Watching a president tank:( (bush)

[dragon002]

Ahh time to do that was day ONE, or immediately after we took over and looting occured.

It never improved

Bush said we dont want to take over, so we left a lawless country thats a training ground for terrorism.

I JUST HOPE THE FLL BLOWN CIVIL WAR BEGINS SOON AND WE PULL OUT!

bob, you posted this at 12:30. is the dozen man march over so soon?? or are you on a laptop? make sure you tell ms baez and che guevera hey! for me.

 

[shanewalker]

NightHawk, you're being incredibly naive to think that the multi-billion dollar corporate infrastructures and businesses would instantly jump at the chance to either change from within or, more to the point, allow some other market entities the range of influence to push far-reaching change from their petroleum based business model.

Ever see "Tucker", a true story about an upstart auto maker who got absolutely squashed via corporate money/influence in the federal system...and that was the big 3 auto makers getting pissy over a competitor who just wanted front-wheel drive and seat belts?

There are several technologies with a long, documented research history behind them that could/should be WAY farther along had they not been stymied by the politics and greed of the big status-quo beneficiaries. I have a 1976 encyclopedia I stumbled across with an article on such, with a picture of a working GM hydrogen fuel cell prototype vehicle...hmmm, the perpetual "20 years off" rhetoric falls flat.

Problem has been the the American public have reverted from being progressive, forward-thinking, go-getters to fearful, rear-view mirror fixated conservative stalwarts...easily led to believe by the power players that anything other than what they've been selling for eighty years is fantasy.

I'm from the computer generation...we expect change, expect bona fide advancement, expect true progress on a Moore's law timetable. No excuse for the combustion engine industries. None. I can't stand the fact that my tax dollars go to protecting the business interests of these parasites. I'd much rather my money go toward something positive for our nation's future.

I can't wait until the old school mentality dies off...I just hope it isn't too late by then.

 

[VIPERS-PIT]

SO I am labeled a "right wing neo-con fundamentalist"

I am pro abortion
Anti death penlity
pro legalized marijana
pro seperation of church and state

BTW - I do NOT believe in "GOD" I am a pantheist

What part of this makes me a "extreme right winger"?

Yes im pro military and pro do what you say you are going to do - so I am pro Bush!

 

[dragon002]

SO I am labeled a "right wing neo-con fundamentalist"

I am pro abortion
Anti death penlity
pro legalized marijana
pro seperation of church and state

BTW - I do NOT believe in "GOD" I am a pantheist

What part of this makes me a "extreme right winger"?

Yes im pro military and pro do what you say you are going to do - so I am pro Bush!

wow eric, people can have different out looks and be friends on here, imagine that!!

i am anti abortion
pro death penalty
against legalizing drugs
the wall of seperation can be debated, the only thing the constitution mentions is , no state religion.

i firmly believe in god and am a Roman Catholic.

pro military, pro bush and pro america

ergen is an ass and the spaun of the devil......sorry, couldnt help myself, i was on a roll:devil:

so if me and eric cartman (sorry dude) can get along, we all can

 

[dragon002]

one more thing, hey haller how was the peace march down at the federal building??

yeah, you live around me in the pittsburgh area, channel 4 was reporting 2 or 3 dozen older ladies singing anti-war slogans

is that why you went home??

 

[NightHawk]

NightHawk, you're being incredibly naive to think that the multi-billion dollar corporate infrastructures and businesses would instantly jump at the chance to either change from within or, more to the point, allow some other market entities the range of influence to push far-reaching change from their petroleum based business model.

I just knew it. I considered pre-empting this argument in my last post but mistakingly didn't. When logic and reason reach conclusion it's time for the good ole conspiracy theories to be trotted out. I've heard them all. The secret 100 mpg carburetor, fuel cells, water powered batteries, acorn-powered engines, all kept closely guarded by the oil companies. Spare me.

 

[Bob Haller]

one more thing, hey haller how was the peace march down at the federal building??

yeah, you live around me in the pittsburgh area, channel 4 was reporting 2 or 3 dozen older ladies singing anti-war slogans

is that why you went home??

That wasnt the one I am attending its on the third year anniversary of this idiotic war... in oaklank. come out and meet me

I am anti abortion

I am anti death penalty, either way is murder and executing costs more.

I believe stongly in God and am a christian

 

[VIPERS-PIT]

That wasnt the one I am attending its on the third year anniversary of this idiotic war... in oaklank. come out and meet me

I am anti abortion

I am anti death penalty, either way is murder and executing costs more.

I believe strongly in God and am a christian

Your beliefs tend to be MORE conservative then mine are. So why am I an extreme Brian washed right wing wacko while you are a main stream moderate? Simply because my military background leads me to support the war on terror while you, with no military background (i am guessing) are against it.

Did you know that last year Year to date pre hurricane there were more people murdered in the city of New Orleans than US soldiers year to date in Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED!!! So I guess the quagmire bloodbath in Iraq is not as bad as you demand to portray it.

Iraq has been BY FAR the least casualty war in the history war-fair!!
Both of these are proven facts!!

What other "proof" do you have to demand a pull out that would be a PR disaster (what I truly believe is what you are after) and it would set back our world image more than 20 years, plus destabilize the middle east into not just an Iraqi civil war but an all out jihad on all non Muslims world-wide.

 

[dragon002]

That wasnt the one I am attending its on the third year anniversary of this idiotic war... in oaklank. come out and meet me

I am anti abortion

I am anti death penalty, either way is murder and executing costs more.

I believe stongly in God and am a christian

ahhh,

no bob i think ill pass. when mayor o'conner shows up (way too close to st pats day) with sheriff defazio and starts celebrating with the water cannon, tear gas and german sheppards. i want to be in good old Donora, 25 miles away.

bob , one more thing, www.warroom.com , learn something

 

[T2k]

yeah, maybe, but he was the better of two sub-par choices in 2000 and 2004

He didn't even win in 2000 - the SC illegally jumped on the issue and its Republican majority decided Bush should be the president. Clear violation of Constitution, let alone those tens of thousands whose vote was trashed or weren't even allowed to vote or were threatened in Florida, organized by ROve and the bro' down there.
The whole world was laughing when we tried to tell everybody that all those ugly things happened in a state which had a Gov who's just happended to be one of the competitors... ROFL, preposterous.
In 2004 the story was the same in Ohio - just read the final report of the official investigation about it, it's available in many forms (books, online etc).

 

[T2k]

SO I am labeled a "right wing neo-con fundamentalist"

I am pro abortion
Anti death penlity
pro legalized marijana
pro seperation of church and state

BTW - I do NOT believe in "GOD" I am a pantheist

What part of this makes me a "extreme right winger"?

Yes im pro military and pro do what you say you are going to do - so I am pro Bush!

It's very interesting; how can be a pro-choice, anti-dp, pro-drug, anti-evang. fundie person can vote for this Mighty Freak and his clear anti-abortion, pro death penalty, full-blown extreme evangelical fundamentalist stance?

Would you, please, shed some light for us?

 

[dragon002]

He didn't even win in 2000 - the SC illegally jumped on the issue and its Republican majority decided Bush should be the president. Clear violation of Constitution, let alone those tens of thousands whose vote was trashed or weren't even allowed to vote or were threatened in Florida, organized by ROve and the bro' down there.
The whole world was laughing when we tried to tell everybody that all those ugly things happened in a state which had a Gov who's just happended to be one of the competitors... ROFL, preposterous.
In 2004 the story was the same in Ohio - just read the final report of the official investigation about it, it's available in many forms (books, online etc).

you really would love touring the country with Howard "nut job" Dean. you are better than he is at spewing socialist democratic talking points , half truths and lies.

 

[T2k]

you really would love touring the country with Howard "nut job" Dean. you are better than he is at spewing socialist democratic talking points , half truths and lies.

Hehe, just as I expected: no rebuke, no arguments, only low-level personal attacks and some extra loath.
Are you guys all the same? Or it comes with a mental state?

 

[shanewalker]

I just knew it. I considered pre-empting this argument in my last post but mistakingly didn't. When logic and reason reach conclusion it's time for the good ole conspiracy theories to be trotted out. I've heard them all. The secret 100 mpg carburetor, fuel cells, water powered batteries, acorn-powered engines, all kept closely guarded by the oil companies. Spare me.

Not conspiracy theories, my friend. History. Commonly documented track records of large scale corporate behavior. Trust me, I'm no nut case or conspiracy theorist. I wish the facts didn't lay out such a map of past, present and predictable future human behavior (and that's all corporations are, a collective of human beings w/ all the drives and faults of any of us...w/ a mysterious legal precident set to make "it" a "being" w/ rights that confounds/bemuses even the most astute and long-in-the-tooth economists, when they are candid). Did Enron hold the benefit to the California energy consumer as their guiding principle in the push for deregulation of the electric grid and the establishment of their traders in the system? Hell...no. Check out "Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room" for a good education on what rampant amoral corporate greed and the interwoven government glad-handers currently in charge are all about. Again, matters of public record, from the Wall Street Journal to Fortune to whatever Anderson didn't shred, and the list goes on and on.

Never heard of acorn-powered engines (not sure how efficient that would be). I did notice that as soon as Bush mentioned ethanol in his State of the Union, GM wasted no time trotting out ads about their 'Yellow' fleet vehicles...but don't really address why they are purveyors of many of the least efficient vehicles out there. Coincidence? No , the shell game your heros play day-in/day-out. "Hey, don't read the fine print. Look how roooomy this quad cab is." And, more to the point, have you noticed that the MPG of the average vehicle on American roads has decreased something like 20% since the late 80s--I have heard of that, however, and it embarasses me. That's emblematic of your beloved "free" market saints, like those in the boardrooms of GM and ExxonMobil who are all about making progress their priority. Right. And people like you eat up their product and their BS excuses.

Spare me. Please. Some of us want America to be true leaders and that means being at the head of the pack in R&D and creating the renewable energy solutions that will drive the world economies in the decades to come. Some here, it seems, are content to let us live in some delusional (almost pathetically nostalgic) backwards mental state that will only leave us more vulnerable and farther behind when the world's energy systems/technologies change...and despite your witless "I ain't never heard a sucha thing, that's crazy talk", it will. I hope America will be home to the captains of those industries like it was the microchip, or we're fast on our way to seeing the end of our days as a superpower.

For my vote, I'd rather have a beer w/ a guy w/ real ideas and the spine to talk truth.

 

[Bob Haller]

Your beliefs tend to be MORE conservative then mine are. So why am I an extreme Brian washed right wing wacko while you are a main stream moderate? Simply because my military background leads me to support the war on terror while you, with no military background (i am guessing) are against it.

Did you know that last year Year to date pre hurricane there were more people murdered in the city of New Orleans than US soldiers year to date in Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED!!! So I guess the quagmire bloodbath in Iraq is not as bad as you demand to portray it.

Iraq has been BY FAR the least casualty war in the history war-fair!!
Both of these are proven facts!!

What other "proof" do you have to demand a pull out that would be a PR disaster (what I truly believe is what you are after) and it would set back our world image more than 20 years, plus destabilize the middle east into not just an Iraqi civil war but an all out jihad on all non Muslims world-wide.

Lets talk about all deaths since lots of innocent iraqis are dying too

you arguments against pulling out look like those used for vietnam, please note we lost and pulled out of vietnam.

vietnam is doing well today....

entire world didnt end....

 

[mperdue]

He didn't even win in 2000 - the SC illegally jumped on the issue and its Republican majority decided Bush should be the president. Clear violation of Constitution, let alone those tens of thousands whose vote was trashed or weren't even allowed to vote or were threatened in Florida, organized by ROve and the bro' down there.

I'm no fan of Bush but I really hate seeing this BS spouted all the time. There were four possible ways to recount the votes that were either requested by Gore or ordered by courts:

1) Gore requested recounts of all ballots in Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach and Volusia counties. If this had been done Bush would have won by 225 votes

2) Florida Supreme Court orders count of all undervotes statewide. Here Bush wins by 430 votes.

3) Florida Supreme Court order as implemented by the counties, some of whom refused and some counted overvotes as well as undervotes. Bush by 493 votes.

4) Recounts included from Volusia and Broward only. Bush wins by 537 votes.

Other counting methods that may have changed the outcome are moot because they were never requested nor ordered by anyone involved.

 

[T2k]

Your abortion standpoint has to look no further than Europe. They have legalized abortions over there. Have you ever been over there? No one smiles over there.

What's this enormous false Bullsh!t? You haven't been there, pal, that's for sure.
EU has its problems, they have their own share of crooked politics and everything else but generally speaking people live fine yet work less over there, the gap between poor and rich is way less, they don't have 45 million people without health coverage whatsoever like we do, do to their more relaxed schedule they spend more time with family, don't hear shootings on the street, they eat less sh*t than we do (I spend an arm and a leg each month on organic food to avoid the average commercial sh*t that slowly kills you), don't have to deal such retarded things like influence of evangelical mafia on EU politics etc etc.

They are in more turmoil as far as divorce and broken homes with children goes.

Jesus, what an idiotic crap. Apart from a bunch of young French Arabs torching their own neighborhood (even though their desparation is understandable, the way and course of their actions aren't) I have yet to see any evidence of it. Would you please provide some?
And if so, make sure it's at least reaches half of the size of 92 LA riots or back in time the Watts or other outbreaks here. (Not to mention that we have yet to see such a retarded ravaged security force in the EU that would set a bunch of its own kind on fire like we did in Waco...)

Who told you all these BS? Some countryside pastor or some newborn
evangelical fundie retard? It couldn't be further from truth.

BTW did you know that red states have more divorces etc than blue ones?
So much for your silly false info on the subject...

Abortion is not the Sole reason for this, but its a big FACTor.

No, it's not. This whole story you're trying to sell here about EU is simply BS, stupid FUD, usually spread by retarded non-Christian false "evangelist" propaganda. (No, these retarded sects have nothing common with Christ or Christianity at all.)

We are bad enough off with 36% of families with Children being broken homes.

Perhaps if we wouldn't incarcerate 1% of the country for nonviolent idiotic "crimes", it wouldn't be so bad...

And remember, the father has NO RIGHT to say anything about whether or not his wife or girlfriend gets an abortion. Is that fair?

Absolutely more fair than letting a psycho like you to have any word on the life of the girl you've just scrwed in your barn. Keep your f**kin pants on if you don't trust the mother's judgement. When you'll be able to carry out the baby, you can demand the right to make a decision about it, I promise you.

Veteran's pay and Military pay has never been higher. My brother is a Marine, and has been for 10 years. His rank has stayed the same and he got a huge pay raise in 2002 REMEMBER. And that is not a result of inflation. Get your facts straight.

Are you HIGH? Bush DID cut the vets' and widows' money, it's a fact.

 

[T2k]

Perhaps folks like dragon and eric, and those that share their political and ideological beliefs, or those who simply support Bush and the current GOP philosophy for some reason, can explain the following incongruities:

- Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's
daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him
and a bad guy when Bush Jr. needed one for a war.

- Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but
trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international
harmony.

- A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
corporations can make decisions affecting all citizens without regulation.

- Jesus loves everyone, yet shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary
Clinton.

- The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in
speeches while slashing veterans'benefits and combat pay.

- If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

- Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing
health care to all Americans is socialism.

- Global warming is junk science but creationism should be taught in schools.

- A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable
offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which
thousands die is solid defense policy.

- Government should limit itself to the powers named in the
Constitution, which should include banning gay marriage.

- The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but
George Bush's cocaine conviction is none of our business.

- Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're
a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our
prayers for your recovery.

- What Bill Clinton did in the 1960's is of vital national interest,
but what Bush did in the '80's is irrelevant.

It's very interesting to see that nobody answered anything meaningful yet...

 

[Peter Parker]

I'm no fan of Bush but I really hate seeing this BS spouted all the time. There were four possible ways to recount the votes that were either requested by Gore or ordered by courts:

1) Gore requested recounts of all ballots in Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach and Volusia counties. If this had been done Bush would have won by 225 votes

2) Florida Supreme Court orders count of all undervotes statewide. Here Bush wins by 430 votes.

3) Florida Supreme Court order as implemented by the counties, some of whom refused and some counted overvotes as well as undervotes. Bush by 493 votes.

4) Recounts included from Volusia and Broward only. Bush wins by 537 votes.

Other counting methods that may have changed the outcome are moot because they were never requested nor ordered by anyone involved.

I disagree. There was another method that was never tried---because neither party wanted it. That was to actually recount all of the votes statewide and give the victory to the winner.

it is amazing that so many do not see that as a "possible way to recount". As for it being "moot" well only if you think that who the pople mnay have wanted (and I don't sugest that I know who) is "moot."

Can it be done ina statewide election.? Why not? we just did it here in VA.

 

[mperdue]

I disagree. There was another method that was never tried---because neither party wanted it. That was to actually recount all of the votes statewide and give the victory to the winner.

it is amazing that so many do not see that as a "possible way to recount". As for it being "moot" well only if you think that who the pople mnay have wanted (and I don't sugest that I know who) is "moot."

As I said, there were ways to do the recount that could have changed the outcome but no one petitioned the court to consider those ways. The court has to answer to the counts brought before it. Gore didn't want the entire state recounted because the conventional wisdom at the time said he wouldn't pick up votes that way. Bush didn't want any recount that allowed them to redefine what was considered a valid vote and even though I don't like him, I see his point. That is the issue that the Supreme court decided on; you can't change the way votes are tallied after the fact.

If either candidate had cared what the people wanted they could have requested a full state recount. Neither did so, which makes it a moot point. Bush wanted the tally to stand and Gore wanted to cherry pick the counties to recount. As I see it, the SC made the only real decision it could under the circumstances.

Hopefully the fiasco will not occur again.