VB Weekly: Re: BluRay, if the war is over, why are you fighting so hard?

[BobMurdoch]

OPINION: Battle of PR - 7/27/2007 - Video Business

Great article showing how BluRay is saying the war is over out of one side of its mouth, while paying for expensive exclusivity deals with Target and BJ's Wholesale Club to try and win the PR war....

Buried in the fine print... Target will still sell HD DVD media, but will feature only the one BluRay unit in exchange for a fee in the 4th quarter.

 

[mike123abc]

Reminds me of an old B rated movie... no matter how many times you try to kill Jason he keeps coming back to kill more.

 

[JoeSp]

Back in 1992 a company called Ryobi had the best cordless drill on the market. They had the top rated 12v (most power -- longest lasting battery). Dewalt wanted them out of the market so they went to both Lowe's and Home Depot and not only offered to front their endcaps for their respective power tool departments but they also offered to front 30 percent of all frontage in the department. That meant that each store would get thousands of dollars of fronted equipment to sell that payment would not be due to much further down the road then normal. Only catch, the Ryobi would have to be taken off the shelf.

In 1987 M$ offered to front (free product for 6 months - then due) 25% of productivity area in most brick and motar stores. (EB, Babbages, Walden Software, etc.) Only catch is Word Perfect and Lotus 123 would have to be turned sideways (companys pay alot for the front of software -- that is their advertising)

1998, John Deere enters into a 3 year agreement with Home Depot to sell riding lawnmowers providing 75% of frontage in riding mower department. Toro lasted 2 years with Lowe's and now John Deere has moved in there.

Guys, this is how business is done. The reason the BD crowd is doing this and the HD-DVD crowd is not is because the BD crowd is making money and is spending money to make more. The HD-DVD camp keeps lowering prices in hopes to upset BDs current run with the discs sales apple cart but it has not worked. BD discs sales continue to lead HD-DVD discs sales even with lower cost HD-DVD players and 5 to1 new title releases. The BD crowd is playing this just like the VHS crowd played their hand.

The products might change but the way of doing business and getting ahead does not. You get the lion's share of support, grease the right hands and continue to improve your product. Eventually you win.

 

[navychop]

"Only catch, the Ryobi would have to be taken off the shelf."

Err- not sure that's legal. Anyway, I bought my Ryobi 12v drill at HD, and Ryobi is on the shelf there today- I was looking at replacing my compound miter saw.

But yes, the gist is certainly correct. Business is war, you fight for any advantage you can get. Nice guys run little organic coffee shops. Until Starbucks moves in.

 

[JoeSp]

Actually, the way it is legal is you offer to front lots of space and then there is no shelf space for other products. Hence the demise of the TFD series of Ryobi drills. Now, Ridgid (sold only thru HD) and Ryobi are owned by the same company -- TTI. That is how Ryobi is back on HD's shelfs.

I guess the BD camp is making a big play this XMAS by getting some deals done with big retailers. The HD-DVD camp must move to block this. Having customers entering many differant retailers and primarily only seeing BD is not in HD-DVD's interest. I expect some deals done by the HD-DVD camp to be announced soon.

 

[BobMurdoch]

I'm still waiting on the Walmart announcements. A few million cheap HD DVD players might help tip the scales back to parity....

 

[navychop]

Except some reports say they're Blu-ray. Or both.

Can't sell players that can't play what people want to see.

 

[JoeSp]

I'm still waiting on the Walmart announcements. A few million cheap HD DVD players might help tip the scales back to parity....

Actually Bob, there is still alot of who, what and when to that story.. I believe Walmart has yet to announce the deal for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players although the Chinese manufacturers of those HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players has already made their announcement. The BluRay manufacturer is Funai who does alot of business already with Walmart (1 billion in 2006 alone). The target time was supposed to be this XMAS. Might not happen till 2008.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Heres what I still cannot understand.

Why would you want to own a expensive peice of equipment that will never get new releases from Sony pictures, Disney or Fox. Oh yeah, because you can get stuff from universal

 

[diogen]

Why would you want to own a expensive peice of equipment that will never get new releases from Sony...

Just like you said...

...two brick walls arguing. This can be argued over and over again.

Diogen.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Thats about specs, sales speculation and player potential. Its hard to ignore the availability of new releases when you lack studio support, thats fact.

Why own a player that has less studio support?

Not trying to start an argument, Im just looking at it from my point and view and would like some input from another. I bought my BR player to watch movies, just like someone who bought a HDDVD player.

Prime scenario is to own both, 2nd (to me) is a BR player, 3rd currently is HDDVD (IMHO).

 

[teachsac]

Thats about specs, sales speculation and player potential. Its hard to ignore the availability of new releases when you lack studio support, thats fact.

Why own a player that has less studio support?

Not trying to start an argument, Im just looking at it from my point and view and would like some input from another. I bought my BR player to watch movies, just like someone who bought a HDDVD player.

Prime scenario is to own both, 2nd (to me) is a BR player, 3rd currently is HDDVD (IMHO).

Owning both, my HDDVD collection outnumbers my BD collection 3:1. Movies are a personal preference. I prefer Universal's, Warner's, and Paramount's library over Sony, Fox, and Disney. Universal, without spending a lot of cash, has released some good movies this summer that are doing well at the box office. All original material. Illegal Tender, Bourne Ultimatum, and The Kingdom all look very good. Knocked up was well made and pretty hilarious. 5 of the top 8 movies are all sequels. The only Sony title I have that I thought was very good was "The pursuit of Happyness". Bought "premonition" and it has to be the absolute worst movie I have ever seen. Fox has a few titles I want but they were cancelled and who knows if they will be resceduled. I don't go by anything Josh says. HE has lost all credibility with me and even with the Blu-ray supporters at AVS. I have always bought format neutral releases from Warner and Paramount on HD-DVD, with PQ being equal, sound formats have not been. Whether Paramount lives up to their promise of including advanced audio remains to be seen. SInce TrueHD is not mandatory for BD, I see the most they do is DD+. The only Disney title I will most likely get is Pirates 3 to complete the collection. Not the best of the trilogy but my daughters liked it. Maybe Ratatouille. Good reviews, but not a blockbuster. Meet the Robinsons was not a good movie by any means and I won't purchase it just because it looks good.

S~

 

[diogen]

Not trying to start an argument...

But you did.
Not even a new one but beaten up so badly, it's hardly recognisible...

Diogen.

 

[gadgtfreek]

I guess it does come down to movies. Im not a large audio person(more into PQ), and probably never will be. A simple 5.1 HTIB is fine with me. But as with all early adopters, things are more important to us than Joe Blow anyways.

I try not to take any one persons reporting as the hand of god, and have not seen enough of Josh's stuff to have to much of an opinion. I can say though, that many of the guys at AVS are tools and so it would not surprise me if Josh was any different.

 

[gadgtfreek]

But you did.
Not even a new one but beaten up so badly, it's hardly recognisible...

Diogen.

Maybe not new to you, but its new to me and thats what matters as Im not here to make you happy.

 

[r.jones1116]

Thats about specs, sales speculation and player potential. Its hard to ignore the availability of new releases when you lack studio support, thats fact.

Why own a player that has less studio support?

Why own a player that's not capable of playing all the content on a disc?

 

[gadgtfreek]

Im the guy that votes "just give me the movie and forget the damn pip/fancy menus" in the polls people like to put up. I just want the movie and good PQ, I could care less if it had ANY extras. This is just another place where we differ.

Its great you guys have cool menus, but lack of studio support. The Toshiba's are movie player right? Not menu/pip players?

 

[r.jones1116]

Im the guy that votes "just give me the movie and forget the damn pip/fancy menus" in the polls people like to put up. I just want the movie and good PQ, I could care less if it had ANY extras. This is just another place where we differ.

Its great you guys have cool menus, but lack of studio support. The Toshiba's are movie player right? Not menu/pip players?

It's all part of the total HD experience. Just check out 300 on HDDVD.
It's a shame todays BD players can't take advantage of it. I guess that's the price you pay for rushing a product to market before it is complete.

 

[JoeSp]

First, Paramount is stepping up to BluRay in the audio department:

Blu-ray.com - Blu-ray News - Paramount Shifts Focus to Blu-ray

Second, the HD-DVD crowd has to be really reaching to say that Universals titles (most being releases from years ago) are better then even Sony's. Check the box office guys and while you are at it check the reviews of the actual movies themselves. There is a reason Universal has really dropped kicked big budget movies -- they are not making alot of money.

Third, most of the HT crowd are 5.1 listeners. The PCM 5.1 on BluRay does everthing anyone with a current HT could ever want. I have yet to read a review where the title has TrueDolbyHD and PCM did not do as well or was not considered better for its sound balance and reproduction. Besides ALL lossless codecs are unencoded to PCM before transfer to your receiver whether thru analog or HDMI. So PCM is very acceptable. Besides, anyone here who even tries to convince someone else that compressed anything is better then uncompressed is smoking something they should be sharing!

Fourth, check out the lastest discs sales, you guys posting here must be the only ones buying HD-DVD -- seems no one else is-- especially with that hugh standalone lead you guys got?

 

[r.jones1116]

You better check Amazon again

All three Toshiba HD DVD players are in the Top 10 "DVD Players" right now:

HD-A2 -----> #1

HD-A20 ----> #8

HD-XA2 ----> #9

300 (Combo HD DVD and Standard DVD) [HD DVD] # 2
Hot Fuzz [HD DVD] # 3
Planet Earth - The Complete BBC Series [HD DVD] # 4
Shaun of the Dead [HD DVD] # 8
The Bourne Identity [HD DVD] # 9
Shooter [HD DVD] # 10