate your residents today. then drop warning bomb leaflets. one week layer start at one end of town ad move slowlky to the other, giving the residents a place to flee too.
selective wars are obsolete. if you go to war the enemy must be obliterated
OK it's all or nothing for you. I'll go with it. Are you saying this is what George Bush should have done? Should we do nothing? Should we nuke Tehran, Damascus, Baghdad, Riyhad and Pyongyang. Why stop there? Might just as well take out Peking while we are in the area.
shanewalker said:
You're wasting your time imparting the truth to these right wing nut cretins here. Base on the most recent legitimate polls George "Mission Accomplished" Bush is favored by a minority of Americans. His disaproval is more than 50% for every factor including the war on terror.
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dragon002 said:
NO WHERE DID I SAY NUKE THATS OVERKILL, like shooting a dead horse, accomplishes nothing.
what you do is carpet bomb citys out of existence gone. use b52 and cruise missles.
of course its better to have the world on your side.
next week IO will be at the anti war rally....
NightHawk said:
wether or not bush should of invaded if you invade you do it right.
selective war just breeds more grief look at korea as a example
or kennedys bay of pigs with cuba, cuba went on to create lots of trouble although today he is old and more like a aging irritant,.//
Yeah bushes disapproval poll numbers are so great the replublicans will pay the ultimate price during the coming congressional election.
that probably sparked the houses block port sale to fund war bill.
attempt by house to prove they arent a bush rubber stamp. since bush promised to veto any bill blocking port sale.
I DONT believe this will help the voters anger over how the country is going...
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T2k said:
Easy bush makes an statement and it is what he BELIEVES, not what will gain a vote with whatever group is in front of him. and then he sticks by what he says he will do. Something ZERO Dem's do.
Being a VET from a long line of Vets (burying my 86 year old WW2 grandfather VET TODAY, I believe the military is the simple most important job of the federal government. The rest should be set at state level.
Kerry was a bold faced liar and no one could believe anything that came out of his mouth. At least with bush you know what you are getting.
BTW since the Iraq war is such a failure did you know that in new Orleans in 2005 up until BEFORE the hurricane hit more people in that one city were murdered than all the military people in BOTH Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED? this is 100% fact. so i'm not sure how you can call Iraq a 100% failure? Explain that to me.
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