Video stutters/freezes

[MattG@DISH]

Where we do understand the situation is frustrating, and have submitted multiple reports regarding the issue, we have not received any updates on the situation, and nothing has been added to our "known channel issue" list. Sorry, I do wish I had better news

 

[DishSubLA]

First: Thanks Matt for the response. We love DIRT, but it is clear "they" are keeping DIRT in the dark. Not a good move Dish. This seems to affirm in my mind that Dish KNOWS about this problem and just doesn't want to talk about it because it happens SO OFTEN on SO MANY CHANNELS you can't miss it.

Second: Cornflakes, thanks. You said it well in your post. While I also see this problem a lot on the L.A. HD LIL's (because I watch a lot local news) and this is a good place for the engineers to start looking, I just want to make it clear to them that this problem exists on the national channel services such as Animal Planet, History and others I can't specifically recall (all HD), and SD Superstitions--at all hours of the day and night, which seems to confirm this is NOT limited to HD channels or a particular satellite since SD Superstations are NOT at 129 or 110.

I guess what I REALLY would like to know is if this affects DVR's only, as that might be a clue to the problem: perhaps software relating to HDD and playback. So, has anyone ever seen this problem on a NON-DVR box. I have not seen this problem on my NON-DVR ViP boxes that I have been using of late.

Any further info or experiences anyone has had with this problem, please post it here for the DIRT to possible forward.

Corflakes, please keep us posted with your situation and if should decide to leave Dish. And let us know if and what they offer to keep you.

 

[gdarwin]

Watching United Tastes of America on 9447 COOK on playback on the 922.... I'm getting tons of picture breakup and DD dropping into stereo. Very annoying...

 

[cornflakes]

Matt, thanks for the update. And just to be clear, I think you're doing a fine job and this frustration isn't directed at you.

My latest update is, I've resorted to ordering an OTA module for my 922 and I'm going to buy an antenna later on, and hopefully I can get a good signal for local channels OTA. That will at least buy me some time because while the stuttering happens on cable channels as well, it's a lot more frequent on the local channels. I really shouldn't have to spend 50 bucks to buy an OTA module plus another $30-50 for an antenna to receive channels that I already pay for, but whatever. Unfortunately I'm addicted to DIY Network and some other channels like BBC America, and other providers don't offer them in HD, so I'm trying hard to stick with Dish if I can.

 

[DishSubLA]

Cornflakes, you will like the added flexibility of the OTA module. Do keep in mind it will take up more room on the HDD because local broadcasters are using MPEG2. For what its worth, the PQ between Dish LA DMA HD LIL's and OTA is almost indistinguishable. Dish is doing a great job in that respect. The Dish LA DMA is just a touch ever so slightly softer, but one expects that when the data is decoded, then re-encoded for uplink. In fact, there is LESS breakup or pixeling due to fast movement via DISH. The picture sometimes breaks up on OTA.

Good luck, and let us know how the OTA goes.

 

[cornflakes]

DishSubLA, have you noticed any difference in the stuttering issue? I don't want to jinx it... I just came back from vacation a couple of days ago and last night was my first time watching TV in several days, and I only noticed stuttering maybe twice the entire night. So far today, I haven't seen it at all...

 

[DishSubLA]

I have noticed no improvement. Like you have said, I see it a lot on LA HD LIL's. However, it also still occurs on the nationals including History, NatGeo, and several others. The features of the Dish DVR's and awaiting the XiP keeps me a subscriber right now, but this problem is annoying in that it can occur at critical moments in a plot of what a character is saying. UUUHHHGGGG!! Let's stay tuned for improvements.

 

[3HaloODST]

I'll just chime in and say that I have noticed this on national channels on occasion. It hasn't happened quite enough to put me up in arms but as has been stated its pretty annoying when you're trying to hear someone say something, then it drops/freezes for a split sec and comes back, and you have to guess what they were saying during that moment. I definitely know it's not a signal issue on my end, and it happens on both of my 722ks. Using a 1000.2 with signal strengths of the following:

110 TP:
14: 78
15: 74
16: 78
21: 77

119 TP:
14: 72
15: 80
16: 84
21: 86

129 TP:
19: 56
20: 60
29: 59
30: 59

There are no obstructions (I recently cleared them out) and it happens on more than 1 channel.

Again it's not quite often enough for me to be up in arms about it, but seems to happen when it's least convenient, on the occasions it does happen. Heck, if it just happened during commercials, I wouldn't give a flip. It seems though that the commercials come in LOUD and clearly though...

 

[cornflakes]

So here's my latest update... I haven't used the OTA adapter yet because I haven't had a chance to go pick up an antenna, but it seems the stuttering problems are subsiding. Definitely a lot less frequent than before, and the occasional times it happens, it seems to be a very quick stutter in the audio that's hardly noticeable. I was able to watch two hours of America's Got Talent without it stuttering once (unless it happened during the commercials). So whatever Dish is doing, it's helping!

 

[TG2]

You're going to admit to America's Got Talent? Very brave...

... audio drop outs have been happening less for anything I've watched recently too ...

 

[DishSubLA]

Yes, I have also noticed this problem less. in the last 2 days, I was able to watch an entire local newscast WITHOUT the problem. Also my day or two old recordings from History had NO problems. I can't say it is completely fixed, but it is definitely better. I can't recall one instance all day Saturday, but I was glued to CNN and TWC and WPIX. I did have some HGTV recordings a day old that had no problems. So, getting better.

 

[TG2]

Out of curiosity did any one check out the channels they were seeing the problem on, and check out the daily/weekly satellite changes to see if maybe they moved those channels off one transponder to another? ... was wondering if they finally figured out the problem was a spot beam transponder and started rotating the channels out, or if it wasn't listed, it would suggest something else..

 

[cornflakes]

I haven't checked the transponders and spot beam numbers but I imagine if they did that, it would show up on the uplink reports.

Caught a few blips over the weekend but not major, quick stutters that were hardly noticeable.

 

[TG2]

You'd need to know the transponder they're on now .... to compare and see if they get moved.. or maybe if you had a list of channels it was happening to ... and see if a group of those channels moved in the past month or so between heavy stutter/freeze/glitch issues and the lighter side which it sounds like now.. tracking the data becomes a point of failure ... if you don't track it... you won't know why it changed or where to point the fingers..

 

[DishSubLA]

Keep in mind this problem happens across the constellations of both the Western and Eastern Arcs (multiple sats and xpndrs) standard def and HD. My feeling some time ago was that this is NOT a signal issue, but perhaps how the DVR's are handling the digital stream of files it lays down then reads on the HDD. I have NOT seen this problem on any of my NON-DVR boxes. It could be whatever method Dish is using during encoding.

Related to this is the every so slight jittery movement in video that was very apparent some months ago, then "fixed" but replaced by the current freeze stutter and skip of video and audio. Now, the last few weeks, I have seen for the first time in months the return of the old every so slight jittered video (like video not being sampled at quite a fast enough rate) for short periods. I do fell this is more than coincidence. I feel this is all about how the DVR's HDD is handing whatever scheme Dish is most likely pushing to the edge for best efficiency of bandwidth. I have observed how it looks like they are working on this on the fly trying to find the right balance, but never achieving it because it is either the old jitter or the new stutter, but occuring less these days.

However, I did have 2 TV's tuned to the same channel--both DVR units--and they both hiccuped at the same precise place at the same time with the now infamous stutter, freeze, skip video and audio losing about 3 seconds of action. I do believe Dish engineering are tinkering based upon my humble observations, but I don't really know that.

AGAIN, has anyone experienced this problem on a NON-DVR unit? That would be a great piece of information, but I'm betting on files streams and how the HDD and software on the DVR's are handling Dish's scheme.

Well keep posted. Other please keep us posted, as well.

 

[TG2]

I don't know.. I watch enough tv now.. I did hear the audio issue and see my AV receiver re-training .. but have, to date .. not seen a regular video freeze, stutter or anything else like that, *especially* with what's been linked to on youtube for examples...

There was a report about this happening on multiple DVR's in the same house.. which suggests it could've been switch and LNB related, but then others in the same DMA were seeing it.. so working backwards.. if in the same DMA and problems continue to get reported by multiples in one region ... it then stands that its that area (spot beam becomes a potential target)

At least that's what I'm getting from what I've read.. now if we had a real problem tracker (there he goes again) we could log these incidents, line them up with geo location info (rough, so as not to bring nutters to your doorstep) and then start matching up times, and other conditions.. *THEN* we'd really have something to take proof back to dish with .. otherwise its still a random assortment of reports.. and that's not even taking into account (again) how many dish customers *are* seeing it but not looking to outside web sources for help .. etc..

Hmmmmm .. Say Mr. Greczkowski is there a database that users here could start tracking things in? maybe make it available to the great god charlie and his minions? (and then too probably Directv's nutter's could use it for D's issues.) Something more formal than freeform posts (user, location, dvr, channel, sat info, date, time, conditions, problem description ... etc etc etc.) http://www.satelliteguys.us/member.php?u=1

 

[DishSubLA]

Let's be clear: it has been established this is NOT limited to spotbeams. SEVERAL national channels across multiple satellites on both arcs have this problem. Let's not go backward on this. This has happened on just about every channel and sat and on both arcs on both SD and HD. That is the place we are at and has been confirmed.

What would be very helpful is if anybody has seen this in NON-DVR boxes. Again, my bet is how the HDD's and associated software/hardware are handling Dish's scheme of the digital stream of files, designed to squeeze every last drop of bandwidth, no doubt, pushing it to the limit, and now we are seeing the limit. I've not seen the problem on my NON-DVR boxes.

 

[TG2]

What would be very helpful is if anybody has seen this in NON-DVR boxes. Again, my bet is how the HDD's and associated software/hardware are handling Dish's scheme of the digital stream of files, designed to squeeze every last drop of bandwidth, no doubt, pushing it to the limit, and now we are seeing the limit. I've not seen the problem on my NON-DVR boxes.

Well.. I could say its happened on my 211k .... its not a standard DVR unit .. although I have enabled the DVR function and do have an external drive attached which thereby turned it into a DVR. I've only caught it once or twice on that reciver, but that's also because I'm not routinely watching that receiver & tv set.

 

[cornflakes]

Ahhhh, it was too good to last! After a couple of weeks of minimal stutters, to the point where I kinda "forgot" about it, now it's back to how it used to be... and just in time for the new fall season too! During Prime Suspects, it did it at least 3 times. Dish! Whatever you did a few weeks ago, do it again!