Uplink Activity Wednesday, November 16th 2005

[goaliebob99]

Scott im with you on that.... Did you hear the news about d* lauching LIL's E*s got to get an ass moving in that dept as well as Chicago's on the list.. I would have figured we would have seen NYC, LA, and CHicago by now.. Atleast I got the ota So its not a real big deal to me.. but it would be nice to get cbs2 (wbbm) from chicago as there current dt chnl3 is unviewable by most in the chicago land area.

 

[rdinkel]

My 6000u just received a software upgrade this morning.

 

[mike123abc]

The broadcom chipsets in 6000/811/921/942 all support 8PSK turbo. But, they probably did not orginally program the box to run the chips in the mode they want to run them in now, hence the update. 8PSK with Turbo coding actually has better error correction than QPSK, the turbo coding is a better error correction method. This will allow them to cut back on the amount of error correction bits needed to provide the same error correction.

These chips are very flexible. There are a lot of modes that they can decode. Different symbol rates, different encodings (QPSK, 8PSK, etc), different amounts of error correction (1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 5/6, etc), and turbo vs traditional error correction algorythms. It is a huge list of possible modes, and each transponder can run a different setting. They probably did not put in a flexible enough software to handle all the possible configurations to start with.

 

[datwell]

Scott im with you on that.... Did you hear the news about d* lauching LIL's E*s got to get an ass moving in that dept as well as Chicago's on the list.. I would have figured we would have seen NYC, LA, and CHicago by now.. Atleast I got the ota So its not a real big deal to me.. but it would be nice to get cbs2 (wbbm) from chicago as there current dt chnl3 is unviewable by most in the chicago land area.

Yes. I have a similar problem in my area - OTA is very problematic at best for me.

C'mon Charlie, get us the Washington, DC HD locals - soon!

--Doug

 

[FreddyvsJasonvsAsh]

will these new channels be for everyone or only new customers? And there will be no need for new boxes?

 

[mdonnelly]

New channels are for those who sub to the appropriate packages.

Based on what was said at the Tech Forum Monday night, no new boxes required, yet.

 

[FreddyvsJasonvsAsh]

ok good

 

[Smith P.]

Dish did 'corrupt' system tables for prevent end-user receiver to sniff current testing.
No new content there - just mirror of current Voom channels.

 

[goaliebob99]

my question is what does dish have to hide that they have to corrupt the system tables so an end user, aka the tech freaks, cant see them. I myself am starting to seriously thinking about jumping ship with D*'s announcment of hd locals.. expecally here in chicago. the onlything that keeps me from doing it is my 942. (cant part with it yet). Dish really hasnt given us hard answers yet. other than "mpg4 encoding technology isnt there, so were going to use the technologys that work for us" Why would they uplink voom's 21 channels (or appear to uplink in our case) and piss off a bunch of coustomers that will ultimatly jump ship becase of the lack of hd. I commend dish for being the leader in hd. But it doesnt make sence. My only thought is that Voom 21 (the additions) hasnt started to deliver the content to dish and thats why were seeing the mirror of the current voom channels. maybe there warming up the tp's. But why hide it? why hide the modulation aspects of it? Unless there afraid of D* trolls stealing there ideas to be more competative. If mpg4 is truely not giving the compression ratio's that they would have liked to see. Why are they releasing mpg4 recivers at the end of the month??? Why not stock pile them untill the compression rates are ready? then mass release them. Is it just a bunch of smoke and mirrors???? I think dish is up to something.. Wether its good for the consumer or not will be determined. Lets get some hd up for the holidays IE before nov 24th.. go kick dolans Butt if you have to, to get him to deliver the content I'm tired of my hdtv not getting what it deserves.. My HDTV is hungry dammit... :

 

[CJPC]

Ill be glad to take that 942 from you, gratis of course.

I do think your right that they dont have the rest of the 21 (ie Rainbow media or whatever there calling themselves dont have it done up) so there putting mirrored data up there. However the corrupt system tables, im going that 99.999% its against hackers, so they can not see any new programming yet, cant wait to see what E* has in store for em!

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

As I mentioned in the pub area, Dish feels MPEG4 is not ready, the receivers are but the encoders have a way to go. Dish wants to start putting MPEG4 hardware out there to new customers so they can avoid for having to upgrade them in 6 months.

This is a smart move on Dish Network's part.

As I mentioned a few months ago, Charlie had a few tricks up his sleeve, and this is just one of them.

Dish does not care about the tech freeks, it is not why they put this stuff up there. At the moment they are testing out the new uplink encoders and satellite which they have just took control of. Rome was not built in a day.

Good stuff IS coming. This I can say for sure.

Also one more word on "tech freaks" I find it great that we are able to get the info we get via these uplink reports, try doing a uplink report to changes at DirecTV.

Hang tight as I said before good stuff is on it's way.

And oh BTW since actual HD signals are being broadcast on all of these HD channels, I think it is safe to say that we can ignore the "must get MPEG4..." message seen on another site. To me, getting a bunch of new HD channels fro mDish without having to upgrade all my HD equipment is a great holiday gift from Charlie.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Ill be glad to take that 942 from you, gratis of course.

I do think your right that they dont have the rest of the 21 (ie Rainbow media or whatever there calling themselves dont have it done up) so there putting mirrored data up there. However the corrupt system tables, im going that 99.999% its against hackers, so they can not see any new programming yet, cant wait to see what E* has in store for em!

I don't even believe that is the reason they are doing it, I believe the reason is because they are firing up and programming all new equipment to get this done.

If you remember the same sorts of things were done when they fired up 105 and even 129.

 

[SummitAdvantageRetailer]

As I mentioned in the pub area, Dish feels MPEG4 is not ready, the receivers are but the encoders have a way to go. Dish wants to start putting MPEG4 hardware out there to new customers so they can avoid for having to upgrade them in 6 months.

This is a smart move on Dish Network's part.

As I mentioned a few months ago, Charlie had a few tricks up his sleeve, and this is just one of them.

Dish does not care about the tech freeks, it is not why they put this stuff up there. At the moment they are testing out the new uplink encoders and satellite which they have just took control of. Rome was not built in a day.

Good stuff IS coming. This I can say for sure.

Also one more word on "tech freaks" I find it great that we are able to get the info we get via these uplink reports, try doing a uplink report to changes at DirecTV.

Hang tight as I said before good stuff is on it's way.

And oh BTW since actual HD signals are being broadcast on all of these HD channels, I think it is safe to say that we can ignore the "must get MPEG4..." message seen on another site. To me, getting a bunch of new HD channels fro mDish without having to upgrade all my HD equipment is a great holiday gift from Charlie.

A little bit OT, but WHY is it that it's hard to get uplink change reports on D*? I see no uplink change info AT ALL on the D* forums.

 

[goaliebob99]

I can understand the putting of mpg4 recivers in new coustomers homes.. it makes sence.. You would think that 61.5 (rainbow 1) has been tested (getting that info from rainbow shouldnt be hard) and 129 has been tested allready. as both of these sats have had voom on them for sometime now. I dont think that the corruption of system tables if to prevent hacking. Hackers dont look at the system tables to get there programming as the system table tell them nothing on how to hack there system to get free programming. Look at D* and how its been hacked for years I do agree that good stuff is on its way.. Im just curious why dish has gone the route with the corruption of the system tables. Im glad to see that dish is testing. What ever gets me more hd!

 

[goaliebob99]

A little bit OT, but WHY is it that it's hard to get uplink change reports on D*? I see no uplink change info AT ALL on the D* forums.

D*'s encoding is way diffrent than E*'s there are no recivers (other than the ones made by D*'s affiliates that can see D*'s channels.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

There not corrupting the tables, they are making it so the new equipment works properly and then they are programming and retuning them to the correct formats.

It's like when you buy a new computer, you turn it on and its just the basics.

You then need to load the software and change the settings so it works with how you are use to working.

 

[SummitAdvantageRetailer]

Perhaps the current uplinks are designed to work with the supposed new software to be released for the HD receivers and when tested fully (or not as in the case of 921's), they'll release it! Who else knows about this new software to be released that'll decode these channels differently than now? I guess the 942 and maybe even the 6000 got the required software update already so the 921's and 811's are next?

 

[goaliebob99]

I see what you mean scott... that they are programming the uplink equipment at the uplink centers to work correctly... for these transponders.. (right?)

 

[John Kotches]

If mpg4 is truely not giving the compression ratio's that they would have liked to see. Why are they releasing mpg4 recivers at the end of the month???

Every mpeg-4 capable receiver they put in the field now is one less mpeg-4 receiver they have to deal with later. Stop thinking short term, immediate gratification and start thinking of long term, large scale and maybe you'll understand this decision. This is a prudent business decision whether you like it or not.

MPEG-4 real time is a much different ball game than MPEG-4 where you have the luxury of crunching the frames down. 10:1 offline (that's 10 hours for each hour of input) encoders can get the gains E* is looking for, but that's not what they want, so they aren't going to swap in the encoders. Enabling 8PSK turbo mode nets them 30% overnight with just a software upgrade. Why is this a negative? Then, when the realtime MPEG-4 encoders are up to snuff, they get yet another gain. What that is, is smart business practice.

On the other side, you have Rupert who's spent big bucks buying current generation realtime MPEG-4 encoders now, and he'll have to buy the hardware again, or worse, upgrade the software on the fly assuming the software is upgradable.

Charlie Ergen is many things, but stupid isn't on the list. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually got a handful of test MPEG-4 encoders provisionally and if they couldn't meet the required compression levels they weren't obligated to purchase the test encoders.

But that's just me and my opinion...

Cheers,

 

[goaliebob99]

One thing that alot of people dont realize is that dish is allready using 8psk code for its hd channels. (I think the reason why were getting this software upgrade is for 8 psk turbo witch has not been tryed yet) the thing that got me was why put it in the system tablels that the channels are in qpsk when there really not? It makes sence for dish to put those channels like that while they configure equipment like scott said. I understand the long term analysis on this and why its good to do it (mpg4 recivers) but from a current coustomers standpoint... dish has not taken care of its current coustomers (look at the 921 system as an example and how people got ripped off with that boat anchor.) The outlook has allways been New coustomers for dish. Not that theres anything wrong with that, but take care of your current coustomers as they will take care of you. I would have to dis agree with you on the point about Ergen You obvously havent seen him on a charley Chats ..